DeletedUser28963
Guest
With the spire starting in less than 12 hours. I was wondering how to better do convincing once I deplete my troops only in the beginning of chapter 3 and can’t make them fast enough. Any tips?
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Your Elvenar Team
samidodamage
Buddy Fan Club member
Check out this link:
ElvenGems: Diplomacy video
ElvenGems: Diplomacy video
crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
In early chapters, troop production is woeful. Early armories are woeful and do not add much to the pile. I would suggest saving troops for tourney as they will stretch further there. The stack size of troops increase very quickly in Spire so it doesn't stretch very far at all. The logic to cater Gateway is super easy and catering is still really cheap in early chapters so I would agree to try to cater more.
Guurt The Destroyer
Well-Known Member
I just left chapter 3. I've gone to top of the spire 2 out of the 4 times I did the Spire.
The hints I would give are...
1) Always check to see if a Spire battle has a terrain set up that will give you an easy win for manual fights. I won the 2nd to last spire battle on floor 3 with 0 troop loss in the last spire because the terrain was so bad for the enemy that only 1 enemy unit could approach me at a time. I also have frogs so I just annihilated them one at a time.
Once you know the terrain you can often quit and start again with the perfect set up for that battle. Learning how to use initiative to check the terrain really helps. It wastes time but not other resources.
2) On the 3rd floor if you don't get at least 2 reds on the first catering attempt don't just blindly go for a dumb luck win. Better to conserve your resources when the odds of success are really bad. This can also be true on the harder catering challenges on floor 2. If my chance of success is less than say 30% I often just quit if I don't have the resources to waste on a Hail Mary.
3) On the 2nd round of catering consider holding an item that has been marked as yellow back from rotation. In round 3 you know this item needs to be used and by holding it back on round 2 the puzzle is often resolved easily as you learned something else by putting a different item into the rotation on round 2.
4) If you have limited resources then don't be afraid to spend the 25 diamonds to get a 4th round on the hardest gate battles (assuming you know the answer). If you don't have limited resources then that isn't an issue.
I am by no means an expert, but those are the things I do when I have limited resources.
The hints I would give are...
1) Always check to see if a Spire battle has a terrain set up that will give you an easy win for manual fights. I won the 2nd to last spire battle on floor 3 with 0 troop loss in the last spire because the terrain was so bad for the enemy that only 1 enemy unit could approach me at a time. I also have frogs so I just annihilated them one at a time.
Once you know the terrain you can often quit and start again with the perfect set up for that battle. Learning how to use initiative to check the terrain really helps. It wastes time but not other resources.
2) On the 3rd floor if you don't get at least 2 reds on the first catering attempt don't just blindly go for a dumb luck win. Better to conserve your resources when the odds of success are really bad. This can also be true on the harder catering challenges on floor 2. If my chance of success is less than say 30% I often just quit if I don't have the resources to waste on a Hail Mary.
3) On the 2nd round of catering consider holding an item that has been marked as yellow back from rotation. In round 3 you know this item needs to be used and by holding it back on round 2 the puzzle is often resolved easily as you learned something else by putting a different item into the rotation on round 2.
4) If you have limited resources then don't be afraid to spend the 25 diamonds to get a 4th round on the hardest gate battles (assuming you know the answer). If you don't have limited resources then that isn't an issue.
I am by no means an expert, but those are the things I do when I have limited resources.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Only works in the browser version because the many, many mobile app players only have the auto-fight option and cannot look at the terrain at all.
Guurt The Destroyer
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know, but it doesn't change the power of checking the terrain if you have the ability to do so.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
True, but as more and more players are app-only, when anyone talks about something that is browser-only, it is good to include that in the comment, or we will be confusing more and more players every day. I just wonder when the day will come that they remove manual fighting from the browser completely.
Guurt The Destroyer
Well-Known Member
I don't think I would continue to play without manual fighting. It seems like they should add that to the app rather than remove it from the browser version. I like manual fighting, maybe I won't always do it, but it adds a bit of complexity to the game. I can decide which stack I want to sacrifice and which stacks I want to protect. Auto fighting can give insane losses that really shouldn't have happened. But I understand some people don't want to spend the time on manual fighting. I decide to start playing this game when I saw the fighting and decided it was reasonably interesting.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
From what I have heard/read, it won't ever get added to the app because it would be a data hog and/or majorly increase the amount of storage needed by the game on your device.
Gladiola
Well-Known Member
Early on in the Spire you will use t1 and t2 goods exclusively, so it's best to focus your city on producing your t1 and t2 boosts with maybe only one t3 factory. The smaller you can keep your city (number of expansions), the cheaper convincing costs will be. Don't worry about using supply instants to refill supplies if you need them to convince -- you will win plenty of those in the Spire. If two goods have an equal possibility of being taken, choose the one that's cheapest for you -- you don't lose anything by doing that, and it makes it more efficient overall.
Pay attention to your relic boosts, since that's another big driver of costs. try to keep your t1 and t2 relic boosts in the same neighborhood, because costs are calculated based on the highest boost, so if your t2 boost is 600% and your t1 boost is 400% you're going to have a harder time keeping up with the t1 costs. Crafting or not crafting relics is one way you can try to keep boosts balanced.
Pay attention to your relic boosts, since that's another big driver of costs. try to keep your t1 and t2 relic boosts in the same neighborhood, because costs are calculated based on the highest boost, so if your t2 boost is 600% and your t1 boost is 400% you're going to have a harder time keeping up with the t1 costs. Crafting or not crafting relics is one way you can try to keep boosts balanced.
Deleted User - 1178646
Guest
my best advise would be to ask some of your fellows. if you are chapter 3, the big players can easily afford to give your 20K of each good, and that will bring you to the top for of the spire for many weeks. this is mutually beneficial. it also gives you time to build up the production to do things on your own merit.
DeletedUser28963
Guest
ummm...my human city in khelonaar is able to produce way more goods(I lack gold and supply refills there) than my elven city in Winyandor. In the first city, we are all in a similar place on the spire at the moment and I should go higher than last week more goods. My elven city in Winyandor may reacquire me to find a new guild that is interested in the spire no goes beyond the first section, the cities are big.
Gkyr
Chef
Some advice for convincing:
Entering a good provides you with information about the odds, so DO NOT omit any good in Round 1, unless you have more than 5 goods to choose from.
There seems to be a frequency hierarchy of goods that get accepted. (This works for me, definitely, for the past year - YMMV). Coins>Supplies>Orcs>Marble>Steel>Planks>Crystal>Scrolls>Silk>Elixir>Dust>Gems>Mana.
On round 2, always fill in the "Wrong Person" first, because you know they are in there somewhere, then fill in any excess good that was not entered in round 1, then always enter a good that got accepted (because it is not out of the running, yet). If any slots left, start with the first "Wrong Person" good again.
I always fill the first open slot on the left with the "wrong person" good to the right of it (sometimes immediately to the right, sometimes 1 or 2 slots away), then I fill the next open slot with the next "wrong person" good, etc., then I wrap around the first "wrong person" good (if present) into the next open slot (sometimes it is the last open slot, sometimes not).
Round 3 similar to round 2.
If you are left with two "wrong person" slots, it is a no-brainer; just swap them, of course.
If you are left with 3 open slots and two of them are "wrong person", often 1 will be obvious where it goes, then the other two often fall into place.
NB: often check to see that you are not mistakenly entering a good that had already been rejected by the same slot!
Entering a good provides you with information about the odds, so DO NOT omit any good in Round 1, unless you have more than 5 goods to choose from.
There seems to be a frequency hierarchy of goods that get accepted. (This works for me, definitely, for the past year - YMMV). Coins>Supplies>Orcs>Marble>Steel>Planks>Crystal>Scrolls>Silk>Elixir>Dust>Gems>Mana.
On round 2, always fill in the "Wrong Person" first, because you know they are in there somewhere, then fill in any excess good that was not entered in round 1, then always enter a good that got accepted (because it is not out of the running, yet). If any slots left, start with the first "Wrong Person" good again.
I always fill the first open slot on the left with the "wrong person" good to the right of it (sometimes immediately to the right, sometimes 1 or 2 slots away), then I fill the next open slot with the next "wrong person" good, etc., then I wrap around the first "wrong person" good (if present) into the next open slot (sometimes it is the last open slot, sometimes not).
Round 3 similar to round 2.
If you are left with two "wrong person" slots, it is a no-brainer; just swap them, of course.
If you are left with 3 open slots and two of them are "wrong person", often 1 will be obvious where it goes, then the other two often fall into place.
NB: often check to see that you are not mistakenly entering a good that had already been rejected by the same slot!
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Remember to withdraw if you don't get at least one "nobody needs it" on the first try, in anything but the first couple of rooms. Once you get into the upper levels, withdraw if you don't get at least two "nobody needs it" on the first try. The best thing you can possibly get on the first try is "nobody needs it," because then you can eliminate items, which is much more important than eliminating spirits. In other words, it's better to have 5 spirits left on the second try but only three items left, than it is to have three spirits left on the second try with five items left. Your odds of winning are better.
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
@Kaylessa Wintermoon
Here is a link to a list of my favorite youtube vids on catering the spire early game. If not for these videos I would not be able to spire. I have been mostly gold spiring since chapter 3.5 because of this youtuber.
Here is a link to a list of my favorite youtube vids on catering the spire early game. If not for these videos I would not be able to spire. I have been mostly gold spiring since chapter 3.5 because of this youtuber.
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Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
This is one of my favorite beginner videos on catering the spire:
Mercy is very clear and concise.
Note that some of the rewards are a bit different now, because the numbers have changed, but overall, this is still great. This only covers the first section (4 floors). I believe she has a video for the others too. The only difference for me is I'd probably withdraw on that diamonds one and try again. But she uses diamonds. It's up to you.
Mercy is very clear and concise.
Note that some of the rewards are a bit different now, because the numbers have changed, but overall, this is still great. This only covers the first section (4 floors). I believe she has a video for the others too. The only difference for me is I'd probably withdraw on that diamonds one and try again. But she uses diamonds. It's up to you.
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Hawk1911
Active Member
VulcanGeek (in-game name, I don't know if she has a forum account, will edit later to give credit where credit is due.) wrote this and wanted to share. Thank you VG!!
Negotiating the early rounds is relatively straightforward. The later become a little harder and need to be more calculated.
6 should negotiate exactly the same as 5, except that in round 1 you offer 1 each of 5 things and hold the 6th in your pocket. If your 1st round result has more than 3 yellow (right good, wrong person), walk away and start over. Mathematically you have to have at least 2 either red or green or a combo as your 1st result, or your 3rd offer will be pure guesswork.
On the 2nd offer you are going to hold out one of the yellows - the one you have the least of - and re-offer the rest plus the one you had in your pocket from the 1st time. If you have enough slots open to offer at least 1 good more than once the 2nd time, make it one of the ones that was yellow the 1st time rather than the one you didn't offer before. And make that doubled offer once in a spot that was yellow last time and once in a red.
A good way to look at it is that you are not trying to place offers correctly in the 2nd round. You are only trying to gain information so that you can place offers correctly in the 3rd round.
There are only 4 times you have 7 items to offer - the Toad and then the first 3 sets of 4 on the 3rd stage of the Spire. 8 is only the last big boss. Same basic pattern - first time offer 1 each while holding 2 or 3 in your pocket, walk away if more than 3 yellow responses, 2nd round hold back one of the 1st-round yellows and bring in the ones from your pocket. With 7 - 8 you'd ideally like to get multiple reds in the 1st offer to completely take those goods off the table.
7 and 8 are the only offers that I will consider using diamonds on, and it has to be a sure thing. Like if the 3rd offer results in 3 green and 2 yellow; it is definite that I just have to swap those 2 yellows. Never use diamonds if the answer is not guaranteed. I just did the Toads level in all 5 cities. Logic'd it out in 3, diamonds once in 2. Normally still make a profit in diamonds each week, plus all the goodies. I love the Spire.
Negotiating the early rounds is relatively straightforward. The later become a little harder and need to be more calculated.
6 should negotiate exactly the same as 5, except that in round 1 you offer 1 each of 5 things and hold the 6th in your pocket. If your 1st round result has more than 3 yellow (right good, wrong person), walk away and start over. Mathematically you have to have at least 2 either red or green or a combo as your 1st result, or your 3rd offer will be pure guesswork.
On the 2nd offer you are going to hold out one of the yellows - the one you have the least of - and re-offer the rest plus the one you had in your pocket from the 1st time. If you have enough slots open to offer at least 1 good more than once the 2nd time, make it one of the ones that was yellow the 1st time rather than the one you didn't offer before. And make that doubled offer once in a spot that was yellow last time and once in a red.
A good way to look at it is that you are not trying to place offers correctly in the 2nd round. You are only trying to gain information so that you can place offers correctly in the 3rd round.
There are only 4 times you have 7 items to offer - the Toad and then the first 3 sets of 4 on the 3rd stage of the Spire. 8 is only the last big boss. Same basic pattern - first time offer 1 each while holding 2 or 3 in your pocket, walk away if more than 3 yellow responses, 2nd round hold back one of the 1st-round yellows and bring in the ones from your pocket. With 7 - 8 you'd ideally like to get multiple reds in the 1st offer to completely take those goods off the table.
7 and 8 are the only offers that I will consider using diamonds on, and it has to be a sure thing. Like if the 3rd offer results in 3 green and 2 yellow; it is definite that I just have to swap those 2 yellows. Never use diamonds if the answer is not guaranteed. I just did the Toads level in all 5 cities. Logic'd it out in 3, diamonds once in 2. Normally still make a profit in diamonds each week, plus all the goodies. I love the Spire.