Creating Space Quest in Dwarves Unacceptable

[HonuMoana]

Greetings,

I must express extreme distaste with the chapter quest "Creating Space." It has occurred for me early in chapter VI. It is non-declinable. It is requiring me to do an "optional" expansion. It is doing so early in the chapter, thus blocking me from the quests that provide real benefit to completion of the chapter. This quest essentially turns an "optional" expansion into a required expansion. This is patently unacceptable. From where I stand, this expansion should either be woven into the techs such that it is necessary, or this quest should be eliminated.

 

[shimmerfly]

I would be a little miffed too!
How can it be "required" and "optional" at the same time.
That stinks. I don't remember having that one. But my rememberer isn't aways so great

 

[Gladiola]

It's research expansion 21. I'm stuck on that quest as well, but I don't mind because I'm just doing the cycling quests from the previous chapter.

There are other quests like this in previous chapters that require completion of an optional expansion.

 

[michmarc]

Note that when you get to the end of the chapter, all of the "mandatory" quests become declinable. Additionally, there is no requirement to do the quests "in order" (that is, you can work on other parts of your tech tree and come back to that. You'll probably have a flurry of quests to pick up all at once).

However, since expansions are probably the single most valuable thing in the game, I don't know why someone wouldn't jump at an expansion tech as soon as it becomes available.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Note that when you get to the end of the chapter, all of the "mandatory" quests become declinable. Additionally, there is no requirement to do the quests "in order" (that is, you can work on other parts of your tech tree and come back to that. You'll probably have a flurry of quests to pick up all at once).

However, since expansions are probably the single most valuable thing in the game, I don't know why someone wouldn't jump at an expansion tech as soon as it becomes available.

More specifically, you can decline quests once you complete the first research at the beginning of the next chapter because the game does not count you as being in the new chapter until after that.

As for the expansion thing, there are these crazy people who are a bit obsessed with keeping their tournament and Spire costs as low as possible and all expansions you place increase the amount of troops or goods you need.

But aside from that, @HonuMoana , just completing an optional research has no impact on those numbers at all, so no reason not to do it. Though some people like to save those optional ones and use them for event quests.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

expansions = good .. do the quest and put up something nice for yourself

 

[Gladiola]

I fall in both categories of people who save optional researches for event quests and people obsessed with keeping my city small (in part because of tourney and Spire costs and also because I want to grow slowly so that as the settlement requirements get huge later on I will have the option to add more expansions to accommodate settlements as well as sentient goods factories, etc.).

Although there are some advantages to "keeping up" with the chapter quests, I don't think it makes that big a difference.

 

[HonuMoana]

Some of the replies here are ignoring the fact that some of the chapter quests in Dwarves give things like granite and copper, only beneficial to that chapter. Waiting to the beginning of the next chapter to decline the quest here means I lose all those benefits, as pretty much the only thing I could do then is build some streets. I wouldn't mind so much if it was a declinable quest. The way the research tree works now expansion 21 is optional, hanging out there all by itself. This quest puts the lie to that. Thus my consternation.

This also falls into the category of leading the players by the nose, and limiting our choices. I don't think either of those things are appropriate in the guest races and beyond. I for one do not enjoy them.

 

[Iyapo1]

The way the research tree works now expansion 21 is optional, hanging out there all by itself. This quest puts the lie to that. Thus my consternation.

iirc This expansion tech was changed to optional in 2020 with the tournament changes. They just did not alter the quest. So I agree this quest should now also be optional.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i save optional squad increases (till they run out) .. but if it's a mandatory quest the optional part doesn't apply .. and it's an expansion the most useful thing in the game .. as far replies ignoring stuff that's just hogwash .. when you finish your advanced scouts of the next chapter, any rewards from quests you have done are still collectable,, even if you decline others .. so either do the quest or not, and try not to displace your angst on to perfectly good responses if you are not having fun or enjoying yourself there are cures for that too

 

[ajqtrz]

However, since expansions are probably the single most valuable thing in the game, I don't know why someone wouldn't jump at an expansion tech as soon as it becomes available.

I did an unusual thing in my beta chapter 5 city. I collected 12 expansions and placed them all at once. It made my exploring very expensive (they are all 'very hard') but it also made me have lots of space for dwarves. And it slowed the whole thing down a lot. BUT.... when I got to chapter 6-- Dwarves --it meant I didn't need the next two research expansions. So for now I'm skipping them. Just another reason you might not want to do the expansions as they come up. Just like everything else their value depends on your circumstances and what you say is their value. Anybody notice a pattern here?

AJ

 

[Huor]

I always put the KP in the optional and research them when the events (or quests) come around that want you to research something. I have a nice pile of expansions in inventory I know I will need one day.

 

[HonuMoana]

"as far replies ignoring stuff that's just hogwash ..

I think the granite and copper would not only be essentially useless, but by the next chapter, if playing the game with progress in mind as I try to do, I wouldn't even have the buildings to collect them. You may think it is "hogwash" but I find the label "hogwash" is more appropriately applied to the quest I have questioned. Your opinion may differ, but I won't choose to denigrate it, as you have.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I think the granite and copper would not only be essentially useless, but by the next chapter, if playing the game with progress in mind as I try to do, I wouldn't even have the buildings to collect them.

Your guest race goods never disappear, you just can't see them any more after moving into a new chapter. So if you are in chapter 7 or later, and you want to make some Dwarf roads for some crazy reason, the granite and copper you had collected will still be hidden away for you to use.

 

[OIM20]

I find the label "hogwash" is more appropriately applied to the quest I have questioned.

May I suggest reformatting the opening post so that it reads as a formal suggestion to Inno to change the parameter of the quest to match the parameter of the tech?

You could use something like this (you may use this exact text, should you wish to):

Spoiler

Proposal: Make chapter quests of optional techs optional / non-required

Changes were made to some of the techs in the tech tree in 2020 (thank you @Iyapo1 for the year) that made those techs optional. However, the quest requiring the research of the tech was not made optional. This may have been an oversight on Inno's part, and I would like to see this changed so that gameplay for those wishing to complete these optional techs later (or not at all) is not limited/restricted.

{insert screen captures: 1-the tech tree with the tech showing no branches off of it; 2-the quest window showing you cannot decline researching that tech}

This is not true in all cases of techs that are optional. You can decline some quests for a chapter within that chapter. For example, in Fairies, the tech "Trees and Lampions" is optional. The quest requesting its completion, "Natural Culture", is also optional and can be declined while still within the Fairies chapter.

Screens:
Fairies tech tree, "Trees and Lampions": Please note the arrows pointing out the lack of connecting branches from this tech, letting players know that it is optional. Please also note that this tree clearly shows that only some progression has been made through the Fairies chapter, so including a decline option on a quest within a chapter is possible.

Fairies quest: "Natural Culture":

I propose that the parameters of quests aligned with optional research techs be altered so that the quests are also optional.

Pros:

• Able to use KP how we choose and ignore optional techs until such time as we wish to complete them
• Players don't feel lied to about a tech being optional when a quest such as "Creating Space" in Dwarves pops up
• Players can proceed through a chapter and take advantage of the guest race goods offered as rewards for quests that come after the required-optional tech completion quest

Cons:

• Developer time to make certain that the parameters of "research completion" quests in all chapters (not just the specific one used as an example here) match the parameters of the tech being researched. For clarity: if the tech is not required to proceed through the tree, the quest should not be required to proceed through the chapter- and thus, the game.

Then the discussion can move to whether making sure the coding matching - that the optional research techs are marked as being optional in the quests that require their completion - is beneficial to players. Because this is something that should have been caught before now, imo. It is possible - and even likely - that no one even thought about it, though, because they're so accustomed to simply completing certain types of quests - like expansions, as they've mentioned throughout the thread thus far. I know I certainly didn't question completing that quest because I complete all expansion researches in the tech tree. (My goals are not, however, everyone's goals, so your gameplay should not be defined by my gameplay.)

And I don't think the developers even thought about the questlines when they made those techs optional. I could be wrong, but the fact that the expansion quest is still required leads me to that conclusion.

But I think the suggestion of having the quest match up and be optional like the tech is an excellent one, @HonuMoana.

 

[Rp44]

I agree that the quest should be declinable since the tech is optional. I am guessing that whoever wrote the questline couldn't imagine someone not wanting an expansion.

Since someone brought it up, I just wanted to mention that that expansion tech was optional when I started playing over two years ago, before the latest tournament changes. I remember specifically because we had a discussion about whether or not to take it in one of my fellowships. The tech before it is an optional squad size upgrade, which made tournaments more expensive in terms of troops at that time. Was the expansion worth it? (yes, to me) It's kind of ironic that now neither of those techs will make tournaments more expensive since they are optional, but placing the expansion will.