Chapter 20, The Power of Music - Discussion

[nsaplay78]

thats the first time they have ever written it like that. No one who didnt know about it in advance would read it that way after how things have always been done in the past. I would have set aside more space and saved up more goods if Id known I was gonna need all that already. Annoying. Thanks for the info

 

[Yogi Dave]

There was a lot of complains in the beta forum with hopes of getting the wording changed a few places, but nothing happened.

 

[Lelanya]

Also Nsaplay, I have not done this myself, but read all of the feedback threads; once the ensembles are used up, they do not have to be connected to the portal to count in the total. So the old ones can be teleported, then brought out and placed in a random corner, like where your FA shanty town is after the thing is over, if that helps.

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week 5. I have reached the Harmony Grove upgrades, so using resources now to upgrade to lvl 4 to meet quest 76 later on, and to maximise portal profit returns, to reduce the mana needed. I am probably a little bit on hold for research progression now, as I focus my resources on Ensembles and Harmony Grove upgrades over research.



When I get close to being able to build an ensemble, I am using time instants to get more Ascended Goods trades through the merchant, because they take a long time to clear. What is good is going top of spire rewards you with 5hr and 1hr time instants, which match the 6 hr Merchant trade times.

I have needed to more carefully balance production now between Unurium, Seeds, Mana and Ascended goods. Tree of Enlightenment is lvl 7. I could really do with an event now, so my Temple of Spirits will earn Unurium for the event currency pickups.

I am on quest 52, and I'm saving Unurium for another mfg upgrade, but also need to use Unurium to produce Ascended Goods so I can build the ensembles needed to upgrade the Harmony Grove to lvl 3 and 4. It is a balancing act. I put in 10 Broken Dragon Statues producing Unurium last week (removing five Happy Forest Homes that produce seeds), but have teleported two of those out recently to make room for the Ensembles.


I went into negative population for a while, but earlier today teleported out my Basic and Refined Sentient producers so I could upgrade my Precious Sentient mfg, to satisfy the current quest. With Timewarp 32 and Vortex of Storage 31 boosting my Sentient production, I will be fine to only use Precious Sentient producers for a while.

City layout now


Production per day
38,000 Orcs
689,100 Mana
276,724 Seeds
246,127 Unurium

 

[Yogi Dave]

These ideas may be academic by now, but thought I'd pass them on anyway and hope they can be useful to you or others

I am using time instants to get more Ascended Goods trades through the merchant, because they take a long time to clear.

Trading: If there is someone in your FS or someone you know in the game who produces the Ascended goods you need, setup a time when you can place the trades and have them taken immediately. That has worked well in my FS. Also, during or just before that time if you have the Storm Phoenix in inventory, you can place it, feed it and use time instants to craft the goods needed for the rapid trading. Of course, you will have needed to build up the other goods you will need so you don't have more than a day's decay on your Ascended goods. Then teleport the Storm for another rainy day.

With Timewarp 32 and Vortex of Storage 31 boosting my Sentient production, I will be fine to only use Precious Sentient producers for a while.

AWs: Looking at your city, I noticed you don't have the Elvenar Trade Center. Even at level 1 it would increase the power of MM spells by 56% from 50% to 57.5%. That is assuming you have enough of those spells to keep your goods production high. With a trading partner, you don't need many for that burst of goods. It also increases the duration of the spells, but with a trading partner or use time instants, the duration doesn't much matter. Also, you don't have the Dragon Abbey which would allow you to get instant mana. At level 1 it gives mana equal to 6 times the number of completed provs per spell used. This works well if you have an excess of spells.

EDIT: Fixed about amount of help ETC gives. I wish I was correct.

 

[Pheryll]

EDIT: Fixed about amount of help ETC gives. I wish I was correct.

Yeah, Elvenar often likes to present bonuses in an inflated form, perhaps to get people excited about taking them. The 7.5% added to the 50% base of the spell, is a mere 5% of the total production. Thus, at level 30, you are looking at only an increase of a third of the total production, which is way less than the 57.5% that is advertised at level 1. Still it is much better than the way a level 1 time warp is presented as giving a 124% boost, when the level 30 ends up being only a 25% increase to the total production, assuming enough relics to give a full boost.

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week 6.
I do have the Elvenar Trade Center on my list of useful wonders that I'll build in the future, but for now my focus is on maximising the Tree of Enlightenment (Ascended boost), Temple of Spirits (Unurium) and Sunset Towers (Seeds). I will likely finish upgrading the Thermal Spring of Youth (population) too before building more wonders. As a seed producer ETC needs to be on lvl 19 to be as strong on a per tile per hour basis as Festival Merchants, but the other benefit is of course the Magical Manufacturing bonus strength and duration increase.

I also have the Dragon Abbey of potential future wonders, but even at 630 completed provinces (ready for quest 74), it will need to be at lvl 28 for me if I only apply 3 spells per day (1 each for the Ascended Mfgs at present). That would return 146 Mana per tile per hour, compared to Lunar Factory 146 per tile per hour. If I also add 3 Ensorcelled Endowments per day Dragon Abbey needs strength 19, which you get on lvl 12, so more manageable.

I bought two premium expansions from the 20% Cyber Monday special which I had been saving up diamonds for.

City layout now is in link and below. I created the gap in the middle today ready to teleport out a Festival Merchant and place back in my Steel Mfg to upgrade it to lvl 34 once I have saved the needed 1.8mill Mana.


Research now


I did focus on producing the ensembles and upgrading the Harmony Grove, but have backfilled open research and progressed a little since then. With the Harmony Grove now at lvl 3, I have enough Portal Profits to finish the chapter, so focusing on advancing in research again, and I am aiming for the next Main Hall upgrade first. I am prioritising research over Harmony Grove upgrades now, because even if I could produce the songs quicker (3hrs instead of 4hrs), my limitation is currently KP for the research.

I have gone back to finish some earlier research with the future introduction of the Cauldron. I had skipped the premium research in Ch15 and 16, the Wonders in 16 and 17. I have filled the KP and will at least complete the premium research in Ch15 as soon as the Cauldron goes live or if it suits the quest in the next event. The Wonders might wait until I finish Ch20.

Looking forward to the Winter event, so my Temple of Spirits will create more Unurium from event pickups. I added two more Broken Dragon Statues (Unurium) and removed some Happy Forest Homes (Seeds). I added more Ch20 Festival Merchants when I got them through the Magic Academy. I also added in some Mana buildings to help get the 2.8mill needed for Harmony Grove 3. I used some temporary lvl 1 workshops to help finish quest 54. I am on quest 64 now.

Production per day
38,000 Orcs
891,100 Mana
228,324 Seeds
264,751 Unurium

Hoping to finish before the New Year.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I also have the Dragon Abbey of potential future wonders, but even at 630 completed provinces (ready for quest 74), it will need to be at lvl 28 for me if I only apply 3 spells per day (1 each for the Ascended Mfgs at present). That would return 146 Mana per tile per hour, compared to Lunar Factory 146 per tile per hour. If I also add 3 Ensorcelled Endowments per day Dragon Abbey needs strength 19, which you get on lvl 12, so more manageable.

Why think of applying the spells each day, especially the PoP spells? Since you have enough to do use them each day, just use them when you need the mana that day and avoid the decay. The whole point of the DA is instant mana. My workshops, when I need mana really get spelled, sometimes a month or more (I only have 3 placed). I know some people who have 1/2 a year on them. Others have some of their best cult. builds spelled like that also. As you mentioned you need massive amounts of to upgrade your Harmony Groves and will need that for your MH too. Of course, it will take a while to get it to higher levels. With your 630 provs, each rune upgrade increases the mana per spell by 3780. So, I can understand holding off a bit if you don't have thousands of spells you can use.

 

[iamthouth]

@Yogi Dave Yes, I acknowledge that point. The numbers provided were 1. because it is about what I apply in my gaming, and 2. to provide a comparison by tile per hour. Regardless of whether I do it gradually or all at once for Ensorcelled Endowment, then none, the tile per hour comparison is valid over time. The reduced mana decay is of course a plus. The PoP spells expire after 10 hrs, the Magical Manufacturing after 13hrs, so I don't have them going at night. As I said, Dragon Abbey is on my list of future wonders to build and upgrade, but possibly after the ETC.

If I place my inventory of mana producing buildings, I can double my mana production to 1,567,000 per day, much of that being the 48 hr Lava Eggs.

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week 7.
I took the advice from @Lelanya, @vermp, @Yogi Dave and @Enevhar Aldarion earlier in this thread and teleported out my nine ensembles now that my Harmony Grove is Lvl 3, and I only produce Songs, using portal profits for all Bars. I produce the tree song options equally to balance the inputs, as I have six of each maker.

Removing the ensembles greatly increased the amount of space I had, so I could place back in from my inventory many mana producers to prepare for upgrading the Main Hall as soon as I finished that research. I should have teleported out those 9 ensembles as soon as I had upgraded the Harmony Grove.

After upgrading Main Hall to lvl 45 using 3.8m Mana, I used 750K Mana for Temple of Spirits to Lvl 13, and 700K Mana for Tree of Enlightenment to Lvl 10. I also need 1.8mill mana per Basic Mfg upgrade, I have 5+1+1, which I am working through now.

I also placed a further four Broken Dragon Statues to save up for the 300K Unurium needed for the Main Hall upgrade, which is now done. I am now using Unurium to produce Ascended goods and will later upgrade my four Gem Mfgs. I just finished researching Married Forest Homes, which are better Unurium producers per tile per hour, but take 3 more tiles, so will assess how I can fit them in my city instead.

As discussed before, this chapter is proving to be a balancing act between competing resource production within the limited city space.

I also placed and fed my Ch19 Ashen Phoenix in my city ahead of the event, so I could get the boosted Event Currency. I immediately upgraded it to Ch20 with Royal Restoration and evolved it to Stage 7, which is what I had Artifacts for. It is also a decent though not great Mana producer.

I used a Tome of Spooky Artifacts from the Sorceries tab in my Inventory to make a Witch Doctor Artifact, so I could evolve it from Stage 9 to Stage 10. That also increases my Mana production. I should have done that earlier, but kept forgetting.

I used some more coin instants to hurry along the KP requirements, but I'm nearly all out now. I produce them in the Magic Academy when I see them. KP is a limiting factor for me now. I do 15 provinces 6 deep for 4050 points and 135 KP each week in Tournament, so not as deep as some players for KP. My Tome of Secrets Lvl 32 gives me 7 KP per day, Panda Master 2, Carting Library 3, Ferris Wheel 1, and occasional other sources like Glory of the Nimble, Magic Academy, Genie, Goddess of Wishes or neighbour visits.

I also used Supplies instants, then with my Lvl 31 Blooming Trader bought goods from the wholesaler, trade for my boosts, and then use boosted goods to buy more KP. But the goods I only buy once per day, as they increase in cost by 50% for 24hrs each time you buy. I really just want to finish the chapter now.

Based on song production this will take another 18 days, but I can hurry those with time instants. Based on KP production this will take another 17 days, hence the KP purchases using all possible means.

I am on quest 68.

Production per day
38,000 Orcs
1,312,700 Mana
228,324 Seeds
283,375 Unurium

Research


City Layout (roads, seeds, mana, population)

 

[iamthouth]

Starting week 8.

I am on quest 76.


I continued with KP purchases as soon as I had the Ascended goods needed to progress research. I have not completed the final research Scout's Tavern, and I am stopping Song production with 5 left to do until I reach quest 79. I may produce them but not claim them, but that is more risky if I mis-click.



I also had to hold back from completing tournament early for the KP, to keep pace with the quest from the event. I have now caught up to the daily event quest release.

I have commenced the Basic Mfg Upgrades to progress through the quests, upgrading my Planks Ascended first, then one Marble Standard, and finally from the inventory put back in my Steel Sentient and upgraded that.

I built 3 more ensembles, and placed back in my original 9 ensembles for quest 68. This then let me complete quest 70, after which I removed my makers having made all I need, which gave me space for the final 6 ensembles. I have two more ensembles to go. That will then allow upgrade of Harmony Grove to lvl 4 for quest 76. It is then straightforward to the finish.

City Layout, with room for 2 more 5x5 Drum Ensembles where the Lvl 1 workshops are.



I haven't yet upgraded my Gem Standard Mfgs, as I didn't want to remove other seed, mana or unurium producing buildings to make space to turn them for their changing orientation.

I also haven't placed any Married Forest Homes even though they are better per tile per hour than the Dragon Statues, as I couldn't integrate them efficiently given they take an extra three tiles as 6x3 instead of 5x3.

I am working on the Runes for Tree of Enlightenment to upgrade to lvl 11 and beyond. Earlier today I changed my Trader production from Unurium to Seeds. I have enough Mana for the Harmony Grove Lvl 4 upgrade, but need Ascended Goods for the ensembles first, which will take a few more days, as I've exhausted my time instants.

Production per day;
38,000 Orcs
1,312,700 Mana
282,568 Seeds
125,065 Unurium

I will do one final post here once all research and quests are done. If you have questions after that, feel free to add @ in front of my name, which will give me a notification.

I will be posting in the Chapter 21 thread once that chapter is released.

 

[iamthouth]

Ch20 done, all research, all quests.
Started 26th Oct, done today 18/12, so just under two months.
I did push fairly aggressively to get through, exhausting gold and time instants, most of portal profits, buying KP with coins and goods etc, as it was the last chapter.

It was a balancing act though on resources, I did use teleports readily to change buildings in and out to suit.

I have gone back and completed more skipped research in earlier chapters in preparation of the Cauldron. I have 3 more Marble Mfgs and 2 more Gem Mfgs to upgrade from 33 to 34 as soon as the builder is free again. Will focus on Ancient Wonders and preparing for whatever Ch21 will be now. I will build some more Ascended Mfgs to put into storage as I suspect the next chapter will use Ascended Goods heavily again.

6 of each maker was very useful once I could upgrade the Harmony Grove, but 3-4 should be enough, others are getting through with less. Will save lots of seeds to not use so many makers.

I have commenced upgrading all my roads to Ritual Roads, nearly done.

I am also taking @Yogi Dave 's advice and saving up all my Vision Vapor now, to use in Ch21.

This chapter was enjoyable and much faster than Ch19 thankfully. I have also reached a goal I set very early on, to reach the end of the last chapter. When I started in Aug 2018, chapter 13 had just been released, but I got there in the end.

 

[Henroo]

I am still working chapter 19 and have a good ways to go there. But looking ahead, I see the first tech advance of ch 20 is Advanced Scouts. It has been a long time since they gave us one of those. I was wondering how much impact on scout times it had?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am still working chapter 19 and have a good ways to go there. But looking ahead, I see the first tech advance of ch 20 is Advanced Scouts. It has been a long time since they gave us one of those. I was wondering how much impact on scout times it had?

Same 25% reduction as all the ones in previous chapters.

 

[Henroo]

Same 25% reduction as all the ones in previous chapters.

25% is the reduction to cost. I don't think that directly correlates to a 25% decrease in how long it takes to scout a province. The change in scout time is what I was asking about.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

25% is the reduction to cost. I don't think that directly correlates to a 25% decrease in how long it takes to scout a province. The change in scout time is what I was asking about.

Yes, it does.

 

[Henroo]

Yes, it does.

I knew scouting cost determined difficulty. I didn't realize it was also a direct ratio between cost and scouting time. Thanks!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I knew scouting cost determined difficulty. I didn't realize it was also a direct ratio between cost and scouting time. Thanks!

Yep. Advanced Scouts has always reduced cost and scout time for un-scouted provinces by 25%.

 

[DaGrizz]

So what do we do with all the ensembles once the Harmony Grove is sold?

 

[mikeledo]

I teleported mine to disintegrate.