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    Your Elvenar Team

Curse of the Mist Walkers

crackie

Well-Known Member
They need to nerf Mist Walkers. I just did province #21 in tourney. My Lvl 29 Needles is +40% LR boost. Fed lvl 10 Fire Phoenix is another +50% LR boost. It took FOUR of my LR to kill ONE Mist Walker. That just ain't right! Only one of them was debuffed. The rest were fresh stacks due to high LR initiative. I swear Mist Walkers were spawn from Winter Lampions to annoy us. :mad:
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
Those things are mostly a mystery to me but what I have been able to find says use archers on two or less of them. Golems were recommended for other type encounters.
But what even are they classed as? Edit: I found it...light ranged.
Orc strategists don't work??
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
They are infinitely annoying enough already with a high initiative. No unit you own, human or elf, will ever act before a Mist Walker. A level 3 Mist Walker debuffs you for THREE rounds. Pair that with their high movement (4), a Mist Walker in Slot 1 can reach any of your units on opening round, bearing no obstruction, so you have to sit there and take a debuff like a sitting duck. Then they gave her ridiculously high health points too! My level 3 archer has a +20% attack bonus buff (on top of my Needles and fed Fire Phoenix) and it still takes 4 archers to kill one Mist Walker. That's just nonsensical. And that was just at Province 21. :mad:

Orc strategists don't work??
They're not as effective if secondary opponents are mages. They take a lot of damage and do little damage back. They work better if you pair against Light Range enemy and secondary opponents are Light Melee. In manual fights, I'll also use them if secondary opponent is Heavy Melee, but it's dicey on autofight because AI will send them to face a Heavy Melee and that will be the end of them. Manual fight, I can keep them away.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
They are enemy light range units. They have the highest initiative in the game as well as the highest movement range of any enemy light range. The only player unit that matches their movement is the Ranger, a Merc Camp unit you research in Ch9-Woodelves, but even they do not have as high an initiative. They have attack/defense bonuses against Heavy Melee and Mages, but they are a Mage Specialist. They reach +90% attack and -70% defense against Mages once you face 3* enemies. This means (1) They always get first strike. (2) They can usually reach any of your troops they choose. (3) They eat Mages while half asleep with their morning coffee. I use Archers against Mist Walkers a lot, but I also manual fight 95% of the time.
Here's my reasoning:
The [AI, algorithm or whatever you call it that controls all units during auto-fight and enemy units during manual fighting] selects targets in a specific order, prioritizing highest initiative, highest range units within strike range. Especially when I need to deploy Mages (elf here: Blossom Mage used a lot) when there's also Mist Walkers present (simple situation would be v 3 cannoneers/2 mist walkers), I like to have a couple Archers to draw that first shot from the Mist Walker away from the Mages. She'll do way less damage to my Archers. My Golems would not draw her fire. If terrain is in my favor, have each archer hit each MW, then Blossoms take out the cannoneers in one shot each*. Both MW's will be wounded, but may take out one Blossom (they'll both target the same Blossom if they can on their 2nd turn). The remaining archers and Blossoms should take them out before they get another turn.
Plus, I get a portion of my archers free from Shrewdy Shrooms. It's not as hard to replace those losses.
But when you get to province 20+ in the tourney, and the enemy squad sizes get so outrageous it takes 4 strikes from archers to kill one MW, everything takes a bigger hit. It's possible to win some of those fights, but at what a cost! My cities are Ch16 & Ch17 so I have all the units unlocked, they're all 3* units and I have a brown bear if needed. I still feel the hit to my resources when I get to those levels.

*I also place the same temp boost bldgs every week: 1-ELR, 1MMM for attack boosts, and either 2 UUU's or 1UUU with one DA for health boosts. Add to that the Monastery, Needles, Dragon Abbey and with those boosts, the Archers are no longer 'about even' against those Mist Walkers (or any other light range), they have an advantage against them; same for the Blossoms against enemy Mages.
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
*I also place the same temp boost bldgs every week: 1-ELR, 1MMM for attack boosts, and either 2 UUU's or 1UUU with one DA for health boosts. Add to that the Monastery, Needles, Dragon Abbey and with those boosts, the Archers are no longer 'about even' against those Mist Walkers (or any other light range), they have an advantage against them; same for the Blossoms against enemy Mages.
That's why I'm miffed. I didn't put the ELR out this week bc I have a MMM out. I usually only use one or the other depending on tourney/enemy type. I can generally get away without an ELR because I still have a very high Needles and a fed lvl 10 Fire Phoenix. Yes, I concede Mist Walkers are more deadly than my vanilla Archers, but surely with that much buffing, I would have tipped the balance in my favor! It should not take almost my entire army to take ONE down! And in Province 21! I'm still in the low 20's. I would accept it takes 4 Archers to take down a Mist Walker if (a) I was in the high 20s or low 30s provinces or (b) my Archer stacks have been shot at and are all debuffed, but only one was debuffed and the rest were fresh full stacks!
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
They are infinitely annoying enough already with a high initiative. No unit you own, human or elf, will ever act before a Mist Walker. A level 3 Mist Walker debuffs you for THREE rounds. Pair that with their high movement (4), a Mist Walker in Slot 1 can reach any of your units on opening round, bearing no obstruction, so you have to sit there and take a debuff like a sitting duck. Then they gave her ridiculously high health points too! My level 3 archer has a +20% attack bonus buff (on top of my Needles and fed Fire Phoenix) and it still takes 4 archers to kill one Mist Walker. That's just nonsensical. And that was just at Province 21. :mad:


They're not as effective if secondary opponents are mages. They take a lot of damage and do little damage back. They work better if you pair against Light Range enemy and secondary opponents are Light Melee. In manual fights, I'll also use them if secondary opponent is Heavy Melee, but it's dicey on autofight because AI will send them to face a Heavy Melee and that will be the end of them. Manual fight, I can keep them away.

Yikes!
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
They are enemy light range units. They have the highest initiative in the game as well as the highest movement range of any enemy light range. The only player unit that matches their movement is the Ranger, a Merc Camp unit you research in Ch9-Woodelves, but even they do not have as high an initiative. They have attack/defense bonuses against Heavy Melee and Mages, but they are a Mage Specialist. They reach +90% attack and -70% defense against Mages once you face 3* enemies. This means (1) They always get first strike. (2) They can usually reach any of your troops they choose. (3) They eat Mages while half asleep with their morning coffee. I use Archers against Mist Walkers a lot, but I also manual fight 95% of the time.
Here's my reasoning:
The [AI, algorithm or whatever you call it that controls all units during auto-fight and enemy units during manual fighting] selects targets in a specific order, prioritizing highest initiative, highest range units within strike range. Especially when I need to deploy Mages (elf here: Blossom Mage used a lot) when there's also Mist Walkers present (simple situation would be v 3 cannoneers/2 mist walkers), I like to have a couple Archers to draw that first shot from the Mist Walker away from the Mages. She'll do way less damage to my Archers. My Golems would not draw her fire. If terrain is in my favor, have each archer hit each MW, then Blossoms take out the cannoneers in one shot each*. Both MW's will be wounded, but may take out one Blossom (they'll both target the same Blossom if they can on their 2nd turn). The remaining archers and Blossoms should take them out before they get another turn.
Plus, I get a portion of my archers free from Shrewdy Shrooms. It's not as hard to replace those losses.
But when you get to province 20+ in the tourney, and the enemy squad sizes get so outrageous it takes 4 strikes from archers to kill one MW, everything takes a bigger hit. It's possible to win some of those fights, but at what a cost! My cities are Ch16 & Ch17 so I have all the units unlocked, they're all 3* units and I have a brown bear if needed. I still feel the hit to my resources when I get to those levels.

*I also place the same temp boost bldgs every week: 1-ELR, 1MMM for attack boosts, and either 2 UUU's or 1UUU with one DA for health boosts. Add to that the Monastery, Needles, Dragon Abbey and with those boosts, the Archers are no longer 'about even' against those Mist Walkers (or any other light range), they have an advantage against them; same for the Blossoms against enemy Mages.


Thank you for that info. I am in ch 12 and doing 20 in tourney. I am about to walk into that mess and I appreciate the heads up.
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
That's why I'm miffed. I didn't put the ELR out this week bc I have a MMM out. I usually only use one or the other depending on tourney/enemy type. I can generally get away without an ELR because I still have a very high Needles and a fed lvl 10 Fire Phoenix. Yes, I concede Mist Walkers are more deadly than my vanilla Archers, but surely with that much buffing, I would have tipped the balance in my favor! It should not take almost my entire army to take ONE down! And in Province 21! I'm still in the low 20's. I would accept it takes 4 Archers to take down a Mist Walker if (a) I was in the high 20s or low 30s provinces or (b) my Archer stacks have been shot at and are all debuffed, but only one was debuffed and the rest were fresh full stacks!

I understand your pain! Thanks to you for the info. I will be needing it shortly! So glad I asked.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't Cerberus be a great choice for a Mist Walker/mage combo?
For me, I rarely use Cerebus any longer*, though I did at lower chapters. My Monastery, Needles and Shrooms (gives free archers) are all lvl 21+ and that really tips the scale in favor of the archers. I might do a mix of Archers/Rangers in the higher provinces, but then the MW targets the Rangers instead of the Archers, debuffing their attack for 3 rounds and making them less effective on the Mages. Rangers have less base health than Archers, too. I can lose/replace way more archers than rangers or cerebus at a much lower cost.
*I'll sometimes use them for variety and more of a challenge when I'm manually fighting, as I will some of my other less often used troops (Sorceress/Banshee, Golems/Orc Strats, Dryads, Drone Riders). Those troops are fine, but the losses are always higher for me than with Archers/Blossoms. The troops I usually stay far away from in manual fights are Heavy Melee wherever possible. Manual fights are slow enough without watching those (very hard hitting/high health, 'good on paper') units take forever to lumber across the battlefield...
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't Cerberus be a great choice for a Mist Walker/mage combo? Either dogs or Rangers would be my pick for that line-up.
Yes and no. Like I said in the previous post, this tourney is full of mean combos. There are light range, mages, heavy range, and heavy melee all lingering about. If I only used doggies, it's gonna be problematic once the Mist Walker is dead and doggies have to go up against secondary enemies like a heavy melee Knight or Orc General. Two hits and that would be the end of them, and it's unavoidable too since doggies are melee so they would need to run up to the Heavy Melee units to attack.

But ignoring this particular tourney, if it were only Light Range/Mage combos, then yes, Cerebus would get the job done in that situation. HOWEVER, Cerebus is a light melee unit, which means he can only be buffed by fed Fire Phoenix. So far no wonder or expiring buildings can buff him more that I am aware of. This means up to a certain Province, it will take more than one bite to get rid of those pesky mages, whereas a buffed Archer can still kill the mage with one shot. Secondly, Cerebus acts after both Light Range AND Mages. He has to play sitting duck for a few rounds before he goes. In the higher provinces, that means he's likely going to be debuffed already by the time he goes since there are 3-star enemies abound. The Archer will go before the mage and you can already be done with the mages in one round.

As to Rangers, a lvl 3 Ranger has the health level that is only slightly better than a level ONE Archer, and lower than a level 2 Archer. Would I want to send a lvl 1 Archer into the higher provinces where I am grossly outnumbered? It's gonna have to be very specific scenarios, like Marble tourney combos of just Heavy Melee and Mages, but much harder to deploy in T3 tourneys with ugly combos. I mean, a lvl 1 Archer can barely handle province 10! If I spent 4 units on opening round trying to take down one Terminator Mist Walker that won't die, there's going to be 4 mostly untouched enemies to retaliate still before Round 1 concludes. A Ranger prob won't survive to see round 2. At province 21, if that Ancient Orc reaches him, I'm losing the whole Ranger stack in one go. They just don't get enough done in their short life and you'd just have to replace that whole stack of lost Rangers anyway. I also find that Archers kill other light range faster than a Ranger and definitely can take more hits. On mages, my Rangers like to play with their food and leave a morsel of health left on those pesky mages to make a mess of things debuffing everyone again instead of just killing them off with one shot. Rangers are very effective in the lower and mid-provinces though, but harder to deploy in the higher provinces when you can't afford to take many hits.

Essentially, if I only cared about victory, then it matters less. If I'm trying to win while also saving the most troops possible, I'll generally go with Archers.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@samidodamage My Victory Springs is about the same level as my Needles, so my Cerberus are getting just as much of a buff as my Rangers from AWs. To me the true difference is that Rangers can get an extra 50% buff from the Enlightened Light Range. And it is hard to compete with that much of an additional bonus. I think if such a building existed for light melee then Cerberus would be regarded a lot more highly.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
But ignoring this particular tourney, if it were only Light Range/Mage combos, then yes, Cerebus would get the job done in that situation. HOWEVER, Cerebus is a light melee unit, which means he can only be buffed by fed Fire Phoenix. So far no wonder or expiring buildings can buff him more that I am aware of.
Victory Springs is the AW that buffs light melee. And it also speeds up the Training Grounds. So you get both meaner dogs and more dogs. win/win :)
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
In a situation where I have no other choice but to use light range against MWs, I'd go for Daryads. They have stronger punch and higher health level compare to barracks and mercenary camp light range units.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
In a situation where I have no other choice but to use light range against MWs, I'd go for Daryads. They have stronger punch and higher health level compare to barracks and mercenary camp light range units.
Dryads do have the highest base attack rating. But they have the lowest health of any of the light range units.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
My Victory Springs is about the same level as my Needles, so my Cerberus are getting just as much of a buff as my Rangers from AWs.
That could help. My VS is only lvl 16. And yes, my Rangers get the same boost from Needles/ELR's as the Archers. The big thing for me is losses/replacement costs. I can replace more Archers than Rangers or Cerebus at a much lower cost. I don't get any free Cerebus. I'm now getting sorta free Rangers from the Dojo's. I have 5 out now and over time that should bring my Rangers up to where my Archers have been for ages. That's using a lot more space than my Shrooms is, though, with no other benefit, thus the 'sorta' free characterization. I have Shrooms primarily for the increased training size, and mostly ignored the archers it produced in lower chapters where I was using Cerebus more.
Since I'm usually on browser and all those troops are at >999, I took a quick look on my tablet for actual squads: Archers I have 4009 squads, Rangers I have 1267. Really nice surprise on the Cerebus (I don't train anything else in the Training Camp as I either don't use them or get them from other bldgs): they're at 5280 squads! Guess I'm going to to start using them more now :D
As far as Dryads: I prefer the Archers' decrease to the enemy's defenses for 2 rounds vs the Dryad's decrease to the enemy's attack for 3 rounds. I pretty much prefer that with any unit. With that decreased defense, other less deadly allies can do more damage, reducing the stack (and its attack strength) or even completely eliminating it before it gets a chance to take another turn. Remember, I have all 3* units and they face all 3* units so every troop on the field does one or the other to the stack it strikes except Mages (who add whichever one they don't have at 1* & 2* when they're promoted to 3*, so they do both now).
 

Bellerefon

Active Member
Have to agree with Sami, cerberus is not bringing desired benefit lately. It's a highly volatile unit. When used broadly, in more than one that is, effect is not desirable.
If secondary units are mages, then i would use venoms (for MRs) and rangers (for mages), especially if i don't see a heavy range on the other side.
If secondary is heavy ranged, then i would use orc strategists and prolly banshees or VG depending on the type of 5th opp.
If secondary is heavy melee, then i would use orc strategists and prolly blossoms over dryads depending on the type of 5th opp.

In any case i would also play with positioning. Assuming that positions 1-2-3-4-5 in selection panel, deploy as 4-2-1-3-5 on battlefield i would select venoms or orcs on the first positions (so they deploy on the middle). I would also avoid banshees, blossoms or VGs on positions 4-1-5 as these 90% take the first hit from MRs.
 

SunsetDanar

Well-Known Member
That could help. My VS is only lvl 16. And yes, my Rangers get the same boost from Needles/ELR's as the Archers. The big thing for me is losses/replacement costs. I can replace more Archers than Rangers or Cerebus at a much lower cost. I don't get any free Cerebus. I'm now getting sorta free Rangers from the Dojo's. I have 5 out now and over time that should bring my Rangers up to where my Archers have been for ages. That's using a lot more space than my Shrooms is, though, with no other benefit, thus the 'sorta' free characterization. I have Shrooms primarily for the increased training size, and mostly ignored the archers it produced in lower chapters where I was using Cerebus more.
Since I'm usually on browser and all those troops are at >999, I took a quick look on my tablet for actual squads: Archers I have 4009 squads, Rangers I have 1267. Really nice surprise on the Cerebus (I don't train anything else in the Training Camp as I either don't use them or get them from other bldgs): they're at 5280 squads! Guess I'm going to to start using them more now :D
As far as Dryads: I prefer the Archers' decrease to the enemy's defenses for 2 rounds vs the Dryad's decrease to the enemy's attack for 3 rounds. I pretty much prefer that with any unit. With that decreased defense, other less deadly allies can do more damage, reducing the stack (and its attack strength) or even completely eliminating it before it gets a chance to take another turn. Remember, I have all 3* units and they face all 3* units so every troop on the field does one or the other to the stack it strikes except Mages (who add whichever one they don't have at 1* & 2* when they're promoted to 3*, so they do both now).

I'll just reply to this one as you have covered pretty much all of the variables and as you said, the effectiveness in battle against this bad guy is gonna be different for everyone and everyone is not gonna be set up the same so there is no static solution to the original question. Oh...and good job.
 
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