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    Your Elvenar Team

Crowdsourcing changes to Enar's embassy?

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Ugh, really? It's a giant boat anchor, is why this Wonder tops the list as my least favorite, followed closely by Thrones and Maze. Craft some Festival Merchants, you can maybe fit three into the EE2's space.

So far as culture goes re Thrones - we can't polish it so how useful is it?
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
Ugh, really? It's a giant boat anchor, is why this Wonder tops the list as my least favorite, followed closely by Thrones and Maze. Craft some Festival Merchants, you can maybe fit three into the EE2's space.
My festival merchants give seeds in ch11. It is a big wonder.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Has anyone actually done the mana math on this wonder? I understand that scouting time increases but completed provinces also increase. The mana production seems solid.
I'll take a shot:
At level 3 you're getting 80x provinces completed
In chapter 11 you must have cleared 250, and need at least 280 by the end of the chapter.

So, your Enar's is going to give you about 22K mana per scout

vs

You could very reasonably collect and place 5 frozen fountains from this event in basically the same space.
These (with zero link bonuses) would produce 23,500 every day.

So, if you scout once per day, then enar's is pretty close to mana buildings, but has cost you hundreds of KP already, and also raises the cost of the tournament and spire encounters (as all AW levels do)
I'm trying to figure out why anyone thinks Enars needs to be changed.
The real problem comes in later chapters. For example, if I had an Enar's at level 3 like you, even with my 500 cleared provinces, it would only give me 40k mana every 80 hours.
vs
Frozen fountains would give me 221,000 mana in the same time.

40k mana from Enar's vs 221K mana from other mana buildings in the same space.
Even at level 35 Enar's wouldn't equal 5 fountains because of the negative impact on the spire and tournament costs.
Also, there are better ways to spend 40,000 KP than upgrading Enar's.

That's why everyone thinks Enar's needs changing. It WAS actually decent for a few months before event buildings gave mana, now it's just a waste of space and KP.

Edit: Yikes. I just checked and for chapter 20 the Frozen fountains would give over 400,000 and Enar's at level 35 would be under 50K
 
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Alram

Flippers just flip
That's why everyone thinks Enar's needs changing. It WAS actually decent for a few months before event buildings gave mana, now it's just a waste of space and KP.
So Enar's is a good building for people who don't play events? :cool:



*it is pretty and I am having it and I will not allow a 28 square wonder in my city to stay at level one.
**it is currently at L3 and outproducing most of my other mana buildings.
***I am playing in ch11. I'm not really concerned about any ch20 goings on. Ch20 goings on are important but not my game problem today.
****I'm okay with letting the game keep its event buildings and royal restorations.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
So Enar's is a good building for people who don't play events? :cool:
Sure. All buildings are judged by being compared to other options. If you don't play in events that easily give much better mana producers then your comparisons will be different.

I wasn't trying to convince you to replace yours, just answering your question as to why everyone thinks Enar's needs tweaking.
Any wonder that is only useful for a tiny subset of players (those in Chapters 10-12 who don't play events for example) needs tweaking.

That being said, in your position, I would consider just how many KP I'd be willing to add to a depreciating asset.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
I think most players putter about during events. I also think a lot of players have written this one off because it's not a troop booster. I think it's useful for more than 2 chapters but I'm shooting from the hip here. I have not crunched the numbers by chapter. Has anyone?
 

MaidenFair

Chef - Head Philologist
I think most players putter about during events. I also think a lot of players have written this one off because it's not a troop booster. I think it's useful for more than 2 chapters but I'm shooting from the hip here. I have not crunched the numbers by chapter. Has anyone?
I did but it was fuzzy napkin math for my own use, which I didn't write down anywhere. I'm busy this afternoon, but I'll try to do some more thorough math in the next few days and let you know. This has been bugging me too. ;)
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I think most players putter about during events.
Interesting, I've found most players go all out for events. Regardless, getting enough FF to replace enar's would require less than half of the currency awarded in this event, so even putterers could get it, and in this event format prizes are guaranteed.

Edit: after crunching the numbers below I remembered that mana sawmills exist: using 3.5 of those gives similar results, so events aren't even needed to make Enar's obsolete rather quickly.
I also think a lot of players have written [Enar's] off because it's not a troop booster.
I think it's purely by numbers. The prosperity towers, GA, and BTG are also non-military wonders and yet staples in almost every advanced city.
Although I will admit that fighters having a Dragon Abbey that is better in every possible way does put yet another nail in Enar's coffin.
I think it's useful for more than 2 chapters...I have not crunched the numbers by chapter. Has anyone?
Well, it's about tied with Frozen fountains for you now in chapter 11, BUT you've already spent hundreds of KP on it.

For chapter 12 the frozen fountains get a 32% increase in production, so to keep Enar's relevant you'd need to sink another 800 KP into it.
For chapter 13 the frozen fountains get a 34% increase in production, so another 1400 KP into it on top of the 800
For chapter 14 the frozen fountains get a 31% increase in production, for over 4,000 KP total investment.

****The assumption for the above is maintaining 1 scout per day, every day, which of course becomes impossible later.****

Also, we can't forget that every AW level has a negative impact on your tournament and spire costs for every single resource used, not just mana, so once you max out Enar's at level 30 or 35 your mana, seeds, coin, supply, and all other goods costs increases by about 5%, which is a pretty huge impact.
 
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Alram

Flippers just flip
@SoggyShorts
Taking 5 frozen fountains from ch11 to ch14 would be 90 royal restorations right? That's 9 blueprints to craft or 2700 diamonds?
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
Inno nerfs but they rarely add an effect that will significantly benefit the game. Personally I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Enar produce PET FOOD. Then I would build it because then I could feed more of my hungry little pets.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
@Alram I used to have Enar in my Khel City. It's a beautiful build, BUT it takes up too much space for what it eventually produces. I don't need rune shards because I can't use them before my storage is full. Yes Timon did say they were going to increase the storage when they changed things but that never happened. I think he said it to shut some of us up. They nerfed my beloved Crystal Lighthouse, making it far less effective, but I can't bring myself to unbuild it. It was hard for me to unbuild and not build Enar because I love the way it looks, but the benefits do not outweigh the costs for my play style.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Inno nerfs but they rarely add an effect that will significantly benefit the game. Personally I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Enar produce PET FOOD. Then I would build it because then I could feed more of my hungry little pets.
Yeah, but seven pet food a week seems a bit tall of a request, unless they trim it down to only 4 by following a progression similar to the scout's tavern (1 extra chest every ten levels after the first). But this would likely replace the shard's generation, and leave the mana as it is.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
@SoulsSilhouette
It really does all come down to play style. If players don't like a particular wonder, why not just ignore it and build something they do like?
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
@Pheryll I wasn't suggesting 7 pet foods a week, although I would love it ... I have all the Pheonix, the bears, etc. Thats a lot of pet food ...lol However, I would be happy with the number was increased with the levels... It would make those builds more relevant and more attractive to new players as well. I don't get the option to craft in my MA all the time but I can only be on a limited amount of time. Unfortunately I have work so I can't spend my day just elvenaring... someday maybe but not right now.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
So, something like this? I have struck the broken rune shard production and added in rune shard maximum changes and pet food production. The chart does not show the intermediary levels where only the mana per scout changes.

Enar's Embassy's LevelMana per scoutBroken rune shard maximumPet food collection (per 7 days)
160x completed provinces121
6120x completed provinces141
11180x completed provinces 162
16240x completed provinces182
21300x completed provinces203
26360x completed provinces223
31420x completed provinces244
 

Rythel

Active Member
An embassy is a focal point for diplomatic relations
This is what I think Enar's should focus on. The spire's negotation is called Diplomacy and therefore I feel like it should focus on making Spire Diplomacy easier. We have plenty of wonders that make combat easier either via stronger troops or higher HP but we do not have any wonders that make catering easier. I would really like to see some early wonders that help support the catering gameplay.

In my complete fantasy world, I would propose that Enar's Embassy do the following:

Reduce diplomacy costs in the spire by a very small amount. Maybe totaling 7.5% at level 35
Reward Spectral Stones per week. Total of 2 at max level.

With the restrictions on spectral stones, I don't feel the two stones a week would be too strong a reward.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
@Pheryll Sadly I doubt they will change the max broken shards. I figure they would have done it already if they wanted to or were able to, vaguely recall them mentioning this was more complex than they first thought. If they could change the max capacity have it as a dual effect with the free broken shards would actually be interesting. Maybe not enough for me personally but does make it more appealing to a wider group of players. The smaller the tweak requested the better the chance of success.

but we do not have any wonders that make catering easier.
I suspect that is by design, catering is generally a 100% guarantee with the exceptions of the spire. Again they designed it that way from the start. In terms of wonders just because you discount the economy wonders as not helping with catering I am not sure the devs would. There is a lot of wonders that make it easier to have the goods required to cater. Current version of enars is part of that group, so a tough ask for it to do even more on the basis of making catering easier.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
well, I just really really hope that they make enar more relevant for me. I would rather pet food than rune shards in all my worlds. But I'm probably alone in that. I don't mind the catering costs, it is what it is and I've dealt with that from the beginning so I don't really notice it all that much except in my baby worlds.
 

Katwick

Cartographer
If they could change the max capacity have it as a dual effect with the free broken shards would actually be interesting. Maybe not enough for me personally but does make it more appealing to a wider group of players. The smaller the tweak requested the better the chance of success.
What if we had a "Miniature Rune Wheel" icon on each AW screen, that the Enar AW activated, or added?

Enar Level = Create up to Level # of desired Rune Tokens per week, by converting 10 Broken Shards, or Rune Tokens from other AWs

Using Trash AWs to generate 10 Broken Shards, at will, is a pretty rinky dink solution to the same issue. Likewise with unswapable Runes. A less cumbersome approach would be quicker and a bit more efficient, but it shouldn't effect the game balance in any unforseen way.

And yeah, a Rune Token that was created from Broken Shards might well break again when you tried to actually use it in a Rune Wheel, so there could be some shrinkage, but that's still cleaner than using a Trash AW Rune Wheel to generate Broken Shards at will.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@SoggyShorts
Taking 5 frozen fountains from ch11 to ch14 would be 90 royal restorations right? That's 9 blueprints to craft or 2700 diamonds?
Yeah, It'd be much cheaper to just pick a mana producer from the event immediately after you change chapters
@SoulsSilhouette
It really does all come down to play style. If players don't like a particular wonder, why not just ignore it and build something they do like?
I think it's the niche nature of it. We only get access to so many wonders, and having one be completely useless for most players takes away the opportunity for something they could use. Rather than only players who ignore events and are in 4 of 20 chapters.

It's also available reasonably early in the tech tree and represents a unique opportunity to "fix" an unrelated issue (or two!) in the game and really almost nothing would be lost by doing so (because the buildings is so unpopular and easily replaced)
 
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