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    Your Elvenar Team

Cross trading

DeletedUser30612

Guest
One problem with
But @Alram's suggestion will work. Add T1s and T2s in the space not being used by T3s. I have 9 planks, 10 scrolls, and 4 dust. I am short T2s so I am tweaking my city about to add even more T2s.

There are other scroll boosted players in Harandar, you don’t need to supply the whole world with scrolls
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@Snowberri You are right I dont have to supply the whole world. But right now there is a scroll shortage on Harander, so I decided to supply my little corner of the world to the best of my ability. I take every single 2 star same tier scroll trade I can. I only take same tier because, as mentioned above my T2s are my lowest teir.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
You were not unclear.

I suggested that players disgusted with the rotting cross tier trades should simply post their own 2 star same tier trades. I pointed out that 2 star same tier trades are getting picked up(Harander exceptions). I did not call for Inno intervention in any of my posts on this thread.

Of course not. Inno does not release such info. All I have is what I have seen and heard.
Your assertion "that the intervention by Inno actually came after the scrolls problem had already gone a long way in resolving itself", becomes even more baseless if you deny that one of the reasons it was "resolving itself" was because a lot of scroll players quit.

I did miss read you many posts on the 'fix" for the problem. I suspect I was just assuming it and didn't do a good job of actually tracking. I'm am sorry.

As for the reason it was resolving itself being scroll players quit, it appears more likely that scroll players just lowered their scrolls production and replaced them with T3. You have scrolls mfrs in storage and so did I. You did mention you might have to bring them back out? In any case, as a scroll booted player I simply reduced my production and put in T3. Now I've taken the T3 out and put two scrolls mfrs back in. I suspect more players have made those kind of adjustments than up and quit, but that's something we cannot determine with any confidence without better data.

In addition, while your solution might work, just shifting production would work much faster than restricting T2 to 2 star trades. The more goods flow the easier it is for things to balance out, and cross tier trading adds a lot more flow while restricting trades to same tier reduces it.

Again, I'm sorry if I concluded from you many posts that you thought it would take an intervention by Inno to fix the problem. I was apparently wrong about that.

AJ
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
How do you suck off others? The only thing you can do is posting offers. If someone takes the cross-tier trade, than that person ist happy with this trade and nothing is wrong with that. Nobody is forced to have a balanced production.

I don't see what all the fuss is about if you don't like them, you should ignore them
Communication options in this game suck so it's simply easier to assume that any trade that one of your friends posts is a trade that they need, so you take it.
An empty trader is a healthy trader, and It's easy to pop in 4+ times per day and powerclick the trader until you've taken everything, but if cross-tier landmines are spread throughout the pages it suddenly becomes a chore (I stopped clearing out the world trader years ago)
We've had several players quit over the years because we wouldn't take their terrible trades. "The game says this i s a fair ratio, so if you don't take my trades you're a crappy FS"
@ed1960
How long did players kick around the idea that the old 16:4:1 trade ratio was flawed before it got changed to the current ratio?
I saw the flaw when I started playing about 5-6 years ago, and it took several months for inno to even understand the issue, then several years to implement a change.
Down to removing my sole T3 manufactory.
Yup, after you've been in the "event buildings give me T3" chapters for a while your factory ratio very quickly approaches x:x:0
 
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Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
In addition, while your solution might work, just shifting production would work much faster than restricting T2 to 2 star trades.
Which brings us right back to the idea that I "should" redesign my city to accommodate T3 down traders so the T3 down traders dont need to redesign their cities to accommodate my same tier trades.
I am sure there are players who would be willing to do that. I am not. My T2s are worth T2s to me. Give me T2s or get T2s from someone else...free trade.
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
An empty trader is a healthy trader
My second city actually had a few days of 0 listings in the beginning. I thought it was a bug, but when I asked in chat if their traders were broken, they said no. I was in the barren desert so there weren’t that many cities around for a neighborhood. We were more like a scattering of nomads. My friend dragged me into this FS with a bunch of late chapter cities that seemed to live on osmosis listing and taking 0 trades while I was a brand spanking new city. So there were days when I had zero listings in my traders, but it was not healthy! My little city almost shriveled up and died. I’d have to holler in chat for someone to pass by to get them to pick up my trades or wait for my friend who dragged me there to show up, but she is 3hrs behind me in time zone. She sold it to me as a casual FS and it would be like a relaxing second vacation home for my elf in Europe. LIES!!! I found myself a street urchin with a tin cup trying to survive. Be weary of people selling you Elfin vacation homes in Europe!

(I also over-course corrected and started my own FS. Don’t do that either! Responsibilities and stuff! Also not vacation home material!)
 

Bellerefon

Active Member
redesign my city to accommodate T3 down traders so the T3 down traders dont need to redesign their cities to accommodate my same tier trades

Imo, you shouldn't. Free market rules apply eventually (that is before mods interfere). If everyone T3 and down crosses then petty T1, T2 will start to increase their value. Balanced cities and tier to tier trades will always have you covered.

As i said before, cross trade is a temp anomaly. Inefficiency or cunningness, i do not care. You can help someone if you feel that is needed to cure this, but not as a habit, only as a way to reach balance.

Nerfing the rate a bit more would help; mods (but not too much :cool: )
 

Lemon Wren

Active Member
Yup, after you've been in the "event buildings give me T3" chapters for a while your factory ratio very quickly approaches x:x:0

Lol, I'm seeing that, though it makes no sense to me why the game is built this way. I already have a piece of the Moonstone set that if I upgrade I'll lose the tools (which I really need) for more T3, which I totally don't.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
Which brings us right back to the idea that I "should" redesign my city to accommodate T3 down traders so the T3 down traders dont need to redesign their cities to accommodate my same tier trades.
I am sure there are players who would be willing to do that. I am not. My T2s are worth T2s to me. Give me T2s or get T2s from someone else...free trade.

Actually, in the long run, as others have noted, the pressure to 'redesign" your city is just as much on the ones who are over producing T3 and eventually, they will find, the excess T3 they are producing will bring the value of that T3 down. When that happens...the realization, not the actual perceived lower value of T3 which is already there... they too, will have to redesign their cities. That's the thing about open markets. If you have them you have to pay attention and adjust constantly ...or suffer the cost of producing and selling your goods at lower than the market will bear or not being able to get the goods you need because you can't or won't pay the current market price. Personally, I find the whole open market makes my game play more enjoyable as I have to consider all that too.

AJ
 

LisaMV

Well-Known Member
My second city actually had a few days of 0 listings in the beginning. I thought it was a bug, but when I asked in chat if their traders were broken, they said no. I was in the barren desert so there weren’t that many cities around for a neighborhood. We were more like a scattering of nomads. My friend dragged me into this FS with a bunch of late chapter cities that seemed to live on osmosis listing and taking 0 trades while I was a brand spanking new city. So there were days when I had zero listings in my traders, but it was not healthy! My little city almost shriveled up and died. I’d have to holler in chat for someone to pass by to get them to pick up my trades or wait for my friend who dragged me there to show up, but she is 3hrs behind me in time zone. She sold it to me as a casual FS and it would be like a relaxing second vacation home for my elf in Europe. LIES!!! I found myself a street urchin with a tin cup trying to survive. Be weary of people selling you Elfin vacation homes in Europe!

(I also over-course corrected and started my own FS. Don’t do that either! Responsibilities and stuff! Also not vacation home material!)
:D omg I am sound asleep and still cannot stop laughing out loud! Oh my, you are quite the wit!
thanks
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
The issue for me, even while accepting Inno's 2-star rating of fairness in all cross-tier trades, is the balance of goods within each Tier. More and more, to a frightening extent now, ALL I see in my traders (4 cities) is "gimme gimme gimme T1 & T2, but I will only offer T3".

What is this doing for the whole balance of the game, even more so if it continues unabated?

I am a non-fighter, and as a 100% caterer in 13-15 chest & gold spire Fellowships, I can watch the goods supply/demand go up or down very clearly.
The updates change things substantially over time. Ever since Inno's response to the Moonstone Debacle, my T2s have been lowest in every city, in spite of my quickly adding another T2 factory, and having two constantly enchanted. In their effort to balance things toward the earlier chapter players, I have also seen a huge increase in T1 demands, and have put more of those in as well.

I think both these changes were sorely needed, and a good thing. Unfortunately, the result is that everyone seems to have tons of T3's, and now rely too heavily on those to trade for the others.

I have always adjusted my cities rather quickly as a caterer, but yes - many people do not bother since they perhaps cannot see the trend as quickly as I can = every friday afternoon:
"omg! Where did all my planks go! what!!?! am I back in chapter THREE now?!":eek:
Sure makes one a quick learner.
I see the same things going on as you do. This is why I have 6 t1 and 6 t2 factories but only 4 t3s. And it gets worse in later chapters when research techs take over a million t1 and t2 each (and sometimes two goods at around those numbers at the same time). I recently had a tech take, if memory serves, 1.8 million scrolls. And with scrolls so badly in short supply now that the Moonstone is changed (which I agree, is a good thing), those techs are killing me so I find myself going much more slowly now.

I was a caterer until chapter 9, so I did use a huge amount of goods and did cross trades, on occasion, but I am just as likely to trade 2000 planks for 1200 scrolls, on a 3star cross trade, as I am to go from a higher level to a lower. (Cross trades always get a good 3 star bargain from me, since I know the revulsion some players have in taking cross tiers and I don't want to turn anyone off to helping me.)
 

Killy-

Active Member
Communication options in this game suck so it's simply easier to assume that any trade that one of your friends posts is a trade that they need, so you take it.
An empty trader is a healthy trader, and It's easy to pop in 4+ times per day and powerclick the trader until you've taken everything, but if cross-tier landmines are spread throughout the pages it suddenly becomes a chore (I stopped clearing out the world trader years ago)
We've had several players quit over the years because we wouldn't take their terrible trades. "The game says this i s a fair ratio, so if you don't take my trades you're a crappy FS"

I never had this issue in any of my fs. Even with same tier trades I have never seen anyone to demand a trade to be taken. I can't see how this would be a cross-tier problem, seems to be a personality problem.^^
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
So there were days when I had zero listings in my traders, but it was not healthy!
Impossible.
Either your trader was empty which meant everyone had what they needed(healthy), or you posted trades that no one took in which case the trader was not empty.
So, my statement stands: An empty trader is a healthy trader.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I never had this issue in any of my fs. Even with same tier trades I have never seen anyone to demand a trade to be taken.
"demand"? No, but absolutely if you are in a FS and your team mates are either unwilling or unable to take your trades you should consider moving on.
I can't see how this would be a cross-tier problem, seems to be a personality problem.^^
Simple, see my point above and consider that cross traders mistakenly think it is their fellows who are at fault when cross trades sit untaken forever.
 

Killy-

Active Member
Simple, see my point above and consider that cross traders mistakenly think it is their fellows who are at fault when cross trades sit untaken forever.

I still don't see, how that would be the fault of cross-tier? Otherwise if I am in a fellowship with way too many steel players and nobody takes my steel trades, I might mistankenly think it is the fault of my fs, when my same tier trades won't be taken.
If your city is placed at a half decend place at the map you might not even need your fs for your trades at least in my experience. No cross-tier trade sits more than a day in the trader for me.
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
Impossible.
Either your trader was empty which meant everyone had what they needed(healthy), or you posted trades that no one took in which case the trader was not empty.
So, my statement stands: An empty trader is a healthy trader.
Well yeah, of course abandoned cities have what they needed (enough fill of sand), but they're as healthy as the dead. My trader can be as healthy as kale, but I lived in an unhealthy neighborhood with the dead and sand dunes for neighbors and played in an unhealthy FS full of solo artists pretending to be in a band.

I was in close contact with my active neighbors because (surprise) I'll talk to everyone and it's in my interest the remaining 4 do not abandon their posts too so I'll try to help them if I can. I know they are not regular daily players because it takes a few days for the ravens to return with a response. It makes sense as prob only casual players are left. It's not surprising then that they don't always post stuff in the trader for there to be activity. I stuck around as long as I did partly because I didn't know better. My US city started in the desert too, though only in 2 directions. My EN city started with desert in 3 directions. I could see some semblance of a small civilization to the far west, but well beyond my 10th ring so no trading with them freely until at least Chap 8. I was in the postnatal ward with a small cluster of new cities on the fringe of the world. Hence, I thought ALL baby cities were birthed in the desert until someone taught me the trick that you can visit someone's city, then click the globe to take them to their location on the map. Did that with both cities through the whole lineup to learn I'm the only one in the desert in both FSs!

As the owner of a chap 13 city now, I do understand larger cities not needing to post trades often as I rarely list anything these days myself. But that's a sign THEY lived in a healthy neighborhood if no one in my FS lists trades. Why did I stop listing trades too? Because I already pleaded with the Archmage TWICE to send a PSA out to remind everyone to not forget the little guys and check their traders, but it fell on deaf ears because bad habits are hard to break I guess. Yes, it was faster to sit in chat repeatedly typing /who until someone came along to ask them to pick up my rotting trades, but eventually, I stopped that too because it felt like I'm singling them out in public for dropping the ball again. I'm not here to make people feel bad and don't want their apologies, nor am I interested in ruffling feathers as the new kid of the FS. I'm just trying to survive the desert! As my friend roped me into this FS, I will at least hold her accountable for my trade situation so I just wait for her.
 

Huor

Well-Known Member
One change I've made these days when I use the trader, which I have found to be easier, is I no longer filter by demand. I filter by what your offering. Saves a whole heck of a lot of time.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I still don't see, how that would be the fault of cross-tier?
As we've shown in this and dozens of other threads ross-tier trades are extremely hard to make "fair", so there is often a feeling of resentment on one end of the trade. By simply enforcing a FS rule that each player must balance their own city among tiers you prevent any player from unbalancing another.
Otherwise, if I am in a fellowship with way too many steel players and nobody takes my steel trades, I might mistankenly think it is the fault of my fs, when my same tier trades won't be taken.
But that's not mistaken. If your steel trades sit untaken that is in fact the fault of your FS. You either need more active or bigger FS members who can handle your trades. The entire boost system in this game is designed for players to make 1 of 3 goods and swap for the other two. If you FS fails to do so then it needs addressing.
 
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