Cross Tier Trades

[DeletedUser5521]

Again the difference is size is emphasized.

Yes, because I was responding specifically to your post regarding "the big guys" not taking your trades..

I don't understand "someone else needing the trade". If they need the trade why wouldnt they post it themself?

And although you may not understand it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It does. All the time. I see it in chat. I used to try to change the world, but then I got old and stopped thinking I could. I hope someone takes your trades. Good luck to you

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Count Mein
I used to clear my entire trader a few times per day, but since sentient goods were released, the trader is all jumbled up, and I simply can't be bothered to filter it 9 ways to help out my neighbors.
If they added just 1 filter (remove sentients) I'd probably do it again.
If they also added another filter (remove cross-tier trades) I would absolutely clear all trades several times per day.

 

[samidodamage]

trade fee which tbh I don'y pay much attention to?

I take small trades from neighbors when I'm clearing the trader (not yet to sentient goods; that may change then), but the ones with fees are sorted to the end of my list and I only flip pages until I see those exclamation points appear. I just got in the habit from the start of not paying the fee unless I absolutely had to. For me, that would be the reason your trades were being ignored.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

Yes, because I was responding specifically to your post regarding "the big guys" not taking your trades..


And although you may not understand it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It does. All the time. I see it in chat. I used to try to change the world, but then I got old and stopped thinking I could. I hope someone takes your trades. Good luck to you

Aramina, you misunderstand me. I don't feel demeaned or judged because I'm comparatively new and small. I have a lot of "big guys" in my FS and I can see from the rolls that they get so much bigger than me I can't even imagine. But i'm trying to see ahead. I just get the impression that the ones who have 100K of each goods in inventory don't bother with trades in the few hundred range. And I'm trying to understand why to help me prepare for the day when I'm big too.
BTW, I have no problem getting my trades taken. Thanks for your good wishes.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

@Count Mein
I used to clear my entire trader a few times per day, but since sentient goods were released, the trader is all jumbled up, and I simply can't be bothered to filter it 9 ways to help out my neighbors.
If they added just 1 filter (remove sentients) I'd probably do it again.
If they also added another filter (remove cross-tier trades) I would absolutely clear all trades several times per day.

Soggy, I'm trying to understand the problem with the trader. for me it works fine. I don't even know what sentient goods are. I've just started Dwarves and don't have my first granite mine yet. I don't really understand crafting. But the trader is not just "for helping neighbors" surely. It's to help yourself too. When you need a good isn't the first thing you do to check to see what trades for it are available?

 

[DeletedUser20255]

I take small trades from neighbors when I'm clearing the trader (not yet to sentient goods; that may change then), but the ones with fees are sorted to the end of my list and I only flip pages until I see those exclamation points appear. I just got in the habit from the start of not paying the fee unless I absolutely had to. For me, that would be the reason your trades were being ignored.

My trades are not being ignored. just trying to understand the "big guy" mindset and the problem with the trader.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

When I open the trader I do three things

1. I check for FS trades requesting my boosted goods and take as much as I can

2. I post my own trades. These are almost always to balance my own goods and range between 20k to 100k goods per trade. I expect most of these to be taken by my FS mates.

3. I filter for my boosted goods and take anything that is at least two-star, especially if it's from a small player. Strictly speaking, I will stop when I run low on goods but usually I have enough to clear the page. I do not do cross tier.

 

[mucksterme]

I take small trades all the time. I don't assume someone else needs them, I assume the person who put them up needs them.
My trader system is

1 Run through the trades requesting my boosts. I'll take every fair trade in my T1 and T2. I sometimes have to be a little careful of my T3
2 Check my FS, take what I can
3 Look at what's left. I'll take most of the small stuff. I'm more picky of large trades in my non boosts, it really depends on how good of a neighbor they are.
4 Every few days put up trades to build any non boosts that are getting low

I'm not fond of cross trades, I hardly ever take T3:T1 trades. Even though I'm often sitting on 2 million steel. I just refuse to give someone 16K steel for 1K elixir

 

[SoggyShorts]

But the trader is not just "for helping neighbors" surely. It's to help yourself too. When you need a good isn't the first thing you do to check to see what trades for it are available?

I long ago reached a point where I never "need a good". I keep at least 300K of each in stock(usually 800k), and when I dip below that in say scrolls, then I might check what offers are up, but usually, I just post 100K silk for 100k scrolls 7-8x and the trades get filled over the next 48h.

Soggy, I'm trying to understand the problem with the trader. for me it works fine. I don't even know what sentient goods are.

Goods of the same tier (like planks, marble, steel) are all of equal value, and later in the game it is very easy to get a huge stash. This meant that I could blindly take any same-tier trade, regardless of my boost or stockpile. It didn't matter if I went from 1m of each to 1.2m, 1.4m, 600K, because I could just post 3-4 big trades and it would balance out eventually.
Sentient goods are a special case though. For one, they decay at a rate of 10% per night making it much harder to build up a stockpile.
They also require another special resource to make: divine seeds which are limited. On top of that, the factories that make them are virtually useless 7 months of the year for players at the end of the research tree waiting for a new chapter. This means you don't want to build a bunch of them, just what you need which is 1 single factory.
All of that adds up to sentient goods being rather precious and if you accidentally take a trade that doesn't help you, you might not get a trade that can reverse it for a few days.
To balance this and make the trading of sentient goods possible with only a small portion of the playerbase in chapters 12+, the devs made sentient trades global. This means that every player in chapter 12+ can see every single sentient post from everyone once you unlock them in the tech tree.
Since trades are listed in order of size, my trades available are normal, normal, crosstier, sentient, normal, crosstier, sentient, etc for 67 pages. I have to stop and think about the sentients, and avoid the crosstier, so I don't even bother anymore.

Edit: I just waded through all of that crap, and took every same-tier trade except sentients, and there are 61 pages left of the 67 I started with. So, the trader is 90% crap, and that is why players like me often don't find your 500 plank for steel trades

 

[DeletedUser19723]

Funny how your view of the game changes as you grow. You talk of having a "few k"
I get worried if any goods drop below 100K

I totally agree with you, mucksterme. I think and deal in small numbers. I know it won't always be that way, but it is now at start of Chapter 3. You know what I don't get? I'm boosted steel and scrolls, yet I'm always being asked to supply an amount of marble or crystal for quests and for encounters. I don't have very much of either and it goes as fast as I can acquire it. To buy crystal from the wholesaler is outright ridiculous - very high priced. I check the Trader constantly but marble, and crystal even more so, are offered in trades that are beyond me. The little I get consistently is from my own factories which, I keep reading, I don't even need because it's trade, trade, trade. Well, my trader doesn't seem to working in my best interests, I'm thinking

 

[truelinor]

Wow, I had no clue trading could be so difficult!

Maybe I'll get there one day.

 

[DeletedUser19723]

Edit: I just waded through all of that crap, and took every same-tier trade except sentients, and there are 61 pages left of the 67 I started with. So, the trader is 90% crap, and that is why players like me often don't find your 500 plank for steel trades

So I guess the Trader grows as you do, i.e. the bigger the world, the more neighbors, etc.? I never have more than 7 pages, most of the trades grayed out because I can't do the trade.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I check the Trader constantly

As a smaller player, you will almost never find trades that you can take. It is far far more effective to post trades that you want.

Look at it this way, you are in chapter 3, so if we assume that everyone in chapter 4+ can afford your size of trade, that means when you post 80% of players can take your trade, but when you search, you can only take 20% of trades. Much better to post than to search until mid game.
Also a balanced FS helps a lot

So I guess the Trader grows as you do, i.e. the bigger the world, the more neighbors, etc.? I never have more than 7 pages, most of the trades grayed out because I can't do the trade.

Normally you can see trades from your 200 closest neighbors or all neighbors that you have discovered on the map, whichever is higher*
Once you reach chapter 12 though, you can see every chapter 12+ player's sentient goods trades in the whole world, increasing the number of trades you see by a ridiculous amount IMO.

 

[DeletedUser19723]

As a smaller player, you will almost never find trades that you can take. It is far far more effective to post trades that you want.

Look at it this way, you are in chapter 3, so if we assume that everyone in chapter 4+ can afford your size of trade, that means when you post 80% of players can take your trade, but when you search, you can only take 20% of trades. Much better to post than to search until mid game.
Also a balanced FS helps a lot

Okay, I can try posting trades I want. Thanks for that suggestion.
As for the balanced FS - I think it's pretty balanced but not enough of the members post trades. I could try Chat to ask for help?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Okay, I can try posting trades I want. Thanks for that suggestion.
As for the balanced FS - I think it's pretty balanced but not enough of the members post trades. I could try Chat to ask for help?

For sure, a player may have exactly what you need and just pop in for a minute without checking the trader. I always encourage our members to post "Trade up, need some steel" in chat.
If you are posting for the world, offer 1 more good than you are asking for. This will change your trade from a 2 star rating to a 3 star rating and move it to the top of the list for players to see.

 

[DeletedUser188]

As far as "cross tier" trades go I never take them there is no "need" for CT trading in Elvenar ,only players that "want" to do it
If you don't believe me look at research tree
We are not asked for specific tier goods for research until after the goods are researched so there is no need
That is just my opinion but a lot of players I talk with agree

The only players that "want" to CT trade
1. They "want" to only build their T3 manufactories (for higher score)
2. They cant fight on the map anymore and "want" to negotiate in rings that need higher age goods
3.They are impatient and "want" everything right now

just trying to understand the "big guy" mindset

What you are experiencing isn't a "Big Guy" mindset
It just happens to be the mindset of the individual "big guys"you interact with
I dont speak for other "big players" just myself(I am not a big player I just hang out with a few of them)
I play on Arendyll and am in the #1 FS(according to @elvenstats we are #2 in all worlds on all servers)
My trading routine is simple
I use the filters so the trades I don't want to see I don't see
I check all my boosted goods if there are players(FS or neighbors) looking for my boost I take all "fair" trades regardless of size or if I actually need them
When I am done with that I will post any trades that I need and they are scooped up relatively quick(couple of hrs at most)
Having an excess of unfair trades in my trader doesn't bother me at all and has no adverse effect on my game play
We have great communication in our FS so when someone needs something specific they ask in chat or message and gets taken care of ASAP
Not sure if its relevant but I only have only played on the PC version

As a smaller player, you will almost never find trades that you can take. It is far far more effective to post trades that you want.

@SherG26Thats the best advise anyone can give you about trading along with building boosted only goods
Fortunately for me I knew that on day 1 and never wasted time doing anything else

 

[Mykan]

But i'm trying to see ahead. I just get the impression that the ones who have 100K of each goods in inventory don't bother with trades in the few hundred range. And I'm trying to understand why to help me prepare for the day when I'm big too.

My trades are not being ignored. just trying to understand the "big guy" mindset and the problem with the trader

I think you are confusing big guy mindset and problem with the trader, they are not the same thing. The big guy mindset is simple and it has to do with qty of goods not chapter. If you have a total of 100K goods in a tier you might be posting trades from 2-10K to balance things up, if you have 1mil+ you might be posting 50-100k+ (maybe some small 10-20k ones). You are only allowed to post 60 trades, most people post those in several smaller bites to increasse the chance they will be taken and it helps provide more opportunity for a variety of people. The last thing you want to do is post 2k trades when you need 200k of a good of just one type, its kinda painful.

The other aspect of the "big guy mindset" from my experience is they are generous in accepting trades. Not necessarily that they will take 1 star trades, but in that they will accept small trades. Often people with large goods qty's like to clear the trader of trades and to help out their fellowship and growing players.

The problem with the trader however is along the lines of:

• Lack of filters to sift through trades you don't want. The more provinces scouted and the later in the game (sentient goods) the worse this gets as you can access more people and more good types. I was surprised to find I had 70+ pages of trades the other day, sadly 60+ of those I didn't want to even look at (cross-tier or sentient). Trying to find the trades I want mixed in amongst those I didn't is very difficult.
• Mass amounts of cross-tier trades
• People don't post what they need, too often they make the mistake of assuming someone will post what they want. Sadly we are gamer's not mind-readers. Timezones also effect such assumptions. Inno has also acknowledged this is a big issue in the game.
• Trading rules and assuming someone else will grab the trade. Sadly too often every assumes someone else will grab it and no one ever does. It comes back to the concept of "post what you need always" not relying on the trade to be there when you need it.

When you need a good isn't the first thing you do to check to see what trades for it are available?

One would assume so but there is a difference between "need" for balancing and "need" because you have no goods. If you are doing the later often I would suggest the first thing you do is go look at your town and its production. You only need a small amount of factories to be able to build a decent (1 mil+) of each good type. The other possibility is your over extending yourself in tournaments/world map catering.

Balancing wise you have a lot more time to post and get the trades depending on your balance of goods and frequency/amt of spend. Trading is a whole lot simpler when you have no urgency to your trades and nice that even in that case most trades go in under 24hrs.

edit: added an extra point to trader issues

 

[DeletedUser20255]

I think you are confusing big guy mindset and problem with the trader.,They are not the same thing. The big guy mindset is simply and it has to do with qty of goods not chapter. If you have a total of 100K goods in a tier you might be posting trades from 2-10K to balance things up, if you have 1mil+ you might be posting 50-100k+ (maybe some small 10-20k ones). You are only allowed to post 60 trades, most people post those in several smaller bites to increasse the chance they will be taken and it helps provide more opportunity for a variety of people. The last thing you want to do is post 2k trades when you need 200k of a good of just one type, its kinda painful.

The other aspect of the "big guy mindset" from my experience is they are generous is accepting trades. Not necessarily they will take 1 star trades but in that they will accept small trades. Often people with large goods qty's like to clear the trader of trades and to help out their fellowship and growing players.

The problem with the trader however is along the lines of:

• Lack of filters to sift through trades you don't want. The more provinces scouted and the later in the game (sentient goods) the worse this gets as you can access more people and more good types. I was surprised to find I had 70+ pages of trades the other day, sadly 60+ of those I didn't want to even look at (cross-tier or sentient). Trying to find the trades I want mixed in amongst those I didn't is very difficult.
• Mass amounts of cross-tier trades
• People don't post what they need, too often they make the mistake of assuming someone will post what they want. Sadly we are gamer's not mind-readers. Timezones also effect such assumptions. Inno has also acknowledged this is a big issue in the game.

One would assume so but there is a difference between "need" for balancing and "need" because you have no goods. If you are doing the later often I would suggest the first thing you do is go look at your town and its production. You only need a small amount of factories to be able to build a decent (1 mil+) of each good type. The other possibility is your over extending yourself in tournaments/world map catering.

Balancing wise you have a lot more time to post and get the trades depending on your balance of goods and frequency/amt of spend. Trading is a whole lot simpler when you have no urgency to your trades and nice that even in that case most trades go in under 24hrs.

Very helpful. Thanks

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So I guess the Trader grows as you do, i.e. the bigger the world, the more neighbors, etc.? I never have more than 7 pages, most of the trades grayed out because I can't do the trade.

The server/world you are on and the activeness of discovered neighbors makes a big difference in what shows up in the Trader. If you have discovered 100 neighbors, but 90 of them no longer play, then you will not see much in the Trader outside of what your Fellowship may post. The time of day or night that you play can even be a factor in how much shows up. If you are never online when the more active traders are, and their trades are taken quickly, then you will never see them. As for number of pages of trades, I will use me as an example. I am in Halflings, which is two chapters from the current final chapter. I have explored enough to open the chest for the Amuni chapter, so I have a lot of discovered neighbors. My Fellowship currently has 20 active members. All the trades in my trader are still just for the regular nine goods. Depending on the time of day I log in, I have seen as few as four pages of trades and as many as 20 to 30. I almost never see trades from non-discovered neighbors any more. And when I do, I try to explore in their direction, so that I can discover them and avoid the trader fee. This is a big reason why I have explored so much. lol

So if there are never any trades for you, put up some of your own or try logging in at different times of day than you usually do. If you are in a Fellowship that never seems to post trades, ask in chat about it, or maybe find one that is a better fit for you. A lot of Fellowships try to balance their membership based on their boosted goods, but many do not. If you are in a Fellowship where a lot of other members have the same boosts as you, you will never see any trades for the non-boosted goods that you need.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

On another note about the Trader, this is something I will do when I have the time to compare all the trades available. I will look at all the trades, not just at what I may want or need. Then I will see if two players are asking for the opposite things. For example, one player is asking for 1000 steel for 1000 planks and another player is asking for 1000 planks for 1000 steel. I will take an equal number of trades from both, so they both get what they need, even though my numbers do not change in doing so. I will especially do this if the two players are on opposite sides of me on the map, since they will probably not have discovered each other and probably never see each other's trades.