Cross trading

[Alram]

My city is balanced. If I take T3:T2 trades i will have too many T3s(mine and yours) and not enough T2s because I gave my T2s to you for T3s which I dont need because my city is balanced. I need T2s. I can then trade the T3s I got from you for the T2s I need, or I can redesign my city so you dont have to redesign yours, or I can just not take cross trades.

Some players prefer a play style where their goods are balanced within each tier in quantities sufficient to allow them to progress in the game. They prefer to do this the simplest way possible by taking 1:1 same tier trades.

2 star same tier only is about as simple as it gets. I like simple. It gives me more time to play city tetris.

 

[Iyapo1]

Anyone who is unhappy about the excess T3 down trades rotting on the market needs to know that same tier trades are moving faster than everything except cross trades offering T2s. Trades offering T2s for T1s and T3s are getting snatched in all my worlds. Even on Harander when they ask for steel.

If you dont like cross trades and dont want to take cross trades....ignore them and post what you need, the same tier trade market is in good shape!

If you are over producing T3s in your city...well your trades may sit for a while unless you undercut the competition by offering three stars.

 

[Myne]

Anyone who is unhappy about the excess T3 down trades rotting on the market needs to know that same tier trades are moving faster than everything except cross trades offering T2s. Trades offering T2s for T1s and T3s are getting snatched in all my worlds. Even on Harander when they ask for steel.

TRUTH

 

[shimmerfly]

- that would allow everyone to play as they wanted without the bad vibes one sometimes gets from players who think they know better.

Well, then, don't reply to it when you see it. That will make it much shorter and not trigger, probably unneeded, responses, like this one!

AJ

 

[Vergazi]

If you don't want the trade then don't take it. no one is twisting your arm. and...people still are talking about cross-trades??? smh

 

[Myne]

First, the player rules you see are two. One says "no cross tier trades" and may be modified for special circumstances depending on the fellowship, but it is, in general a restriction on cross tier trades. The second is no 0 or 1 star trades, and again, there may be circumstances the fellowship has about those rules. I'm not against a fellowship having these rules, but against using them to coerce others into obeying them by calling them "gougers" and, in general treating them as bad players: AND in insisting and teaching others by example and by word of mouth that the star system actually tells players the value of the trade -- not the comparative cost of producing the goods -- but the value. In the first case -- putting down and disrespecting other people -- is just not good for a healthy social environment because it uses "coercion or implied threats of coercion" rather than sound reasoning to persuade. The second perpetuates a myth that it often harmful to the player's progression.

It won't adjust anything in the game but eventually, the players will adjust to the conditions of the game. Trading, being part of the routes to that adjustment, if it's taught incorrectly (i.e. that the value of a trade is measured by the star system and everybody should just use the star system to measure the trade), leads to less flexibility in trades and, in the end, the less flexible a trading system the slower the trades and, more importantly, the slower it's adjustment to supply/demand changes.

I have never seen these player rules posted by Elvenar. I have only rarely seen restrictions in fellowships. I do have a rule against 0 or 1 star trades without notification. The rules I have are not, nor have they ever been, used to coerce others. In my fellowship we accept the judgement of Elvenar in assessed value of the goods, and most others I know do the same. Others may not and that is their business.
No one here has put down or disrespected another that I have seen. I do not understand why you insist on saying this. Opinions are expressed here. I have stated that I do not agree with 0 or 1 star trades without good reason. IN MY OPINION if you consistently do this, you are attempting to make a profit, or yes, gouging others. This is not the way I choose to play.
With regard to being taught incorrectly....who are you to pass judgement on others teaching methods? You don't want it passed on you, so stop preaching you know best. There are many ways to play this game. Burying your judgements in a mashup of word salad doesn't change the fact that you are judging.
In the classic words of my childhood...you ain't my daddy and you don't get to tell me what to do.

 

[ajqtrz]

I have never seen these player rules posted by Elvenar. I have only rarely seen restrictions in fellowships. I do have a rule against 0 or 1 star trades without notification. The rules I have are not, nor have they ever been, used to coerce others. In my fellowship we accept the judgement of Elvenar in assessed value of the goods, and most others I know do the same. Others may not and that is their business.
No one here has put down or disrespected another that I have seen. I do not understand why you insist on saying this. Opinions are expressed here. I have stated that I do not agree with 0 or 1 star trades without good reason. IN MY OPINION if you consistently do this, you are attempting to make a profit, or yes, gouging others. This is not the way I choose to play.
With regard to being taught incorrectly....who are you to pass judgement on others teaching methods? You don't want it passed on you, so stop preaching you know best. There are many ways to play this game. Burying your judgements in a mashup of word salad doesn't change the fact that you are judging.
In the classic words of my childhood...you ain't my daddy and you don't get to tell me what to do.

They are not Elvenar rules, they are player rules -- rules players make up and thus Elvenar, itself, has nothing to do with them. Your rule against posting 0 or 1 star trades without notification is one of them.

The judgement of Elvenar is not a judgement about value, but about cost. Their calculations are based upon production costs and, as I've been arguing consistently, if you choose to trade by value to you rather than cost to produce, you should be free to do so. In fact, the game acknowledges that since it allows you to value your goods up to 8 times more than the production costs evaluation upon which the star system is built.

Rules which are posted in the fellowship page and/or announced by the AM or a Mage, imply punishment for not following those rules. The ability to punish is a form of coercion. On the other hand, if a player joins a fellowship with such rules he or she is agreeing to them and thus, the punishment is what the player chooses when he or she breaks the rule.

Coercion is not teaching. Teaching is when you have an open and frank conversation about the subject, acknowledging the valid points and challenging the invalid. Coercion is judging a persons behavior is bad enough to label "gouger" or some other derogatory term, or otherwise punish them.

They are not teaching, they are ruling. And even if they are teaching, if they are teaching things that are untrue, or incomplete, they are teaching things that can harm the player they are teaching.

There are two kinds of judgment. The first says, "you are a a bad person because you do this," the other says, "this is not a good thing to do." The first is directed at the person and is not, nor has it ever been, something I've done (I can't promise that's 100%, but it's pretty rare). The second is pointing out a behavior and saying it's bad.

Finally, in my "mash of words" I must point out that making moral judgments is just part of how we find our way through life. It is impossible to live without morals and even the worst of bad people have some..."don't get caught" being, perhaps, the chief one in really bad people. The difference between making such moral judgments and not is where your focus lays. I focus on the actions, not the person and the only way, as I've said above, for a person to be harmed by my opinion is to either agree with me they are doing something they shouldn't, or take my opinions way too personally.

AJ

 

[Myne]

TL/DR

 

[Nerwa]

TL/DR

Pretty much how I feel about the whole thread, lol. I keep coming back to see if it's still going (on-going train wreck sort of thing), but read it? Nah.

 

[muffy.]

If you don't want the trade then don't take it. no one is twisting your arm. and...people still are talking about cross-trades??? smh

I admit it.....I twisted their arms ..,it was me