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    Your Elvenar Team

Crystal shortage

Pyrgo

New Member
These are good suggestions for us
Yes! Traveling merchants. How did I forget? Until very recently, I have recrafted one of each tier each new chapter (two of T1 for a while there). They don't solve the problem you're having, per se, but can likely help a bit. Those served me well and I don't regret using them for so long. One of the things I liked was that it helped me not rely on my trader 100% (without the expense of factory, which I did consider at times). I have a good fellowship, and several helpful traders in my neighborhood, but sometimes it comes down to timing of people being around to take/give the trades when you need it. It doesn't cost anything to run and has a small footprint (it doesn't make a lot but it is still helpful). Facepalm for forgetting, haha. They're not very expensive and frequency will vary, but watch for them in your MA.
These are good suggestions for us (FD) and I plan to start one or two more boosted T1s tonight. I will have to miss at least two tournament entries in today's round because of a chronic shortage of crystals. I like the lateral thinking of this solution.
 

Bethanne Rainbow

Active Member
Some possible "solutions" (or at least helps).

1) Sell scrolls for a lot less than the "official" value. When I sell them, I sell them for 20% discount. Or did when, as a scrolls boosted player I sold them. I generally don't sell them now because I've adjusted my output so the place where the amounts I have are stable. But selling at a discount will work. You may have to go 25% but if you think about it, there are silk and crystal boosted players and they do need scrolls so they buy scrolls.

2) If you do have any scrolls boosted players have them put their scrolls in storage and use the space more T3 or T1 production. Then cross tier trade with them for the scrolls they need. The point is, it may be cheaper for them to buy scrolls than produce them and the space can help in other areas. I have 9 steel plants and no scrolls because I can trade my surplus of steel for silk and crystal. The idea is to use your space to produce that which has enough value to get you crystal.

3) Find a fs with a suplus of crystal. We did when we needed silk. If they have a shortage of something you produce in abundance, arrange a scheduled trade with them. Then we arranged bi-weekly large trades of 500,000 silk for what we had at the time in surplus -- scrolls, I believe. Now we don't need silk because we've adjusted our methods pretty much balance it. Then we would "send" a member there after tournament, they would pick up the silk and drop off the scrolls. They they'd come back. This was before the Spire so there was time. Not sure how it would work with the Spire unless they start the Spire a bit late.

4) Keep regularly posted something for crystal trades up. We used to put 109,000 ("9" being our note for "foreign" trades to be left for our neighbors). By keeping them up all the time and adjusting the price to make them attractive you will find you get your crystal. When we found we needed crystal (it was crystal at the time) it took a few days before our trades started moving and we built a surplus.

5) Have a surplus. Sounds a bit counter-intuitive but by having a surplus the "hurt" of being short doesn't happen as much. Combined with #4 it works. I keep a surplus of 2 million crystal and silk on hand and seldom does anybody in my fs have a problem with not being able to get those goods. I do this for all the goods and this minimizes the impact of short term shortages. You still have to address the underlying low production problem, but it definitely makes things easier.

Those are my suggestions, some of which others have made, above, of course.

AJ
Lots of help! Many thanks!
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
These are good suggestions for us (FD) and I plan to start one or two more boosted T1s tonight. I will have to miss at least two tournament entries in today's round because of a chronic shortage of crystals. I like the lateral thinking of this solution.
Yeah... that darn crystal! Getting crystal has been the most difficult, seconded by my offers for steel sitting for longer than I like. The FS trades well overall, and a very decent percentage of my trader activity is with my neighborhood, but the crystal still falls short. Maybe I should recraft a T2 TM also... ha! See ya, Pyrgo!
 
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The Fairy

Scroll-Keeper, Buddy Fan Club Member
1) Sell scrolls for a lot less than the "official" value. When I sell them, I sell them for 20% discount. Or did when, as a scrolls boosted player I sold them. I generally don't sell them now because I've adjusted my output so the place where the amounts I have are stable. But selling at a discount will work. You may have to go 25% but if you think about it, there are silk and crystal boosted players and they do need scrolls so they buy scrolls.

This may seem tempting, but long term it only makes it worse!!! When silk and crystal boosted players can buy scrolls on discount then they need to produce less silk/crystal which makes the shortage of silk and crystal even worse:(

Please go with some of the other suggestions!
 

Crow Last Elf

Well-Known Member
If you don't do all of your neighbourly help because your MH is full, then have a routine of doing as much neighbourly help as you can stand and visit the wholesaler once or twice a day. If all non-crystal producers did that, it would make a difference. It is not a significant amount for a player that mostly caters, but it is significant for a player that mostly fights.
 

ElfGunn

Well-Known Member
If you don't do all of your neighbourly help because your MH is full, then have a routine of doing as much neighbourly help as you can stand and visit the wholesaler once or twice a day. If all non-crystal producers did that, it would make a difference. It is not a significant amount for a player that mostly caters, but it is significant for a player that mostly fights.

Or buy KP.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
This may seem tempting, but long term it only makes it worse!!! When silk and crystal boosted players can buy scrolls on discount then they need to produce less silk/crystal which makes the shortage of silk and crystal even worse:(

Please go with some of the other suggestions!

This might be true, but only if all they need is crystal and/or silk and they cannot use scrolls to buy anything else. Once you open the trading routes so that you can trade a wider variety of goods for a wider variety of other goods, you end up finding the value of the original good rises exactly because you've added more places it can be used -- more demand. This spreads out the surplus across a wider range of markets and minimizes the problem of the surplus and thus, the temptation to produce less of the other two. I trade across tiers all the time and usually it works pretty well. I do put at least a 10% "bonus" to the trade for the buyer, but that's because one of my "intangibles" is that I like to move quickly.

There are ways the players can approach trading in this, and pretty much every game market. First, they can try to anticipate what the market will do when there is a shortage and set themselves up to take advantage of that; or second, they can try to control the markets with more rules about what this or that is worth. The first takes a bit of knowledge about how people in markets act, the second takes a lot of real control of people's behaviors and some kind of "authorities" who decide what is worth what. Neither method works well for all, and both have flaws. In general, I prefer the former rather than the latter.

The problems with the first method are that people aren't always smart about their choices. The game attempts to enlighten them with the star system, but that's not always the right measure and difficult to enforce anyway. Thus, the first, leaving people on their own, may have a steep learning curve and lead to some players "taking advantage of" other players. Not fun. The problems with the second method though, I think are worse.

The problems with the second method are several: First, there is no real and effective method of controlling those who wish to break the social norms you try to put in place. They are "norms" rather than "rules" exactly because the level of punishment you can lay upon a person for not doing what they are told, is minimal. The game allows a range of trades and trying, as players to restrict that range, is probably "undoable". Thus those you might think of as nefarious, can still be nefarious and take advantage of others. In other words, without good enforcement the players really don't change a thing.

Second, there is no real authority in the game itself to do the type of controls that protect players from nefarious players. Since it allows a wide range of choice even as it tells others what is "fair" and what is not, but still allows what it labels as "unfair" trades, even it's star system is designed to present a "norm" more than a rule. Any rule without enforcement might as well not be a rule.

Third, the adjustment to what is "fair" and not, is too slow to respond to market changes. Markets are dynamic and any static "rules" are usually out of sink the longer they are in place. They may be used to set a range of values, but even that, in the long run, sometimes causes more problems.

And finally, the method gives new players a false sense of the actual value of things, probably to their detriment. While this is mitigated to a large degree by the generosity of almost all large players who both allow and encourage smaller players to make "unfair" trades, it treats those players as in a special category and then, when they leave that category, they think they have to now stick to whatever the system says are "fair" trades. In the long run training people to do what might not be in their best interest is probably not an ethically sound thing.

How does KP acquire crystal?

You can buy crystal with KP in the wholesaler if your boosted tier 2 is not Crystal. If it's crystal you can only buy silk or scrolls.

AJ
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
You can buy crystal with KP in the wholesaler if your boosted tier 2 is not Crystal. If it's crystal you can only buy silk or scrolls.
In my wholesaler, you can purchase unboosted goods for either coins, supplies, or boosted good of same tier. Does KP become a currency option at higher chapters because I'm not seeing it?
 

Aritra

Well-Known Member
@Aritra
No you can not buy anything in the wholesaler with KP. It's not an option. At least as far as chapt 15.
Maybe in later chapters but I doubt it.
I believe Elfgunn was referring to spending excess gold.
That's what I thought. I also expected that @ElfGunn was providing a solution for spending excess gold, when the topic was how to get extra crystal (and it had been suggested to use that excess gold to purchase crystal), so I posed the question expecting a verification/clarification.
But @ajqtrz said it was specifically possible....?
 

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
It is possible to purchase KP with your boosted goods, but not with non-boosted goods that could be obtained through the wholesaler. And in any case, that would result in more KP, not more goods.

I suppose you could put KP into a Mountain Halls AW, but that still only helps boosted goods, in this case not crystal. There is another AW that makes wholesaler trades cheaper. Blooming Trader maybe?
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@Gladiola
The Blooming Trader is the wonder that increases the amount of goods offered by the Wholesaler. I have that particular wonder in both my scroll boosted cities, hopefully it will help once I get the silly things decently upgraded. If not....I will abandon them both.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
@Gladiola
The Blooming Trader is the wonder that increases the amount of goods offered by the Wholesaler. I have that particular wonder in both my scroll boosted cities, hopefully it will help once I get the silly things decently upgraded. If not....I will abandon them both.

Don't abandon them. The boost it gives to your guest race portal goods and guest race production is worth it too, especially in the later, harder chapters. I will never understand the people who have said the BTG is not worth building.
 

ElfGunn

Well-Known Member
That's what I thought. I also expected that @ElfGunn was providing a solution for spending excess gold, when the topic was how to get extra crystal (and it had been suggested to use that excess gold to purchase crystal), so I posed the question expecting a verification/clarification.
But @ajqtrz said it was specifically possible....?

My bad...in my Wholesaler, I can buy crystal and silk for gold, supplies or scrolls, as I am boosted in scrolls. I should have noted that buying crystal with gold would only apply for persons boosted in scrolls or, I assume, silk.
 

juniperknome

Well-Known Member
this is where the blooming trader really shines i can buy 60k each silk and crystal daily. next best is traveling merchants.at my level they out produce the boosted manufactories anyway
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
My bad...in my Wholesaler, I can buy crystal and silk for gold, supplies or scrolls, as I am boosted in scrolls. I should have noted that buying crystal with gold would only apply for persons boosted in scrolls or, I assume, silk.

I was wrong. You can't use KP to purchase goods in the wholesaler. I was thinking KP, but it is coins I use all the time as that's the only way to consistently dump excess coins without driving the cost of KP up permanently. I only purchase KP with coins or boosted goods when I'm required to for a quest.

Sorry for my confusion and worse, my putting my confusion out there as fact. Sigh.

AJ
 
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