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    Your Elvenar Team

Current Squads Display Polling Question

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
This is not a post about the idea I submitted before. It is a post about what it means to have "enough votes." That makes it a question.

Anybody care to answer?

AJ
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
This is not a post about the idea I submitted before. It is a post about what it means to have "enough votes." That makes it a question.

Anybody care to answer?

AJ
One more than you get on any poll...

But I'm probably not the one from whom you want an answer.
 

Theodora

New Member
I got the impression from reading the mod response on the locked threads there wasn't alot of understanding of what was being suggested. I don't know if that's due having things lost in translation or not enough game knowledge to comprehend what's being suggested.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
I don't know what "enough votes" means. I've seen many suggestions forwarded with no votes at all.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
This is not a post about the idea I submitted before. It is a post about what it means to have "enough votes." That makes it a question.

Anybody care to answer?

AJ
When the mechanism was introduced, it was specifically a total of 20+ votes with more in favour than opposed. Now they have removed the number and it is the same level of capriciousness as all other forum moderation.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
This apparently doesn't actually mean what it says, but whatever the forum mod du jour wants it to mean.

1680018242960.png
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
This apparently doesn't actually mean what it says, but whatever the forum mod du jour wants it to mean.

View attachment 15205
The loophole used is the next point. Determining what is supported by the majority of the community by poll representation is up to the mods determination.
Any idea that does not meet the requirement of the poll, will not be forward. This will avoid forwarding ideas that are not supported by the majority of the community
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
The loophole used is the next point. Determining what is supported by the majority of the community by poll representation is up to the mods determination.
I'm not sure that differs from what I said. The forum mods are gatekeepers and are the only arbiters of what deserves to be seen by the devs. Polls only matter if they are sufficiently negative

1680027835143.png


1680027855617.png
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I'm not sure that differs from what I said. The forum mods are gatekeepers and are the only arbiters of what deserves to be seen by the devs. Polls only matter if they are sufficiently negative

View attachment 15208

View attachment 15209

I have always thought a poll needed a minimum of 20 votes, for or against, for it to be valid. I don't remember if that rule is only spelled out on the Beta forum or was something told to us here by a previous CM.

Edit: yep., these are the full rules from Beta:

* After this, the Moderator will open a poll in this thread. He/She will also make sure that in the opening post, there is a short description of the Idea (as well as in the Thread Title) and all detailed information is included in the rest of the in-depth description in that opening post.
* The poll will run for 14 days.
* During the poll, the discussion can still continue if anyone feels they have something valuable to add. However: No alterations can be made anymore to the idea as it's stated in the opening post, so please refrain from coming up with new ideas at this stage.
* At least a minimum of 20 individual players will have to vote (in favor/not in favor) for an idea to get approved.
* At least 80% of these players will have to vote in favor of the idea in its current state (to avoid forwarding ideas that aren't supported by a good majority of the community).
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
The loophole used is the next point. Determining what is supported by the majority of the community by poll representation is up to the mods determination.
My confusion was in assuming there was really no need to get votes as pretty much everyone (but not all, of course ;?)) were in favor. If I had known it takes 20 votes I'd have done some "politicking" to get it up to 20. My error.

In addition, it appears that ideas that do pass are not forwarded to the dev team but to the moderators first. This is, perhaps, an error in the description of the process in the past. I believe it's always assumed the idea, if it passes, gets passed onto the devs. But, not so. The mods have to pass it as well. Nice to know. From no on if I come up with an idea I'll just start with the moderators and be sure they are in favor of it before I post it in the forums. No point posting anything that the mods are against, right? (You might note that this is how it's done in real life...you begin with getting support at the top and work you way down. No Senator or Congressman consults his/her constituency in any meaningful way until they have good support for a bill among those voting on the bill. Once that's in place and it has a chance of passage then then go to their constituency and drum up support. Not because need the support to continue but because they need those voting for the bill to believe they, too, will have the support of their constituency.)

So now I'll just use the politically correct method, and suggest we all do the same.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
From no on if I come up with an idea I'll just start with the moderators and be sure they are in favor of it before I post it in the forums.

AJ
You can't, really. It isn't as simple as getting past the local mods. It only goes from here to the internal moderators' group, who then vote on it because they are only allowed to send a few ideas to the devs. So you need the "right" mods, and a bunch of them are international. And if anyone along the way doesn't understand the idea or just decides they don't like it, too bad. The whole thing seems designed to pay as little attention to the players as possible while pretending you are paying attention to them.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
You can't, really. It isn't as simple as getting past the local mods. It only goes from here to the internal moderators' group, who then vote on it because they are only allowed to send a few ideas to the devs. So you need the "right" mods, and a bunch of them are international. And if anyone along the way doesn't understand the idea or just decides they don't like it, too bad. The whole thing seems designed to pay as little attention to the players as possible while pretending you are paying attention to them.
I figured that so I'll just start with the mods I can reach (kidding).

On another note, if my suggestion was blocked because it didn't get enough votes, why can't I just resubmit and this time contact people to get them to go over and vote for it? If it had 20+ votes would that have made it pass?

Finally, since we can't really access the mods it seems a bit of a crap shoot to suggest anything. Think about the hurdles. You have to get a good idea, work it out, get it into an acceptable form, get 20+ people to vote for it (assuming nobody votes against it...questionable), then somehow get your moderators to be enthusiastic about it so they "champion" it in the moderator discussions, and, finally, if all are for it, you have to hope the the devs who you can't lobby will be for it -- probably by a big degree. So, what's the point of making suggestions? Too many steps you don't have any influence on and thus can't shepherd and idea through.

Oh well, believing I might actually contribute something to improving the game it was fun while it lasted.

On the other hand, this is a fantasy game, right? Maybe the suggestion box should be considered a fantasy game too.

AJ
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
You could always try making a bunch of supportive voting  alts friends as cheerleaders. :)
 
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Astram

Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
Just to make sure you know, the forum votes, if approved, are just the first step. After that, it goes to the CM group for a Vote to send to the Devs. After that, it is up to the devs. So my post that it did get enough votes to move forward means the CM group did not vote positively. Nothing more.
 

Dreamyn2

Buddy Fan Club member
@Astram, how many CMs are in the group that votes on recommended improvements suggested by players? How often do they meet? How many recommendations are typically presented for consideration in these meetings? How many of those actually make it to the devs?
 

Killy-

Well-Known Member
Sry, didn't see the idea in time, would have been one more yes vote. Relating to all the hurdles, I stopped making any suggestions, to much work for a too little chance to improve the game imo.
 
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