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    Your Elvenar Team

Crowdsourcing changes to Enar's embassy?

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
1. Has INNO ever adjusted the base type of a wonder before?
Not yet, but I don't see why that matters.
2. What would INNO gain by making a change like this?
All features that players use earn inno money. Features that players ignore gain nothing.


Reading the other comments I think maybe an Evo-like ability for the Enar's has potential.

Being able to switch from shard production to something else when you are not on rune stages has clear benefits.
enars.png
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Being able to switch from shard production to something else when you are not on rune stages has clear benefits.
View attachment 13855

Only problem I see with this is that we will need a second ability for the wonder, if mana and shards are switchable. This does solve the mana issue though as it can better scale with chapters if it is not attached to scouting.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
we will need a second ability for the wonder
I've thought about that and perhaps something thematic (it is an embassy) where either neighborly help gives more(in or out?), or better yet it could reduce the costs of negotiation/catering/convincing somehow. (produces a spectral stone every X hours?)

Even giving it culture (or pop?) based on how far you have scouted kinda makes sense.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I had this idea while replying to another thread, but since Inno is highly unlikely to change this to something that does not involved broken shards, how about instead of giving us shards, it increases our broken shard storage? Say at level 1 it is 3 extra storage and then at the usual levels for increase, that goes up by 1, so that at level 35 we can store an extra 10 broken shards? Or 1 extra at level one and 2 more per usual increases, for a total of 15 extra broken shards stored at level 35.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I had this idea while replying to another thread, but since Inno is highly unlikely to change this to something that does not involved broken shards, how about instead of giving us shards, it increases our broken shard storage? Say at level 1 it is 3 extra storage and then at the usual levels for increase, that goes up by 1, so that at level 35 we can store an extra 10 broken shards? Or 1 extra at level one and 2 more per usual increases, for a total of 15 extra broken shards stored at level 35.
Good idea. I was thinking along the same lines myself, but having both the shard generation and the extra shard storage. There are a few wonders that have three abilities (namely those that boost the enchantment spells), so having one that increases cap and gives generation is perfectly within bounds of what a wonder could have while still having another ability (something with mana).
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
it increases our broken shard storage?
Makes sense, but still leaves enar's at the bottom of the useful wonders list IMO unless another boost is added
The tournament and some sets just give so many shards that a cap of 20 instead of 10 would just mean the very rare gain of what is effectively 15 KP.
I just rushed a wonder from 0-30 and those 10 extra shards on rune phases would have been near meaningless, and that's best case scenario
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Yeah but, Timon promised us, that he would try to persuade the development team to increase the storage to 20, shortly after Enar's Embassy was released. I am thinking that was 2017 iirc, and here we are, still waiting. Apparently this is a tough sell! Or perhaps, the amount of broken rune shards needed to create a single placed rune, would need to be increased as well.
 

Lakarakka

New Member
Yeah but, Timon promised us, that he would try to persuade the development team to increase the storage to 20, shortly after Enar's Embassy was released. I am thinking that was 2017 iirc, and here we are, still waiting. Apparently this is a tough sell! Or perhaps, the amount of broken rune shards needed to create a single placed rune, would need to be increased as well.
The rune shard production is far too few. If you were to build Enar's you have likely built all of the other AWs to this point, and could use a few extra shards. one per week is ridiculous given the large 28 squares of space needed to erect this AW.
if the mana production was based on clockwork rather than per scout, similar to Prosperity Towers it would make it considerably more desirable. I have every AW so far but i really do not know about this one. the only reason i might build it is for ranking points and just to add it to my collection. it appears to be wasted space. Tome of Secrets is ahead of Enar. It is smaller, and although its main value seems to be in the early chapters it is also easily updated as newer fellowship members will have lots of help to give for it. it's a neat looking little AW too although it could be 3x3 or 3x4 would be better, but i digress.. So i like the idea of Enar's (mana and shards) i just disagree with the amount and the method of production. the poor return in combination with huge size make it hard to justify building
 
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Alram

Flippers just flip
I am curious about the individual poster's reasoning to build every single available wonder  except Enar's. :)
Culture for people who do not use culture buildings and have tons of AW levels. Plus, ranking point lovers build it.
 
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Alram

Flippers just flip
You asked how to justify Thrones and I answered that.
Thank you for telling me how some people justify thrones. I'm curious about how the player who is building all wonders except this one justifies thrones. It's big and it's entirely possible this poster doesn't need it for the culture and isn't interested much in ranking points.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
So many ideas here that won't even get the time of day with the devs. The suggestion is a long shot at best, even if we find an amazing option. A couple things to consider:
  • Devs are not going to change mana per scout. They have ToS with a similar effect so I can't see them changing this, they don't see/care about our issues with scout times. Even though dev views on scout times have changed since enars was built (used to be 24hr scout at high end as reasonable) I still don't see them caring about it.
  • Wonder is built end of chapter 9, so any request to benefit future chapters just is not going to work
  • Balance with any suggestion will be massive
  • I think we can kiss the increase in shard limit goodbye, has been years and isn't even mentioned now. Regardless would it honestly make a difference if it was 20, people would just be capped there and a ferris wheel is still superior to a level 30 enars in terms of broken shards
Honestly I think the best suggestion so far is not change enars at all, and allow the conversion of 10 broken shards into a rune regardless of the rune wheel. Not an easy change and therefore unlikely to ever happen but it solves the issue of "useless broken shards" from this wonder, benefits tournament round 6 players by also making that reward relevant again and has the least balancing issues to consider.
I'm curious about how the player who is building all wonders except this one justifies thrones.
I know a person doing this and one who built them all and laments enars. Both have the same motivation, ranking points, not to mention the benefits the other wonders provide. In terms of thrones this plus 2 other wonders can cover your entire culture needs in the game with no need to build other buildings, of course a person strategy to culture will then determine what they do from there.

For those comparing ferris wheel to enars, another benefit to ferris wheel is it can be time boosted. So no need to build too many if you have some boosters, just speed up the production.
 

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Thanks @Mykan , I didn't even realize you could use time instants on a Ferris Wheel (I had to go check one in my city!). I don't think it would be worth spending 24/48 hours worth of time instants for anything it produces, but it is nice to know that I could. lol
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
Has anyone actually done the mana math on this wonder? I understand that scouting time increases but completed provinces also increase. The mana production seems solid.
 
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samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Has anyone actually done the mana math on this wonder?
No, but its lack of usefulness for my playstyle was apparent to me without doing math. The AW is acquired at the end of Ch9. By that time, I already knew the Tome of Secrets (similar mechanics for rewarding supplies instead of mana based on scouting provinces) didn't work for me. I have always been ultra conservative on scouting; that's just my personal preference. I couldn't see that changing (and I was right; the game slowed down and I got even slower, lol!). Yes, I could have invested a boatload of kp into either or both, raising the amount of mana per scout. But, since I'd already developed a method of scouting/completing provinces during events, I'd be mostly getting large amounts of mana (or supplies re: ToS) at a time when I needed it the least. I've been pausing my guest race progress, cranking out sequential event quests, and then returning to regular gameplay for many chapters now; definitely pre-Ch8. The reward mechanic works better for folks who scout much more aggressively than I do. Still, progression increases scout times; I just view them as diminishing returns. Since we get ToS so early, I think many players can benefit from it due to the lower scout times/more frequent scouting early in the game. I question its usefulness long-term. I waited for Prosperity Towers after the (2nd or 3rd?) time I tried to make ToS work; I never built Enars; waited for Dragon Abbey at the end of Ch10 for mana on demand via spells instead.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
I'm trying to figure out why anyone thinks Enars needs to be changed. I'm in ch11 and at Level3 it outproduces everything I've got except the mana hut.
I am running a catering build. I always need mana. I'm not overscouted. I need 280 provinces to get into the next chapter. Im scouting 275 and completed 271.
 
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