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    Your Elvenar Team

Cross trading

hello fellow gamers. I have long wanted to put this out but I know a lot of people will get crazed about it but I am going to do it anyway because I see it as a huge pitfall. While everyone thinks its easier to cross trade and sees it as an equal trade I don't know if people realize that they are loosing goods when you accept Tier 3 goods for T1 and T2. It takes more goods especially for T1 goods to equal T3 so its really not an equal trade. To me it should be the other way around. People should be trading T1 goods to get T2 or T3 goods if they want to cross trade. The other pitfall I am seeing with this method of attaining goods is especially for T2 people are not producing enough of that Tier. Thats all I see is mostly T3 goods given for T2 goods. This may not be so but its how it looks to a person trying to trade. so now I know this is not going to be a popular view but I am putting it out anyway hoping that it may click with some people. happy gaming to all either way :)
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Thats all I see is mostly T3 goods given for T2 goods. This may not be so but its how it looks to a person trying to trade.
That is all you see because a lot of the T3:T2 trades
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sit in the trader and rot. The T2:T2 trades get taken so you dont see them unless your timing is perfect. The quickest solution is to post T2:T2 trades, they will get taken and you wont need to worry about all the T3:T2 trades still sitting on the market.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
while in other games, there would be a cost in lower
Tier goods to make higher Tier goods, that is not the
case in Elvenar..... the ratios are set by InnoGames....
1 : 1.5 : 2.25 ... basically 50%+ to go up a tier.

I don't know if people realize that they are loosing goods when you accept Tier 3 goods for T1 and T2.
you are not losing anything comparing the following 2 deals.
2250 marble , demanding 1000 elixer
1000 elixer , demanding 2250 marble

Too many ppl think , ohh I'll just make T3 and trade for the other 2.
no matter what the goods are, when everyone does the same thing
then a glut of that good is inevitable.

With the addition of F.Ruins set, there is even more T3 floating
around the system now......
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Although a two star cross trade shouldn't cause any distress to anyone, and in my mind is just as "equal"as a two star trade of the same level, I understand that there is a perception of unfairness left over from the old days, when 2 star cross tiers were indeed unequal and people could gain an advantage by selling t3s for t1s. Because of this lingering perception, I always do three-star crosstrades, just to compensate for the oldtimers' (people who have played this game for 2 or more years) negative views.
 

Huor

Guest
In my opinion, the great migration has blown t1/t2 trades out of the water. It is hard to find t1/t2 for t1/t2. t1/t2 for any form of t3, all day long. When I see them, I almost always take them. If a new player reads this, be careful as you upgrade buildings! Your t1/t2 producer may be better off staying that way! Don't get me wrong, the migration has been great for many things, but all these big cities together sure seems to make t1/t2 pretty tough. lol.
 
In my opinion, the great migration has blown t1/t2 trades out of the water. It is hard to find t1/t2 for t1/t2. t1/t2 for any form of t3, all day long. When I see them, I almost always take them. If a new player reads this, be careful as you upgrade buildings! Your t1/t2 producer may be better off staying that way! Don't get me wrong, the migration has been great for many things, but all these big cities together sure seems to make t1/t2 pretty tough. lol.
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yes i agree new players I will always take the cross trades. totally understandable. in my fs i will even do 0 star trades to help boost them goods.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Although a two star cross trade shouldn't cause any distress to anyone, and in my mind is just as "equal"as a two star trade of the same level, I understand that there is a perception of unfairness left over from the old days,
There is also the perception of balance. My city is balanced. If I take T3:T2 trades i will have too many T3s(mine and yours) and not enough T2s because I gave my T2s to you for T3s which I dont need because my city is balanced. I need T2s. I can then trade the T3s I got from you for the T2s I need, or I can redesign my city so you dont have to redesign yours, or I can just not take cross trades. I can see why down cross trades are offered at 3 stars and I dont even like three star trades.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Watching.
Where's the popcorn?
Listen to Iyapo, she is a pure caterer and Darielle, who has given trading a lot of thought to this issue.

As far as me, I recommend that you build more of what you need and not what you don't, and post a few trades just slightly weighted to 3 stars initially to promote interest. Write your trading partners and thank them.
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
So far, I haven't had that experience with both my main city in Sinya Arda and my baby city in Felyndral. I put up my own trade requests when needed and they usually get picked up by the neighborhood, or the fellowship (have you joined a [semi-]active fellowship with exciting flavors of trade?).

As for personal experience with active t1-t3 trading in Sinya Arda, my neighborhood does indeed trend towards t3 goods with cross-trading. If there was a shortage of anything, it'd be t2 (and the trading activity in that tier is still healthy). I've got at least one FA-dedicated city nearby that pumps out t1 goods like nobody's business (and boy howdy do those cities look awesome in a clean-lines industrialized way), so a lot of trades that aren't between the t2's are usually cross trades towards that tier. When I talked to the higher ranked people in my fellowship, they've lightly commented on the complete opposite: t3 stuff is much harder to come by and that they're swimming in t1 goods, and the fact that I'm in a neighborhood that trends towards t3 is an awesome thing to have.
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Your personal experiences will vary depending on the server, fellowship, and neighborhood you're in. The best situation to be in, I think, is where the shortcomings or strengths of one can beautifully compliment the shortcomings or strengths of the other. Where all goods regardless of tier, are perfectly fungible in any direction you please. In that regard, I feel truly blessed.

As for practical solutions that doesn't involve being more proactive with trading, writing a complaint about being in a dead neighborhood, or upending your current social network and/or friends in your current fellowship to join another that does the sort of trades you need for your city? As has been suggested in a post before this one, try changing the ratio of productions to favor the tier that you can cross-tier trade towards the easiest. If you've been actively doing Spire, you should have a few teleport spells to stuff the not-as-needed-but-still-valuable manufactories into cold storage so you don't have to recreate them in the event your adjustments didn't do what you want.
 
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Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Watching.
Where's the popcorn?
Listen to Iyapo, she is a pure caterer and Darielle, who has given trading a lot of thought to this issue.

As far as me, I recommend that you build more of what you need and not what you don't, and post a few trades just slightly weighted to 3 stars initially to promote interest. Write your trading partners and thank them.
Good advice.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
In simple terms the 2 star ratio indicates how much space you need to make it.

Just as an example: you can make 1 T1 in 1 square, you can make 1 T2 in 1.5 squares and you can make 1 T3 in 2.25 squares. So 1 T3 is worth 2.25 T1s in terms of production costs.
 

Killy-

Well-Known Member
In simple terms the 2 star ratio indicates how much space you need to make it.

Just as an example: you can make 1 T1 in 1 square, you can make 1 T2 in 1.5 squares and you can make 1 T3 in 2.25 squares. So 1 T3 is worth 2.25 T1s in terms of production costs.
Well usually that is not correct espacially for players with golden abyss etc.
 

DeletedUser30612

Guest
I would recommend figuring out how many factories of each tier you need to get you the necessary goods. Earlier chapter players are gonna have an abundance of t3 goods simply due to lack of demand. If that’s your case use a teleport spell and put the factory in your inventory, I would recommend leveling it fully first.

I have notice when looking at other players cities that a lot of times people don’t level their factories up to where they are in the game.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Well usually that is not correct espacially for players with golden abyss etc.
?
An MM spell on one type of manufactory would change the ratio as would uneven boost % but the golden abyss or the mountain hall have an equal impact every manufactory and wouldn't change the ratio.
 

Killy-

Well-Known Member
?
An MM spell on one type of manufactory would change the ratio as would uneven boost % but the golden abyss or the mountain hall have an equal impact every manufactory and wouldn't change the ratio.

You need population for the manufactory (and culture) so the "fair ratio" changes with lvl of abyss (and a lot of other stuff). I would only produce t3 and crosstrade down all day if I could get someone to trade. ;)
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
I need population for T1s, T2s and T3s. The ratio of 1:1.5:2.25 is established by how much space it takes to produce the good.
The effect of the GA is global so it has an identical impact on all my manufactories equally. The ratio does not change.

I would only produce t3 and crosstrade down all day if I could get someone to trade. ;)
Me too, because of the ease of rearranging I would rather arrange 10 t3s and work roads around them than arrange t3s, t2s and t1s. ...lol maybe in my Harander scroll boosted city I should just delete all my t1s and t3s and just make scrolls. There is no point in even pretending balance...that city already has 10 scroll manufactories.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
I would only produce t3 and crosstrade down all day if I could get someone to trade.
This approach usually only works in games where part of the cost-to-produce
is some of the lower tier goods.

In simple terms the 2 star ratio indicates how much space you need to make it.
1 : 1.5 : 2.25 .... is an arbitrary value, it has nothing to do with space.
Saying it does confuses many many players.......

I have notice when looking at other players cities that a lot of times people don’t level their factories up to where they are in the game.
This occurs because there are determinations made versus population/goods,
rather than say # of tiles/goods..... its more of a footprint, yet less pop/culture
in some respects to produce the same amt of goods per 3 hrs.
 

Killy-

Well-Known Member
I need population for T1s, T2s and T3s. The ratio of 1:1.5:2.25 is established by how much space it takes to produce the good.
The effect of the GA is global so it has an identical impact on all my manufactories equally. The ratio does not change.

What about the factories? They need space and they are more or less all the same size and the ratio isn't 1:1.5:2.25 but depends on wonders, chapter, pop buildings etc. etc., but for almost all players the mentioned ratio is bad for the lower tiers. On top the MM spells are better (more efficient) on the higher tiers and other effects like that.
 
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