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    Your Elvenar Team

News City movement

Genefer

Member
What really peeves me is the lack of response from Elvenar. It appears as though no one of influence reads the threads or player satisfaction is not a concern - I am inclined toward the second.
 

free-spirit

Well-Known Member
i dont even care what the excuses are anymore. they KNOW there are lots of us stranded in dead areas and that we've been here too long. as in, months on end. FIX IT.

i mean, really… why try to force a "center" at all? randomize the gaps. surely the number of dead boosts is proportional to live people playing the others so you can scatter them evenly.
There will always be an edge though, the world map does not wrap - it's a giant rectangle. I'm sure reprogramming it to wrap would be a ton of work that the developers won't be willing to do, and also is likely to break all sorts of other things. A good percentage of players have to be on the edge or close to it just based on simple math.

I spent the first 5 years playing Elvenar with almost no active neighbors. It isn't the end of the world, just find a good FS.
 

ed1960

Buddy member #3, EAA
There will always be an edge though, the world map does not wrap - it's a giant rectangle. I'm sure reprogramming it to wrap would be a ton of work that the developers won't be willing to do, and also is likely to break all sorts of other things. A good percentage of players have to be on the edge or close to it just based on simple math.

I spent the first 5 years playing Elvenar with almost no active neighbors. It isn't the end of the world, just find a good FS.
Agreed, I am very near the egde and every ring I expand just increases the goldmines, but my FS and the ones before it have been great and allowed me to grow and be great.

Would I like to be in a more active zone sure but it wont change how I play

Ed
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
What really peeves me is the lack of response from Elvenar. It appears as though no one of influence reads the threads or player satisfaction is not a concern - I am inclined toward the second.
Inno doesn't read these threads. Inno doesn't want honest player opinion surveys. This isn't like Smite, LoL, WoW, or those sorts of games whose sheer responsiveness to their player communities has lead to games that the players are totally dedicated to which leads to a ton of revenue for them.

If you haven't been moved and are counting more than 25 gold mines, you might try putting in a support ticket.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Also, just a reminder that in the current system, brand-new cities take precedence over older, bigger cities. New cities are made seven days a week and as soon as one is created, it is given the first empty spot out from the center of the world map. The old, and probably still current, rules for deletion of small inactive cities is any city not yet in chapter 4, and where the player has never spent diamonds, is auto-deleted after 30 days of inactivity, though sometimes it seems a lot less than 30 days. But regardless, for example, if that little dead city in the 10th ring from center meets those requirements on a Sunday, it is gone, and then replaced by the next new city created. Spots like that are not held until Monday and then removed and replaced by a bigger city, because this system is all automated/programmed this way. The Monday movements require bigger, older cities to go inactive, for however much longer than 30 days, before they are marked for archiving to the edges of the settled area of the map, or maybe deletion, if they are past chapter 3, but still never spent diamonds. I know it is not deletion yet for diamond spenders, because I have a small city in chapter 6 that I have not logged into in maybe a year, but spent diamonds in, and it has not been deleted yet.
 

Genefer

Member
Given the number of players that are satisfied playing within their Fellowship not bothering with their neighbors, perhaps the developers could add the option to choose - yes - I want neighbors or no - my fellowship is all I need. If all the players who have neighbors but have no interest in neighborly help relationships with their neighbors chose to forfeit that game feature the issue would be resolved, because reading in this forum there are more players who are just fine with their fellowship than there are those who want/need neighbors. Assuming they are truly willing to give up their trading partners & the neighborly help they receive.
The old, and probably still current, rules for deletion of small inactive cities is any city not yet in chapter 4, and where the player has never spent diamonds, is auto-deleted after 30 days of inactivity, though sometimes it seems a lot less than 30 days. But regardless, for example, if that little dead city in the 10th ring from center meets those requirements on a Sunday, it is gone, and then replaced by the next new city created.

hmmm - I just chose a random "neighbor" according to ElvenStats the city is chapter in 2 and the account was created over 3 years ago and is still a chapter 2 city. This city is in the "active" map. Does that mean if a city purchases 500 Diamonds, they will remain in the active map forever? What about cities that spend thousands on Diamonds? Given this is not a one-off example among my "neighbors" it is clear that this information is also inaccurate.

There are many assertions of how city placement is determined, but none of them hold true, so where is this information derived?
 

ed1960

Buddy member #3, EAA
There are many assertions of how city placement is determined, but none of them hold true, so where is this information derived?
The information was from many sources but the most recent was the CM Helya, and that info was to have come from the Dev team, however, one can assume that only a limited level of information may have been provided for sharing.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Considering the number of inactive players - many ranging from months to years - on my explored map,
That's probably generally true, but there are some problems with it. What we think of as inactive and what Inno thinks of as inactive are not the same thing. Someone might be playing once a month, but ignores events, never returns help and never takes or offers trades that you see. To you they seem inactive but unless you are checking the growth pattern of their city, you can't really be sure, and doing that for all of your neighbours is a lot of work.
 

ed1960

Buddy member #3, EAA
That's probably generally true, but there are some problems with it. What we think of as inactive and what Inno thinks of as inactive are not the same thing. Someone might be playing once a month, but ignores events, never returns help and never takes or offers trades that you see. To you they seem inactive but unless you are checking the growth pattern of their city, you can't really be sure, and doing that for all of your neighbours is a lot of work.
Actually If I remember correctly Helya said if they just login to the account, so I you have several dead cities on your account and one you play none would get dropped.

Ed
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
hmmm - I just chose a random "neighbor" according to ElvenStats the city is chapter in 2 and the account was created over 3 years ago and is still a chapter 2 city. This city is in the "active" map. Does that mean if a city purchases 500 Diamonds, they will remain in the active map forever? What about cities that spend thousands on Diamonds? Given this is not a one-off example among my "neighbors" it is clear that this information is also inaccurate.

There are many assertions of how city placement is determined, but none of them hold true, so where is this information derived?
If they own diamonds they paid for, or have a building they spent diamonds on, then Inno may feel they have a financial obligation to them. Hoepfully they are moved to the edge, but deleting their city without a request puts them in grey area as to whether they have provided value for money. Thare are also side cases, though probably not enough to be a big factor. For several years I had one of Jack Luyt's cities near me that was non-participatory, but I assume he was logging in occasionally to check things. As long as their criteria is only monthly log in, there could be any number of people logging in occasionally but not doing anything that you notice.

You also have to be cautious about makijng assumptions with Elvenstats. You need to refresh to player, becuase Elvenstats only automatically updates players who participate int he tournament. If osmeone is growing slowly but steadily but not doing tournaments, Elvenstats may not look at them.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Actually If I remember correctly Helya said if they just login to the account, so I you have several dead cities on your account and one you play none would get dropped.

Yep, that is what Helya said: frequency of logging into the city is all that is counted for a city being active or inactive.

And using elvenstats to check on people is hit or miss too, because the only measurement that site uses to determine if a city might be inactive is whether the ranking score changes at all, up or down. Zero change in score means elvenstats marks a city as probably inactive. That is likely usually true for little cities, but big cities could go weeks without doing anything to change their score.

@Genefer before the Great Movement, I had a neighbor city that was barely started, at the beginning of chapter 1, and it sat like that for several years. And every other city belonging to that account looked to have been inactive for just as long, so I have no explanation for why some slip through the cracks like that. I just know that when I accidentally started a new city on a different server, if I ignored it and did not log in at all, it was auto-deleted in 2-4 weeks, even though my main city, and that other inactive city of mine I mentioned, had diamonds spent in them.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Isn't this exactly what we have currently?
Nope. Dynamic means that every city is a candidate for movement. What we have currently is that a city is only a candidate if the account has been ignored for 30 days. then they pick "someone" to fill that spot, including players creating new cities. The vast majority of cities do not move in any given week.
 

Ibison

Member
i dont even care what the excuses are anymore. they KNOW there are lots of us stranded in dead areas and that we've been here too long. as in, months on end. FIX IT.

i mean, really… why try to force a "center" at all? randomize the gaps. surely the number of dead boosts is proportional to live people playing the others so you can scatter them evenly.
If you really want to be moved, put in a request. State it here. Message the moderator here who can help move you along. Put in a ticket.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
The AM in my fs just got moved today or last night sometime to a place where a quick scan they did showed no goldmines! Slowly but surely.... don't lose hope!
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
No movement for my cities. Oh well
I'm sorry. :( I know it has to suck. About half of my map unlocked is basically all gold mines North of my city but I have good neighbors south of my city and some of them give daily return help so that's only reason I'm not complaining or putting in a ticket bc by the looks of these other comments here I think I'm doing pretty good where I am and don't want to risk getting moved to a possibly worse area.
 

Katwick

Cartographer
i mean, really… why try to force a "center" at all? randomize the gaps. surely the number of dead boosts is proportional to live people playing the others so you can scatter them evenly.
Bad idea, because if you don't have some sort of clustering mechanism, such as Move Active Cities Toward The Center, the remaining active cities will become more and more isolated as folks drop out.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
been done. stated, restated. for months.

And the move has not happened yet, for you and many others who have posted about it, is because of how helya told us many times that there is no way to manually move cities. The best she could do was keep a list for the day that might eventually get implemented and so that the devs can check the cities and make sure some glitch is not preventing the auto-movement.
 

Count Rupert

Well-Known Member
The criteria to move active cities from inactive areas to active might work fine. It might be the criteria of moving cities out of active areas that may be causing the problem. Afterall, to move that an active city there has to be a place for it to go. I don't yet have the problems many players are facing, but it's in my future. My neighborhood now borders a large expanse of wasteland. It would appear that it's not enough to rely on the moving algorithm to solve the problem. Even at it's best you're still going to have a fair number of players sitting on the edge being disadvantaged through no fault of their own. It would seem to me it would behoove Inno to implement something to create a fairer way of handling these issues than gold mines. I would think getting stuck on the edge as it is currently is on some level a breeding ground for active cities becoming inactive ones.
 
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