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    Your Elvenar Team

Crowdsourcing changes to Enar's embassy?

Alram

Flippers just flip
Regardless of your approach to mana and enars something to consider is using those spells regularly (if your not already). They make a huge difference to your town, what it can do and/or what it needs

In terms of maze it is another huge wonder so it gets a lot of negativity. Again the huge mana demands in the later chapters do make it interesting.
I am looking at the Enars and the Maze. They are big but they are also mostly passive Mana mines.
I've never used a lot of spells. I haven't needed them so I saved them for "later". I might end up shifting to using them a lot. I agree that I will have to go with what my city needs as I progress. At this time, the DA doesn't seem to be the best fit for my city.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
I went with Maze and have enjoyed it, I sneak a couple mana buildings into the town so I am always collecting mana even without spells. I find they let me use my spells less, take up little space and in my case I get extra benefit from my LoGN which makes those mana buildings even better. Just wish I had more magical mana huts. The mana the maze gives is not very noticeable but it adds up and doesn't decay much so when the pressure on mana is less it keeps building up for when I need it.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Check the wiki requirements for Ch 18+ T1 factories. Level 32+ adds mana as a requirement.
Ah just a couple of factory upgrades? meh one and done. Dragon abbey plus all the Evos will likely cover that, doesn't seems worth the KP to upgrade an otherwise bad wonder. Certainly not for the 2+ years until you need it in chapter 20.
The simple trick of filling your guest race space with mana(or seed) buildings between chapters for a week does wonders (pun intended)
 

The Fairy

Scroll-Keeper, Buddy Fan Club Member
Well chapter 20 is quite the mana hog. 18 and 19 don't step up the mana reliance much though.
I don't remember chapter 18, but chapter 19 requires lots of mana to build the guest race settlement. I think it is around 36 million mana to build the buildings needed to fulfill the quests.
 

able99

Well-Known Member
Maybe a percentage reduction of all encounter costs that starts out small and increases with upgrades?
samidodamage,
For what it's worth, I think your suggestion for useful function for the Enar Embassy is brilliant.
Every new player decides to be either a trading or fighting city. With all the military AW's it's easier to grow as a military city so most change to fighting or quit the game.
If the Enar Embassy starts out by reducing carting/negotiating cost by1% or even .5% and grow with every level up, it gives it a reason to exist other than being a pretty building. It helps trading cities by leveling the overwhelming advantage military cities have.
I don't think the concern that larger cites will have an unfair advantage is real since they mostly fight except for a few difficult encounters. If they Carte/negotiate those encounters and costs are low because they build and levelled up the Enar Embassy, that sounds fair.
Even the AW name 'Embar Embassy' fits as it suggests trade relations and negotiations.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
samidodamage,
For what it's worth, I think your suggestion for useful function for the Enar Embassy is brilliant.
Every new player decides to be either a trading or fighting city. With all the military AW's it's easier to grow as a military city so most change to fighting or quit the game.
If the Enar Embassy starts out by reducing carting/negotiating cost by1% or even .5% and grow with every level up, it gives it a reason to exist other than being a pretty building. It helps trading cities by leveling the overwhelming advantage military cities have.
I don't think the concern that larger cites will have an unfair advantage is real since they mostly fight except for a few difficult encounters. If they Carte/negotiate those encounters and costs are low because they build and levelled up the Enar Embassy, that sounds fair.
Even the AW name 'Embar Embassy' fits as it suggests trade relations and negotiations.
Thing is, there is already a wonder for this. The Scout's Tavern, a chapter 20 wonder. At max level it reduces the scout time (which reduces the encounter difficulty and catering costs) by 65%. It is not likely that another wonder would be additive to the 65% reduction.
 
Can you cite the source for scout time directly impacting encounter difficulty and catering costs? Do you mean all encounters, including tourney, spire, and map? Where does scout time itself factor in?
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Can you cite the source for scout time directly impacting encounter difficulty and catering costs? Do you mean all encounters, including tourney, spire, and map? Where does scout time itself factor in?
Advanced scouts has reduced the world map difficulty. This is well known and easily tested. The scout's tavern is an additional multiplier.

Tourney and spire are not reduced by the scout's tavern.
 
Thanks, yes. I got excited at the prospect of scout time reduction making tourney easier, but sounds like that is not the case (which would have been news indeed)
 

able99

Well-Known Member
Pheryll,
In later chapters it takes days for a scout to finish once it is launched.
The Scout Tavern reduces the length of time it will take the scout to finish once it is launched. It may also reduce the cost of launching the scout which I really didn't notice.
The Scout Tavern does nothing to reduce the number of supplies and goods needed to negotiate/carte in any type of encounter.
As I understood Semidodamage's suggestion, a useful function for the Enar Embassy should be to apply a percentage reduction, depending on level, to your cost in the various supplies and goods charged for negotiating/carting any encounter, Spire, Tournament or Province.
The percentage may start at .5% or 1% at level 1 and grow to 15% or 30% at level 30. I leave it to others to figure out what the right percentages should be.
This helps in preserve supplies/goods in all non-fighting encounters and makes the Enar Embassy a useful AW.
Fighting is already addressed by other AWs.

As to the benefit for INNO, it will give non-military, players a reason to stay in the game and reduce dead cities with the potential to spend real money.
It gives all players a new strategic dimension on when to carte or fight. Carting can become attractive with a well advanced Enar Embassy, and some may spend money to level up their Enar Embassy.
 
Agree with all that.

I did just think of a problem with instance difficulty reduction....would be a massive PIA for advanced players. Instead of being competitive for top tourney spots (in H world) in the 45-60 province range, reducing tournament difficulty would mean that advanced players would need to go far deeper. So deep in fact that almost certainly the max number scouted / complete provinces would come into play. This would make Scout's Tav and the new Enar's absolutely mandatory for competitive cities, which would be exceedingly obnoxious - my opinion.

For the cities that want easier tournies so they can go deep to 25, or so their laid back FS can finally get 10 chests, I think they just need to try harder - as you can tell, this is also an opinion.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
I did just think of a problem with instance difficulty reduction
That's an issue I hadn't thought about. I was thinking along the lines of improving the ability to be competitive in tourneys for caterers. I'm primarily a fighter, so I don't have any personal experience with costs of catering. Everything I've seen indicates that players who are primarily caterers are hamstrung in this game if they want to compete with either fighters or fight/cater hybrid cities consistently in tourney scores. That's not the case for players who are primarily fighters. Basically, I was trying to think of a way to level the playing field a bit for caterers.
Maybe there's a different way to structure it that avoids the mandatory Scout's Tav/Enar's quandary? Maybe we could work on what we think that could look like.
I'm not even sure @Ashrem is still interested in trying to develop this idea, and ya can't blame him, lol! This is a tough crowd!
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
The Scout Tavern does nothing to reduce the number of supplies and goods needed to negotiate/carte in any type of encounter.

The unscouted world map provinces will require less troops and lesser catering amounts if the time is reduced (by advanced scout or scouting tavern) before they are scouted. Once a world map province is scouted, there is no way to reduce the enemies or the catering amounts.
 
I think it still works if CATERING costs ONLY are reduced. This enhances the possible variety of city types that could exist, and pulls back a bit from those few cities who have 10 Twilight Pheonixes. Could still make sense, but would have to be a medium benefit, not massive, even at L35, but big enough to overcome the impact of the AW levels on CAL. Good luck to someone making the formula!
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I was thinking along the lines of improving the ability to be competitive in tourneys for caterers. I'm primarily a fighter, so I don't have any personal experience with costs of catering. Everything I've seen indicates that players who are primarily caterers are hamstrung in this game if they want to compete with either fighters or fight/cater hybrid cities consistently in tourney scores.

The fight/cater hybrid may be as simple as one military wonder (either Dwarven Bulwark or Shrooms), but the pure cater route (including not upgrading the barracks) is something that Inno seems to be discouraging.
 
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