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    Your Elvenar Team

Help City Planning for Chapter 4 Elf

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
It's going to happen! I'm going to enter chapter 4 any day now (or at any rate, within a week I think). So I'm planning out my new city. I plan to add 4 expansions, to move my city from its current 4x4 configuration to a 4x5 configuration. I would like input on my plans, as I'm sure there are many who can come up with more efficient ideas than I can. I am going to tag @Kazaaar because he was so helpful last time.

Here's my current city on Elvenarchitect https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/e6d6f5019666490fa29fe56fc53de291/. As you can see, I'm boosted in marble, crystal, and elixir

In my future city I'd like to maintain at least 8 level 9 marble factories (I know I will be able to raise them halfway through the chapter, but let's start here), 4 level 10 crystal factories and 2 level 8 elixir factories, along with expanding my barracks to level 15 and having a level 9 armory, as well as upgrading some workshops. I have been playing around with elvenarchitect, and I have found a plan that almost does this, but I have to sacrifice a marble manufactory. I would like input about how I can save this marble manufactory and maybe add in one more marble manufactory and a couple more workshops. Does anyone have any ideas? Also, did I forget anything important?

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/3fb6f702c0184ec99d85ab75a42414a7/

Thanks for all your help! I'm learning a lot.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/8737729bf3084b83a94dc631f5b987c5/
Here's my stab at it. I like these kinds of puzzles, so decided to expand your city in the opposite direction you chose and see what I could fit that way. You'll notice there's also lots of unused space around your bldgs. That is intentional. It is planning the room needed for the next size change. So, when your marble factories grow to 3x2, the space is there for it already. Same for your workshops, just built with space to grow. With your houses, they will go from 3x3 to 2x4; one square smaller, a big alignment change, but only 20 added pop. All of the houses you have now will then fit in just the 2 top rows of where your houses are now. I put in the 2x4's above the grid there, so you can see how they will fit. That layout includes upgrading the ones that are placed oddly near the marble factories; those are just 'holding' those spots. You could move them around to wherever as you progress; obviously one is in the way of upgrading a couple of marble factories. If you find yourself needing more pop, you could add a couple of the 2x4 houses at the end of the road with the marble on it without sacrificing any of the marble factories. The other advantage of this built in upgrade space is for players who enjoy the events, FA's, etc. With a bit of jockeying around, you can fit in quite a few lvl 1 factories and/or workshops temporarily.
I'm going to voice an opinion about your workshops; it's based on the premise that you want to upgrade what you have before adding more. I've bent that premise at times, but it makes it no less valid, especially for early chapters. And especially for the basic resources the game is built upon: population, coins, & supplies. So, with houses and workshops, upgrade what you have to the highest available level before adding more. One caveat to that for your current situation: I'd probably forgo the 4th crystal and add & upgrade one more WS. Depending on my goods situation, as I upgraded those marble and saw what my increased production was, I might decide to replace one of them instead of a crystal with the 5th WS.
Your highest level WS is lvl 8; you gained the ability to upgrade them as far as lvl 15 in Ch3. While I wouldn't try to bite off that big of a chunk, I'd prioritize upgrading them to lvl 9. Yes, that is a big jump in pop needed, but it's also a big jump in supplies/hr. According to the Wiki, a lvl 8 WS makes 249 supplies/hr and is 3x2 in size, so 42/sq/hr. A lvl 9 WS makes 547/hr and is 4x3 in size, so 46/sq/hr. Once you reach lvl 15, it stays 4x3 but is making 828 supplies/hr or 69/sq/hr. Since those numbers are not influenced by culture bonus the way yours are, your numbers will probably be different. The ratio of upward adjustment with upgrades should be the same. Theoretically, all the WS and factories should work this way: as you upgrade, you'll need fewer due to more production/square. Since this is also related to the demand on those goods/supplies, it's rarely consistent from player to player. If you cater/negotiate/use diplomacy most of the time, your demand will be different from a player that uses a hybrid of fight/cater and yours and theirs will be different from a player that fights most of the time. Also, the game's demands seem to shift at times. There were chapters where I felt pressure on T1 goods, then it seemed to switch to T2 goods. Those fluctuations make for many different experiences, so take from this what you can use and toss the rest :)
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
It's going to happen! I'm going to enter chapter 4 any day now (or at any rate, within a week I think). So I'm planning out my new city. I plan to add 4 expansions, to move my city from its current 4x4 configuration to a 4x5 configuration. I would like input on my plans, as I'm sure there are many who can come up with more efficient ideas than I can. I am going to tag @Kazaaar because he was so helpful last time.

Here's my current city on Elvenarchitect https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/e6d6f5019666490fa29fe56fc53de291/. As you can see, I'm boosted in marble, crystal, and elixir

In my future city I'd like to maintain at least 8 level 9 marble factories (I know I will be able to raise them halfway through the chapter, but let's start here), 4 level 10 crystal factories and 2 level 8 elixir factories, along with expanding my barracks to level 15 and having a level 9 armory, as well as upgrading some workshops. I have been playing around with elvenarchitect, and I have found a plan that almost does this, but I have to sacrifice a marble manufactory. I would like input about how I can save this marble manufactory and maybe add in one more marble manufactory and a couple more workshops. Does anyone have any ideas? Also, did I forget anything important?

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/3fb6f702c0184ec99d85ab75a42414a7/

Thanks for all your help! I'm learning a lot.

You've received some great advice so far and the only thing I'd like to add is I think you could have a little trouble making ends meet with only 8 marble manufactories; be aware that marble, in elven cities, has the lowest production rate per square of any T1 manufactory and I believe the recommendation is for 10-12 of them. But, if anyone can make 8 work, you can. I made do with 10 but struggled at times (mostly due to rushing things).
It's hard to say what you'll need without knowing whether you intend to cater more or fight. I'm assuming it will be cater given you only have 1 armory. I think you'd be better of sacrificing the 2nd T3 and focusing on keeping goods numbers of T1 & 2 because you can always pick up the odd cross trade to supplement T3 if needed and your greatest demand will be for T1 & 2 goods at this stage. Remember you can always use teleporting spells to send excess manufactories to your inventory instead of selling them.

The only other thing to mention is watch for the wallop on the spire and in tournies if you're placing 4 expansions in one go. These and adding completed tech to your squad size calculations will cause a big jump in troop losses/ negotiation costs.
 
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Kazaaar

Member

I tried tinkering with your city layout, but it is difficult to optimize it further. I think one potential issue with this layout is insufficient culture--currently it would be barely 100% before any NH. I usually target at least 125% culture before NH. You may want to consider replacing some of the residences with Blossom Light Post, which will be available the second time on the very last day of this event according to the information from Beta.

Also, you can also consider placing some of the following buildings:
- Moonstone Library sets
- Grounds of Orc Strategists / Valorian Valor
- Queen Fairy's Retreat

These buildings all give culture. In particular, I believe a fully-levelled Queen Fairy's Retreat is superior to the manufactories, considering that it gives culture and population, rather than consuming them.

Finally, I am also in Chapter 4, and learning that it is helpful to have some wiggle room in my city. It helps you when you need some space unexpectedly--for example, when you win a Ferris Wheel Galore or a Carting Libary from the FA, or a Genie from the spire. During the FA, the wiggle room can be used to fit small manufactories or workshops. It also helps you when you need to do some minor rearrangement of your buildings, because you don't need to use a teleport spell or sell a building. I just felt that some spare spaces improved my game-play experience in general, but others may disagree and view such spaces as wasteful.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
I just felt that some spare spaces improved my game-play experience in general, but others may disagree and view such spaces as wasteful.

Wiggle room is essential.
Also, leaving space to grow into can easily be filled with "disposable" culture like those little ponies and flower cages which offer culture & pop.
 

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the good advice!

Maybe 3 crystal factories will be enough. I do think I will need 2 elixir factories though. I have one now, and my t3 stash is growing a lot more slowly than the others. However, maybe t3 will not be needed as much? It will be used in the Spire once I'm in chapter 4, right? In chapter 3 I noticed there is no t3 in the Spire.
 

Kazaaar

Member
Thanks for the good advice!

Maybe 3 crystal factories will be enough. I do think I will need 2 elixir factories though. I have one now, and my t3 stash is growing a lot more slowly than the others. However, maybe t3 will not be needed as much? It will be used in the Spire once I'm in chapter 4, right? In chapter 3 I noticed there is no t3 in the Spire.

I reached Chapter 4 before the beginning of the last spire round, and during the last spire I didn't see any demand for T3 in any of the three floors. I don't think Chapter 4 spire requires T3.

Below are potential sources of demand for T3 in Chapter 4:
- Research tech
- Some building upgrades
- Provinces (Ring 6--however, you won't need to open Ring 6 to open Chapter 5)

In my case, I haven't built a T3 manufactory yet. I have noticed that some advanced neighbors post trades of T3 for T1 or T2 at favorable rates frequently--I guess they have an excess of T3. I have picked up some of those trades, and now I have enough T3 for the entirety of Chapter 4. Because I traded at favorable ratios, I thought this approach might be better than producing T3 on my own.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
Thanks for the good advice!

Maybe 3 crystal factories will be enough. I do think I will need 2 elixir factories though. I have one now, and my t3 stash is growing a lot more slowly than the others. However, maybe t3 will not be needed as much? It will be used in the Spire once I'm in chapter 4, right? In chapter 3 I noticed there is no t3 in the Spire.

I would most def not reduce your crystal manufactories. I would say you'll definitely need 4 at a minimum. No, you won't be asked for T3 in the spire yet (to the best of my knowledge.
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
In my case, I haven't built a T3 manufactory yet. I have noticed that some advanced neighbors post trades of T3 for T1 or T2 at favorable rates frequently--I guess they have an excess of T3. I have picked up some of those trades, and now I have enough T3 for the entirety of Chapter 4. Because I traded at favorable ratios, I thought this approach might be better than producing T3 on my own.

Yes it is at this stage. I have 1 T3 and it will stay that way. My biggest city is Ch 9 and still only 1 T3. This will probably change further along as fewer hybrids offer T3 for me now. In one city where I have no T3 (Ch 8) I collect 20k T3 from hybrids.

T3 manufactories are less efficient producers of goods than T1 so at this early stage it's smart to use that pop, space & culture for T1 & 2

The reason you see so may cross trades offering T3 is because the trader system artificially inflates T3 value by basing the exchange rate on cost in coin to produce but this isn't an accurate measure of actual overheads so it's more profitable at higher levels to make T3 and trade it for T1 & 2 although this is bad for the trader market and unsustainable in the long run.
 

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
The advantage to my marble factories being so small is that if there is an FA or an event where I need more workshops, they are the same size as level 1-4 workshops, so I can just teleport them in and out (or completely rebuild them, depending on how rich in t1 I get).
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
You've received some great advice so far and the only thing I'd like to add is I think you could have a little trouble making ends meet with only 8 marble manufactories; be aware that marble, in elven cities, has the lowest production rate per square of any T1 manufactory and I believe the recommendation is for 10-12 of them. But, if anyone can make 8 work, you can. I made do with 10 but struggled at times (mostly due to rushing things).
It's hard to say what you'll need without knowing whether you intend to cater more or fight. I'm assuming it will be cater given you only have 1 armory. I think you'd be better of sacrificing the 2nd T3 and focusing on keeping goods numbers of T1 & 2 because you can always pick up the odd cross trade to supplement T3 if needed and your greatest demand will be for T1 & 2 goods at this stage. Remember you can always use teleporting spells to send excess manufactories to your inventory instead of selling them.

The only other thing to mention is watch for the wallop on the spire and in tournies if you're placing 4 expansions in one go. These and adding completed tech to your squad size calculations will cause a big jump in troop losses/ negotiation costs.
You're right that catering vs fighting influences a city's needs/growth dynamic significantly. I am in chapter 9 and have catered all the way (elven city). I have only 6 maxed marble, 4 maxed silk, and 2 maxed gems (started with three each and have adjusted based on deficiency and surplus). I also have no armories (or orc nests). I was advised that I would need lots of orcs so I got on that in a big way once I had the ability to do so. I quickly built and maxed two armories. I have since gotten rid of both (teleported one in case I changed my mind so I wouldn't need to start from scratch). I even sold my orc nests. My orcs are currently supplied by my witch's hut (only, I believe) and have more than enough (and I'll likely just add orc nests as needed if it isn't keeping up). I wasn't given bad advice; it was a strong fighter who was [self-admittedly] out of touch with the needs of a cater-only city. Balance to meet the needs of a fight&cater city is something I'm not familiar with but I have heard that cater-only cities tend to have more factories so I just wanted to share my numbers that I'm getting by comfortably. I also realize that a chapter 4 city is different than chapter 9 in both size and needs, but the specs I shared is a viable future should one choose to go that route.

[edit: I just discovered that my six marble have upgrades available. Weird. I thought everything was maxed. Well, this time tomorrow they will be and I'll be even more comfortable]
 
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DeletedUser27062

Guest
You're right that catering vs fighting influences a city's needs/growth dynamic significantly. I am in chapter 9 and have catered all the way (elven city). I have only 6 maxed marble, 4 maxed silk, and 2 maxed gems (started with three each and have adjusted based on deficiency and surplus). I also have no armories (or orc nests). I was advised that I would need lots of orcs so I got on that in a big way once I had the ability to do so. I quickly built and maxed two armories. I have since gotten rid of both (teleported one in case I changed my mind so I wouldn't need to start from scratch). I even sold my orc nests. My orcs are currently supplied by my witch's hut (only, I believe) and have more than enough (and I'll likely just add orc nests as needed if it isn't keeping up). I wasn't given bad advice; it was a strong fighter who was [self-admittedly] out of touch with the needs of a cater-only city. Balance to meet the needs of a fight&cater city is something I'm not familiar with but I have heard that cater-only cities tend to have more factories so I just wanted to share my numbers that I'm getting by comfortably. I also realize that a chapter 4 city is different than chapter 9 in both size and needs, but the specs I shared is a viable future should one choose to go that route.

[edit: I just discovered that my six marble have an upgrades available. Weird. I thought everything was maxed. Well, this time tomorrow they will be and I'll be even more comfortable]

How long have you been playing Aritra? Do you complete the spire each week?
I think that the speed at which one grows their city can influence things a lot too. I tend to be a speed freak and rush things (not advisable but just how I roll) so need more manufactories than most pure fighting cities. The majority of my post ch 6 cities have 4 T1, 2 T2 and 1 T3. All cities have a minimum goods balance of about 3-500k of each good. All my cities started out with 10 T1 manufactories and it's not until they get their big upgrade in late ch 4 that I started reducing numbers.

The Orcs thing interests me. I use mostly orc nests for my orcs as I don't want to upgrade my witches hut just yet. I don't use my armories to breed orc even though I have 3 of them (down from 7). I use the Dwarven Bulwark and Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms to increase my training size more now and Heroes Forge for orcs in addition to nests.

I love that there are so many different ways to tailor one's city and grow it according to each players individual style. I really appreciate your addition to this conversation Aritra. :)
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
@Eudaemonia
Yep, That's one of the best things about this game: there's so many different approaches that there's virtually no "wrong" way.

I've been playing over a year (end of Feb last year). I really take it easy. I'm obsessed a bit and spend a significant amount of my day in Elvenar but I'm in no rush (so much so that I hardly use portal profits). It is likely this relaxed speed makes the difference to get by easily because of the time allowed to regrow inventory. Don't get me wrong, though. I can get antsy (I just don't push through chapters). I use a lot of time boosters (both crafted and from spire) and sometimes few trips to the wholesaler (that's what rain/windfalls are for, lol, but still not a lot because it's still highway robbery even if you can afford it) because I can get impatient for my trades (which don't last long in trader either). Because I cater-only, I have no need for military-oriented AWs and reservation of the space they use. My Witch's Hut is evolved to 8 (before joining FS so didn't finish off with FA-artifacts) but I've kept it to current chapter since it is one of the better evolving buildings I have and provides plenty of orcs for my needs (I understand military use of orcs to require a lot more).

As far as the Spire, I clear the second floor each week (I've been to the top, but I realized that unless I'm in a FS that has the FS points (the purple stuff) that goes to the top, then there aren't enough rewards to make it worth it (the first and only time I did it was to say I did, but once I was there, I looked down from that lonely room and realized my only bragging right was mismanagement of resources). I usually clear the second floor on Monday (intending to have met that goal before tourney starts on Tuesday), then I focus on tourney (rather than split focus). I typically contribute upper 2K to tourney and FS takes the tenth chest despite not 100% participation (handful of people contribute 3K+).

I actually spent six months on my city and was somewhere in dwarves by the time I joined the forum (and a FS a couple months later) and began talking to people. I also spired very little for the first several months because I struggled with getting the hang of it. By that time of receiving lots of advice, I was already set in my ways. I listen to advice but do what I want to do in the end (don't do or avoid something just because I was told so). I laugh at the "keep it square" repeat advice because I didn't and still doing just fine. I had a plan in mind from the first decision where I was laying down the first workshops and residences and I still don't regret it. It began as an L (from main hall, residences in one direction and workshops/factories in the other), building out to wrap into a U while also building outward from the middle--all the while maintaining categorical sectioning. The only area of concern (to me) is the settlement area but I have already done the math and determined that it is sufficient for the next one (which has significantly larger buildings) but new expansions will be focused on expanding that area. I do not regret not joining a FS for a long time, however, I cannot deny how the FS perks have contributed to my city growth in the last six months.

Organization for efficiency is a must, but not at the expense of visual aesthetics (exceptions really bug me, lol). My city has distinct zones (sometimes call them districts) and, with rare exception, buildings always go in their designated sections (rearranging for size-dimension shifts requires adherence to this). All residential and non-goods-producing popC are together (adjacent, not mixed), separated from goods factories and goods-popC. Factories are not mixed with goods-popC, though adjacent. Evolving buildings together and specialized non-factory goods (mana, for example) are grouped together (same for all "24-hr/no early collect" buildings are grouped). The builders hut goes near the main hall (town-center), but with residential section because that's where the builders live. Magic Academy goes near the main hall because it is also a producer with a direct relationship with the main hall, but non-good related. Trader was typically situation in the vicinity of between main hall (storage) and producers, though it is now away from producers while still being near the main hall. AWs are more or less together, though mostly on the main hall side of the perimeter and ordered somewhat near their associations (EE next to PT which is adjacent to workshops, MH adjacent to factories, and CL-WT tucked in the corner). And, of course, there is the settlement district. Expiring buildings and pure culture items (of which I keep few) are also somewhat together and toward the main hall (in the gaps between town-center and settlement, expiring trading station being specifically adjacent to settlement, of course). My FA-shanty town is always concentrated also, typically in the settlement district if between settlements, or taking up a piece on the edge if I have an active settlement (at the moment, visitors would see I've started FA prep, which varies according to state of city business). All my roads must match, also (I still use dwarven roads as I really like them and footpaths are used for temporary setups such as FA). It is just my personality that I can't tolerate the "sprinkle method" (as I call it, fitting anything anywhere). It feels messy to me. I don't judge other cities for it; I just can't handle it for my own.

I love the combination of organization and creativity, and the graphics are beautiful. Very fun to develop.

[Sorry-but-not-sorry for going on and on beyond your question, but I am just really proud of my city.]
 
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DeletedUser27062

Guest
@Eudaemonia
Yep, That's one of the best things about this game: there's so many different approaches that there's virtually no "wrong" way.

I've been playing over a year (end of Feb last year). I really take it easy. I'm obsessed a bit and spend a significant amount of my day in Elvenar but I'm in no rush (so much so that I hardly use portal profits). It is likely this relaxed speed makes the difference to get by easily because of the time allowed to regrow inventory. Don't get me wrong, though. I can get antsy (I just don't push through chapters). I use a lot of time boosters (both crafted and from spire) and sometimes few trips to the wholesaler (that's what rain/windfalls are for, lol, but still not a lot because it's still highway robbery even if you can afford it) because I can get impatient for my trades (which don't last long in trader either). Because I cater-only, I have no need for military-oriented AWs and reservation of the space they use. My Witch's Hut is evolved to 8 (before joining FS so didn't finish off with FA-artifacts) but I've kept it to current chapter since it is one of the better evolving buildings I have and provides plenty of orcs for my needs (I understand military use of orcs to require a lot more).

As far as the Spire, I clear the second floor each week (I've been to the top, but I realized that unless I'm in a FS that has the FS points (the purple stuff) that goes to the top, then there aren't enough rewards to make it worth it (the first and only time I did it was to say I did, but once I was there, I looked down from that lonely room and realized my only bragging right was mismanagement of resources). I usually clear the second floor on Monday (intending to have met that goal before tourney starts on Tuesday), then I focus on tourney (rather than split focus). I typically contribute upper 2K to tourney and FS takes the tenth chest despite not 100% participation (handful of people contribute 3K+).

I actually spent six months on my city and was somewhere in dwarves by the time I joined the forum (and a FS a couple months later) and began talking to people. I also spired very little for the first several months because I struggled with getting the hang of it. By that time of receiving lots of advice, I was already set in my ways. I listen to advice but do what I want to do in the end (don't do or avoid something just because I was told so). I laugh at the "keep it square" repeat advice because I didn't and still doing just fine. I had a plan in mind from the first decision where I was laying down the first workshops and residences and I still don't regret it. It began as an L (from main hall, residences in one direction and workshops/factories in the other), building out to wrap into a U while also building outward from the middle--all the while maintaining categorical sectioning. The only area of concern (to me) is the settlement area but I have already done the math and determined that it is sufficient for the next one (which has significantly larger buildings) but new expansions will be focused on expanding that area. I do not regret not joining a FS for a long time, however, I cannot deny how the FS perks have contributed to my city growth in the last six months.

Organization for efficiency is a must, but not at the expense of visual aesthetics (exceptions really bug me, lol). My city has distinct zones (sometimes call them districts) and, with rare exception, buildings always go in their designated sections (rearranging for size-dimension shifts requires adherence to this). All residential and non-goods-producing popC are together (adjacent, not mixed), separated from goods factories and goods-popC. Factories are not mixed with goods-popC, though adjacent. Evolving buildings together and specialized non-factory goods (mana, for example) are grouped together (same for all "24-hr/no early collect" buildings are grouped). The builders hut goes near the main hall (town-center), but with residential section because that's where the builders live. Magic Academy goes near the main hall because it is also a producer with a direct relationship with the main hall, but non-good related. Trader was typically situation in the vicinity of between main hall (storage) and producers, though it is now away from producers while still being near the main hall. AWs are more or less together, though mostly on the main hall side of the perimeter and ordered somewhat near their associations (EE next to PT which is adjacent to workshops, MH adjacent to factories, and CL-WT tucked in the corner). And, of course, there is the settlement district. Expiring buildings and pure culture items (of which I keep few) are also somewhat together and toward the main hall (in the gaps between town-center and settlement, expiring trading station being specifically adjacent to settlement, of course). My FA-shanty town is always concentrated also, typically in the settlement district if between settlements, or taking up a piece on the edge if I have an active settlement (at the moment, visitors would see I've started FA prep, which varies according to state of city business). All my roads must match, also (I still use dwarven roads as I really like them and footpaths are used for temporary setups such as FA). It is just my personality that I can't tolerate the "sprinkle method" (as I call it, fitting anything anywhere). It feels messy to me. I don't judge other cities for it; I just can't handle it for my own.

I love the combination of organization and creativity, and the graphics are beautiful. Very fun to develop.

[Sorry-but-not-sorry for going on and on beyond your question, but I am just really proud of my city.]

I just had to go have a peek after that amazing description. I LOVE what you've done with your city!! I'm so glad you didn't conform to the status quo because your city is so beautiful!

This is my favourite city and favourite view there. A screen shot doesn't do justice!


my fav.jpg
 
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