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    Your Elvenar Team

Crystal Tournament

qaccy

Well-Known Member
@Varzaak To be fair, I don't think you'd be 'screwing someone's head off' in real life either...unless you're saying the military regularly attacks its own members despite the outward appearance of integrity and comaraderie? Of course I realize you're probably just using an expression but I wanted to point out that it doesn't send a good message to say you're more than willing to physically attack people in real life.

Anyway, why is this tournament in particular an issue for you? Fundamentally speaking it's no different from the others. 4 different enemy units, with 3 being weak to one unit type and 1 being a 'counter' that's strong against the unit the other 3 are weak to. Every tournament follows this same formula, and as far as number of units goes they're all the same as well. There was definitely a notable increase in the cost/difficulty of fighting in crystal with the addition of Frog Princes, but I wonder: Would you be here commenting on it if they'd always been a part of the tournament instead of being a new addition?
 

DeletedUser20414

Guest
@Varzaak To be fair, I don't think you'd be 'screwing someone's head off' in real life either...unless you're saying the military regularly attacks its own members despite the outward appearance of integrity and comaraderie? Of course I realize you're probably just using an expression but I wanted to point out that it doesn't send a good message to say you're more than willing to physically attack people in real life.

Anyway, why is this tournament in particular an issue for you? Fundamentally speaking it's no different from the others. 4 different enemy units, with 3 being weak to one unit type and 1 being a 'counter' that's strong against the unit the other 3 are weak to. Every tournament follows this same formula, and as far as number of units goes they're all the same as well. There was definitely a notable increase in the cost/difficulty of fighting in crystal with the addition of Frog Princes, but I wonder: Would you be here commenting on it if they'd always been a part of the tournament instead of being a new addition?

Oh there are unreported fights amongst ourselves all the time. If you have never served ask. But don't sit here and paint your speculation as reality. I wasn't really using it as an expression. I was telling him reality. I have friends who have gotten out that have become cops. Why that profession. It has to do with the mindset. If you haven't been in an all alpha male environment like sports, military, police, etc then I don't expect you to understand. And that's cool.

Why is the tournament an issue for me? Because I have people thinking of quitting over it. They don't like what they are doing with the game. Over 200+ provinces I got only half dozen people who play. Is that normal to you? This game is what. 3 years old? It shouldn't have this many dead accounts on it? Think about it this way. You know people in your FS that you played at least 18 months with. How would you feel if people kept talking about quitting and nothing you can do can fix that, because the issue isn't with you. Its with the game. Did you not read in this very thread where people talked about quitting? What did the other poster say? 1% is in the forum. So multiply that number by 7. Studies have shown only about 15% of all customers complain. Then take that number and multiply that by 100 because of the 1%.

I lost a mage that has been with me since we started about 2 weeks ago. Maybe losing another. I have got 5 that were dailies that have quit in the last 2 months that Im only carrying for smaller peeps to visit. When you are in a mature FS that gets its chests... say you are top 20. You don't see what we see because remaining people go up not down when going to Fss.. You will get people who were former members in our FSs. Your ranks will always be full. Ours won't. When I see things like this and my people lose chests. Which we just did btw. It makes it harder to keep people interested. People play to have fun. They don't play to get irritated by a game because playing is a way to blow off steam. What happens when that game no longer serves that purpose? People quit. We are not replacing lost members like before. Fewer people are coming into the game. Its basically a mathematical equation. I told all my members about this thread. Told them to read it. They weren't as mad as I was at some of these responses. Not the personal ones like Mr Yuk Yuk just did. But the others. They felt like none of you guys cared and since that you didn't care then maybe that is the attitude of the game developers. These are the conversations we are having now. Before it was the event quests couldn't be planned. There is a perception that a pattern of unfairness is emerging. One of the people in my FS who is most upset is the one who usually spends money in the game. She feels she is now being cheated. Now we are going from upset players to possible lost revenue when people like her quit. That's the reason for this thread.
 

kctanzen

Well-Known Member
Quaccy pointed out the great discrepancy between cannoneers and even frog 2 units vs. the frog prince in an earlier post in this thread.
Since Frog Princes are part of chapter 15, the enemy units have the advantage of immediately unlocking any upgraded units.
Even with our advantages (if we use them) of wonder support and other battles buildings, it is a seismic shift in strategy and tactics to adjust for a unit what is basically a full extra stack of troops, hits 40% harder, and has an attack debuff against us -- not to mention rarely, if ever, has to move to hit our troops on the battle map. The point was also made about the great advantages ranged units have over pretty much any melee types (possible exception of dogs because of their movement capability) -- it might take 5 or 6 turns to move units close enough to attack -- more if there are terrain bottlenecks which also funnel us into one or two possible approach routes.

All this happens while our 'best' units (upgraded banshees) against them are getting chewed to bits by the support dogs.

It will be manageable, just not the nearly as easy as steel anymore.
Coming during the event (with the relics / encounter tasks) may have made them more noticeable as well, since folks may have been stretching farther to get those event tasks completed and ran into more stacks of them sooner than they might otherwise have in a typical week.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
We get it. These are the intended units. Understood. You really don't need to keep repeating that these are the intended units.

Maybe a cooking analogy will do the trick. Just because I finally got a metric measuring set and am now able to use a 15ml measuring spoon instead of a tablespoon does not mean that my recipes suddenly ought to have more baking powder in them.

Changing to the "correct" opposition units does not perforce mean that the province was intended to, or should be, harder than it was the day before.


While there have been lots of iterations in this conversation of what the enemy should or shouldn't be, my complaint is the degree to which the terrain favours the enemy units. Maybe I just didn't do sufficient manual fighting in the past to see it, and the crystal provinces have always been laid out this way. but I am finding a high percentage of layouts where some of the heavy units can't have any effect on the combat for the first 4+ rounds, while taking hits throughout.

I'm just piping in here because I agree with Ashrem on this point... It's a lot harder, I've been manually fighting in this game from day one with autofighting when I don't have the time. I know how this works and I see a huge shift in my causality rates that can't be simply explained away as I'm lacking experience. The terrain sucks... it stink on ice in MANY more of the fights. The Frog is seriously more effective now.

The harder terrains have always been there. Their frequency; I do not know. Changes like these can be made without any patch notes.

My losses are a measuring stick and from what I've seen in this one tourney, compared to all the previous crystal tourneys, is caused me to look closer. It's harder and unreasonably so.
I just catered almost my entire 5th star round to eleven because I lost several fights I wouldn't have in previous crystal tourneys. I'm disgusted.

If INNO wants to adjust things, and I'm okay with development, then why the hell does almost everything they change have to be so heavy handed? Are they trying to fill the forum with posts?
Couldn't they GRADUALLY work their way up to busting our proverbially balls?

One of the few things I really enjoyed about this game, just had the bottom dropped out of it.
No need to comment on this, I'm just posting my experience(s) here as it applies to me. Your mileage may vary.

I hope everyone has a good day.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
Do I need a bottle? I wasn't talking to you jerk. Don't come on here raising the temperature by butting in something and making remarks like that. You saying that makes you no better that what you supposedly have a disdain for. So go waddle back to your couch with your bag of potato chips. If you were in my unit and you said that to me or any of the other guys you would have got your head knocked off. .

:D:D:D:rolleyes:

"you would have got your head knocked off."
"Thank God for the internet huh. Where you can be brave and say things to people on it that you know you couldn't get away with in public"

oh the delicious irony

ps

dang i wish i had some potato chips now
all i have is crackers but no cheese
i'd go to the store but that would require going outside
and interacting with live people

fml
 

DeletedUser20414

Guest
:D:D:D:rolleyes:

"you would have got your head knocked off."
"Thank God for the internet huh. Where you can be brave and say things to people on it that you know you couldn't get away with in public"

oh the delicious irony

ps

dang i wish i had some potato chips now
all i have is crackers but no cheese
i'd go to the store but that would require going outside
and interacting with live people

fml

There is no irony. I deal in reality everyday and its certainly not in this game or with sorry people like you.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
There is no irony.
While Muckster is frequently more abrasive than is strictly necessary, some of your forum statements, combined with the dig about saying things on forums that one wouldn't say in public is, in fact, about as close to irony as most things people call irony. Unless, of course, you think that asking if one needs a bottle is somehow less appropriate to say to someone in public than "waddle back to your couch with your bag of potato chips." in which case, have at it.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
While Muckster is frequently more abrasive than is strictly necessary, some of your forum statements, combined with the dig about saying things on forums that one wouldn't say in public is, in fact, about as close to irony as most things people call irony. Unless, of course, you think that asking if one needs a bottle is somehow less appropriate to say to someone in public than "waddle back to your couch with your bag of potato chips." in which case, have at it.

I was more amused that he threatened physical violence while calling me an internet tough guy. :D
But your point is also valid.

Oh well. Poor boy's FS is falling apart and he needs to find blame outside of himself. It has to be Inno's fault, or Mykan's, or it's all of our faults because he told his people to come here and see what big meanies we are.
btw
I'm taking bets that he's a Marine. No other service man can match that sense of entitled obnoxiousness.
And I'm doubling down that he's never seen combat. Talks too tough.
We're also accepting bets at 3:1 that the only uniform he's every actually worn was as a Brownie Scout.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
But when multiple people complain and you do this same ole same ole routine its a turn off. Its the changes coupled with attitudes such as yours is why people quit.

While the number of people quitting won't have much to do with the forums (due to volume of visitors), I will agree that the forum attitude does affect those who do come here. But we disagree on who the "you" refers to. I feel it has more to do with endless complaints and personal attacks, two things I try to avoid. I started the game on another server and this forum is downright tame compared to that one, I left it because of the forum attitudes.

And what chapter are you in? What ranking are your AWs? Its says that you have been playing at least 2 years more than me. I lost entire bttles on 3 star provinces. That hasn't happened in a year for me. You aren't going to see the losses I am because of your health. You guys that are in the top 200 are not in the same boat as the rest of us. So it would be appreciated if you showed empathy instead of indirectly bragging about your situation. I know what you are going to say is that it wasn't your intent to do so.

I never mentioned any of those things because they were irrelevant to the post I quoted and the comments I made. The post was concerned about the difficulty of later rounds compared to the early rounds, because I have a decent leveled time warp I had already done those later rounds and gave a personal feedback in relation to that situation for a person who had not yet got there. I also kept the information comparative so it had some relevance rather then specific to what losses I incurred because specifics would be irrelevant unless someone was in the exact same situation as me.

You had best prepare yourself for next week, I suspect you are going to find the pain goes to a whole new level. 3 new troop upgrades means more than one tournament is going to see an increase in difficulty as a result of those 3 star troops.

The reality is by putting 3 star troops into tournaments that difficulty will increase, its a fact as they are better troops. The good news is those tournaments are now at they point they were planned to be and we can now assess their difficulty in comparison to others and adjust our plans as needed, the difficulty shouldn't be changing again.

Do people feel crystal tourny is harder then previous scrolls tourny? How would you judge it in the ranking of all tourny weeks difficulty?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Poor boy's FS is falling apart
I don't think it's falling apart at all. The three that went inactive recently all all stopped growing within a minute of each other on Sept 8th, just about the time the event was announced on Beta. I think one person was operating three cities and quit in a huff. The saddest part being, since all three cities were in chapter 3, it would have made almost no difference to them. they could still have used level one workshops and at most level 5 or 6 factories.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
You had best prepare yourself for next week, I suspect you are going to find the pain goes to a whole new level. 3 new troop upgrades means more than one tournament is going to see an increase in difficulty as a result of those 3 star troops.

Which tournaments do you think will have the biggest impact? It sounds like the frog princes were in planks last week but nobody really saw a huge change. So which tournaments will be most impacted by the vallorian guard and ranger upgrades?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Do people feel crystal tourny is harder then previous scrolls tourny? How would you judge it in the ranking of all tourny weeks difficulty?
I tried using the combined score for the top 10 teams on each of US1 through US6, but it became obvious that the event (9 provs or 45 tournament provs) threw everything out of whack.
Which tournaments do you think will have the biggest impact? It sounds like the frog princes were in planks last week but nobody really saw a huge change.
The one thing that is a bit telling is that for Event-Planks vs the previous (non-event) planks the sum of those 50 groups was 59,000 higher last week (+9%), while event-Crystal vs non-event-crystal was only up 10,000 (2%) Then again, the event ended part way into crystal. So all we really know is that there's no way to compare them because of too many confounding variables.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Which tournaments do you think will have the biggest impact? It sounds like the frog princes were in planks last week but nobody really saw a huge change. So which tournaments will be most impacted by the vallorian guard and ranger upgrades?

I noticed the frogs but didn't pay much attention to them in planks tourny but they wouldn't have been a primary enemy, hence lower numbers. My guess is scrolls tourney will be hard hit as the primary enemy is light range and the ranger is one of those. Similarly marble tournament primary enemy is heavy melee of which vallorian guard are one. The like difference between those 2 tournaments will be marble typically uses mages so long range attack (depending in race/chapter), while scrolls uses close combat troops and is one of the most complained about tournaments.

On the flip side the tournaments those units are used in will get easier once we unlock the 3 star troops, but that is a mighty long wait depending where you are in the tech tree.
 
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Black watch

Well-Known Member
I noticed the frogs but didn't pay much attention to them in planks tourny but they wouldn't have been a primary enemy, hence lower numbers. My guess is scrolls tourney will be hard hit as the primary enemy is light range and the ranger is one of those. Similarly marble tournament primary enemy is heavy melee of which vallorian guard are one. The like difference between those 2 tournaments will be marble typically uses mages so long range attack (depending in race/chapter), while scrolls uses close combat troops and is one of the most complained about tournaments.

On the flip side the tournaments those units are used in will get easier once we unlock the 3 star troops, but that is a might long wait depending where yu are in the tech tree.

Thanks for the info Mykan, and yeah, it'll be a long wait for ME.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Quaccy pointed out the great discrepancy between cannoneers and even frog 2 units vs. the frog prince in an earlier post in this thread.
So, per @MinMax Gamer via a thread linked from the German forums, it turns out we weren't imagining things and the troops weren't behaving as intended. CMs there have confirmed that troop boosts are being incorrectly applied to the new enemy troops as well as our own, which means the more boost you use, the harder the fights get.

I've no doubt there will follow a chorus of apologies from the people who insisted we were imagining everything and everything was exactly as intended /s
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
So, per @MinMax Gamer via a thread linked from the German forums, it turns out we weren't imagining things and the troops weren't behaving as intended. CMs there have confirmed that troop boosts are being incorrectly applied to the new enemy troops as well as our own, which means the more boost you use, the harder the fights get.

I've no doubt there will follow a chorus of apologies from the people who insisted we were imagining everything and everything was exactly as intended /s

I was starting to think I was loosing my mind... this explains things.
It won't bring back the boosts I wasted or the 345 squads I lost, but at least my mind isn't failing.
Well, I am playing this game, so I guess that's debatable.

Thanks Ashrem!
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
God, I hate to say it, but, again I was having more losses than expected.
I have no boost buildings in usuage adn only had my Fire Bird active. Losses were high and Crystal is known for it's terrible terrain problems so I scout the majority of the encounters. So, losses high, many encounters done with autofight which resulted in total destruction of units. Frog Prince obviously taking a huge toll on units.
A couple can mates have mentioned that they had some boost buildings active from usage in the provinces and when they ran out, the tourney became easier. There losses went down radically.
I didn't activate my Bird and my fourth star round was much easier than the first, second or third rounds.

It's possible something is in the mix that's not good. I'm thinking INNO either didn't fix the bug all the way or something new is now working.
I wouldn't be posting this if the results weren't so strong... I know how to fight if that's what where you've gone, my tourney average is 5,587.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
@Black watch It's quite simple to test if everything's as it should be, provided you can access the PC version of the game. Enter a fight manually and verify the numbers when units attack to see if they match up with what the game says they should be. No need to guess or be suspicious of things not working right since you can check them for yourself quite easily.

To that end, that's exactly what I did. With a damage range of 92018~124494, a squad of Frog Princes hit my Vallorian Guard for 23225 damage. This is consistent with the 80% damage reduction VGs have against heavy range units. In this case, the FP hit for 116125 damage, which is within its displayed attack range. If something like my Fire Phoenix buff had been erroneously applied to the FPs, that damage would not have been possible; the minimum damage I would have expected to take would have been 27065, which would have been the FP's minimum damage of 92018 multiplied by 1.5 to account for the Phoenix buff. Since the damage I took was below this value, it can be safely concluded that player damage buffs are no longer being applied to enemy units.

However, while I was checking this I did notice something else. After being hit and having the 30% damage taken debuff applied, my VG was hit by a second FP for 77699 damage. I can't figure out how to arrive at that number, so I can't confirm whether or not this is an issue as it could just be me not knowing how to math properly.
 
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