Contest Discussion Thread

[BrinDarby]

so it often doesn't work well for contests.

Then Inno needs a better poll function......lololol

 

[Queen of Snacks]

Then Inno needs a better poll function......lololol

The thought had crossed my mind in the past

 

[Deborah M]

I do feel bad for SweetP. It seems like SweetP just got left holding the bag. Interesting considering Astram clearly added a vote after the contest was over. I had never realized that we can see the times of likes just by tapping on it so I’m thinking Astram didn’t know that either. Oops

 

[Sweetp]

CONTEST RESULTS

Thank you to all who entered!!

 

[Dew Spinner]

I think we all agree that Sweetp didn't start this mess, and that she's (he?) trying to do the best to fix it. But the problem was definitely started intentionally by mods who voted illegally after the close of the contest, so it is Inno's fault for not having a policy to keep their mods from doing that. And if they do have a policy and the mods chose to ignore it, then they need to be kicked out. After all, it wasn't an accident that mods skewed the results after the contest ended. Inno is going to have to be proactive about this and let everyone know what actions they have taken to modify or create a policy to avoid cheating in the future, before trust will be built again.

But I agree with you that Sweet is taking the brunt of the flak for something that other mods did, and the other mods are going to have to take responsibility ... and so is Inno for training or failing to train them (whether volunteers or not) in the first place. This is unacceptable behavior. I just don't want it to sour our relationships on the forum. Mistakes do happen, and if they are corrected, if proper training is put in place for mods in future, and if the original scores are restored, then I'll be satisfied.

It even gets worse for getting the Forum Rules to apply to all members, some get admonished, some don't.

 

[Alram]

At some point, someone is going to realize that offering diamonds over and over and over again to whoever has the most alts is a bad idea, right?

 

[samidodamage]

to whoever has the most alts is a bad idea, right?

I don't think that's the problem. I've known many of the posters who have won contests in the forum. While some may have alt accounts, none of those alts were in the contest threads/voting. In Queen of Snacks screenshot of votes after voting ended, I recognize 3 (maybe 4, I don't try to keep up, lol!) as being the same person. AFAIK, they are not the poster who submitted the entry.

Did you see this?

problem was definitely started intentionally by mods who voted illegally after the close of the contest

bolding is mine.
The mods have alts! Valid reason: bad enough to get yelled at in your 'work mode' when you're a volunteer; not inviting it into your private life when 'off the clock'.
Staff (volunteer or otherwise) cannot enter a contest in their mod name (or their private name, I *think*). They should not be allowed to vote for entries, either, IMO, whether before or after voting has ended...

 

[Alram]

@samidodamage
You don't think having contests that can be thrown by alts is a problem?

 

[Dreamyn2]

Contests thrown by alts is one thing, thrown by moderator alts is a whole other ballgame, whether accidental or intentional.

 

[Lelanya]

The mods have alts, so that they have test cities, in order to attempt to duplicate problems that other players are experiencing. But yeah, what happened with the voting was over the top.

 

[Darielle]

I don't think that's the problem. I've known many of the posters who have won contests in the forum. While some may have alt accounts, none of those alts were in the contest threads/voting. In Queen of Snacks screenshot of votes after voting ended, I recognize 3 (maybe 4, I don't try to keep up, lol!) as being the same person. AFAIK, they are not the poster who submitted the entry.

Did you see this?

bolding is mine.
The mods have alts! Valid reason: bad enough to get yelled at in your 'work mode' when you're a volunteer; not inviting it into your private life when 'off the clock'.
Staff (volunteer or otherwise) cannot enter a contest in their mod name (or their private name, I *think*). They should not be allowed to vote for entries, either, IMO, whether before or after voting has ended...

I agree that Inno should make a rule that mods cannot vote in contests. I have to admit, whether I enter a future contest or not, I'm going to be watching for the same IDs that voted in the hours just before the winners were announced, whether they vote during or after the contest.

As far as alts go, I have one alt, but it dang sure didn't vote in the contest. I didn't want to skew the results either for or against me.

One thing to note ... the one who got bumped up from third place to first place, fully one-third of their votes were "new members" ... the votes from new members for either Queen of Snacks or me were far fewer .... 50 percent less. I'm not saying new members shouldn't vote. I love new members. But it is curious that they congregated on one entry more than any other.

 

[samidodamage]

@Alram
Years ago I shared my thoughts about alts in the multiple threads discussing/debating the impact of alts on a variety of areas of the game. I've since accepted that Inno thinks differently about this subject than I do. They have their own reasons for allowing them and it's their decision to make, so I'm over it.
btw: I recall a number of arguments for/against alts, but I don't ever remember anyone bringing up 'could skew forum (or other social media) diamond contests' (and I'm not going looking for them now to check!). With my mind being more of a sieve than a steel trap, I could be wrong, lol! It is another valid argument against alts, IMO.
Looking at the pros/cons columns for alts I just don't think 'skewing forum contests' is going to be the argument that changes Inno's mind about this.

 

[muffy.]

Well mods can no longer vote and likes won’t be used anymore for voting as they’ve already said , so that’s a done deal.

 

[Alram]

As long as forum contest outcomes can be determined by forum votes, players will use alts to skew those results.

 

[Dreamyn2]

As long as forum contest outcomes can be determined by forum votes, players will use alts to skew those results.

Maybe? Perhaps? More than likely? Yeah it can/did happen but was noticed and corrected. Yay!

I still like to think most forum members are decent honest folk, here to help others and have fun doing so.

 

[Sodbury]

One thing to note ... the one who got bumped up from third place to first place, fully one-third of their votes were "new members" ... the votes from new members for either Queen of Snacks or me were far fewer .... 50 percent less. I'm not saying new members shouldn't vote. I love new members. But it is curious that they congregated on one entry more than any other.

I reckon there's a logic to this. Given your strong presence on the forum and the connections you have made here, many of your Elvenar friends and fellows are likely to have a forum presence, too. The other artist is new to the forum, likely attracted by the contest. Their own friends and fellows were discovered elsewhere, and would require registration to vote.

A simple "hey please support me in the elvenar cake contest" posted in fellowship chat could result in a flood of new registrations.

I expected the forum giants here to dominate the contest*, but the vote counts were not so great as to rule out a decent artist with a dedicated fellowship.

*Nothing nefarious implied here. I reckon you giants are excellent. The rules and voting system just favor this outcome. Like they favor the earliest submissions.

edit:
I've just discovered the corrected results. I think I misunderstood you and that you were only referring to "late" votes. In which case, you can safely ignore what I've said. This is sound policy, generally.

 

[Darielle]

I reckon there's a logic to this. Given your strong presence on the forum and the connections you have made here, many of your Elvenar friends and fellows are likely to have a forum presence, too. The other artist is new to the forum, likely attracted by the contest. Their own friends and fellows were discovered elsewhere, and would require registration to vote.

A simple "hey please support me in the elvenar cake contest" posted in fellowship chat could result in a flood of new registrations.

I expected the forum giants here to dominate the contest*, but the vote counts were not so great as to rule out a decent artist with a dedicated fellowship.

*Nothing nefarious implied here. I reckon you giants are excellent. The rules and voting system just favor this outcome. Like they favor the earliest submissions.

edit:
I've just discovered the corrected results. I think I misunderstood you and that you were only referring to "late" votes. In which case, you can safely ignore what I've said. This is sound policy, generally.

Yeah, I was referring to a lot of late votes being new members. I've never thought of myself as a large presence but people always perceive themselves differently from what others perceive. Thanks! I generally agree with you (on the other things I mean, lol.)

And I understand that saying "Hey vote for me" in the fellowship is normal ... I actually did that myself and the only new members who voted for me are people in my 2 fellowships (Arendyll and Sinya).

As far as a "decent" artist goes, I think anyone should be able to enter even if their entry is enhanced with technology or they got part of it from public domain sources and put it together. I didn't do that on my entry, but I have no problem with that. Nowadays, using tech to enhance your work is normal. But note ... I said "enhanced" .... not totally created by tech. It is my humble opinion that they should disallow Stable Diffusion entries. I knew nothing about SD before I entered this contest. When I was scrolling through the entries in order to show my son (a senior software dev) my cake picture, he said, "Woah, wait a minute, back up" ... and I backed up to a certain entry and he said, "They're allowing Stable Diffusion?? I could type four words into SD and come up with something at least that good and probably better." He left the room, called me 60 seconds later and said, "Come and see." He had done it in maybe 5 or 10 seconds, and it was fantastic ... seeing them side by side they were very similar but my son's was more "Elvenar-like" if that makes sense. He could have easily won the contest with it, although he didn't enter it. The only reason it took 60 seconds before he called me is because he had to open the program first.

I really think they need to consider changing the rules to say that you must do at least part of the work yourself, not type a couple words into a program and click "create". This is the same thing that teachers are having a problem with. In future, if we have an essay contest, are we going to allow GPT4 to write the whole essay, without a single bit of their own enhancement, and then declare that person the winner and say they are a "decent writer" just because they got a bot to do it? I have qualms about that. What is the point of everyone else trying if they can just get bots to do all the work? Will contests even matter then? I'm not trying to diss any particular person, and Sweetp specifically said that Stable Diffusion was allowed (my son asked me to ask, because he couldn't believe it was).... so it's not any entrant's fault if they used it. I'm not against the person, only the method. I'm just saying that we need to clarify rules if we're going to have decent contests in the future. The world is a different place than it was when they started these contests.

 

[Iyapo]

I do not think SD should be banned. It is a tool like any other. A layperson can get good results, a person who is familiar with it will get better results. You can compare a painting with a photograph, even though they are not the same. I think we can compare a cake with SD image art.

 

[free-spirit]

Sweetp specifically said it was permitted. The entry itself doesn't seem to be the issue. The vote manipulation does.

 

[Alram]

@Darielle asked 'Will contests even matter then?

They really don't matter to most if us now. They are just a fun bit of harmless frivolity.