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    Your Elvenar Team

Curse of the Mist Walkers

Raccon

Well-Known Member
Agreed, time wise, auto fight is much more practical. Having to switch to manual fight, now I manage to do less in tournaments as the auto fight became less practical and more costly. That's why there's been repeated requests to have the battlefield obstacle layout visible on mobile for auto fights. So auto fights would be more fair for those who don't have time or want to do more tournament provinces.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
They are infinitely annoying enough already with a high initiative. No unit you own, human or elf, will ever act before a Mist Walker. A level 3 Mist Walker debuffs you for THREE rounds. Pair that with their high movement (4), a Mist Walker in Slot 1 can reach any of your units on opening round, bearing no obstruction, so you have to sit there and take a debuff like a sitting duck. Then they gave her ridiculously high health points too! My level 3 archer has a +20% attack bonus buff (on top of my Needles and fed Fire Phoenix) and it still takes 4 archers to kill one Mist Walker. That's just nonsensical. And that was just at Province 21. :mad:


They're not as effective if secondary opponents are mages. They take a lot of damage and do little damage back. They work better if you pair against Light Range enemy and secondary opponents are Light Melee. In manual fights, I'll also use them if secondary opponent is Heavy Melee, but it's dicey on autofight because AI will send them to face a Heavy Melee and that will be the end of them. Manual fight, I can keep them away.
The only trick I know and havent used for a while, in round 1 (and round 1 only) some units are preferred on the attack.
For example an archer or dryad is attacked in round 1 instead of blossom mage (but not sorceres) if the mistwalker can reach that unit.

there are some curiosities in the AI that you might be able to exploit.
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
Calling out to manual fighters...is this a bug?

The Stats: Sneaky Mist Walker (3*) has highest priority out of all units (enemies, humans, elves). Bud Sorceress (3*) has Broken Valor debuff for -50% for 2 rounds.
The Scenario: Misty goes first and shoots at whatever (Dryad). Then let's say due to lack of better options from terrain, Buddy has to hit Misty. Everyone else goes and we cycle back to Misty. Her buffs/debuffs are cleared before she fires.
The Expectation: Misty should fire 2nd shot with a debuff still on.

If when Buddy sticks the Broken Valor on counts as Round 1 and Misty gets a bye because she already acted, then where is Round 2? Shouldn't Broken Valor come off AFTER Misty fires again and not before? I used to think this is an initiative thing, but I don't see how this counts as 2 rounds of debuff anyway you count it. Damn Mist Walker is already too strong and annoying without getting free passes on debuffs! No cheating on getting out of Buddy's debuffs! What sort of lousy math is it that you hit someone with 2 rounds of debuffs and she fires both rounds at full strength? And if this is NOT a bug, then they're saying the only way to stick a debuff on a Mist Walker as she fires is with someone that has ability to stick on 3 rounds of debuffs??? Misty already has a native defense against mages so it's already a bad matchup trying to debuff her :mad:

I was paying closer attention on debuff rounds for research. For example, Buddy hits a Cannoneer. She acts before them. Cannoneer fires off a shot on his turn after Buddy with a debuff on him. I leave him alone for a whole round for research purposes to see what happens next round. We come back around to him and he fires a second shot with debuff still on. THEN the debuff clears. That's correct count of debuff for 2 rounds.

*marches and chants "Boo Mist Walkers! Justice for Buddy!"*
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
I *think* it's working as intended. Still:
"Boo Mist Walkers! Justice for Buddy!"*
I've not seen it with the MW's, but I've seen it clearly with Frogs who have a one round defense debuff. When I use frogs, they're frequently the last of my units in a round. If there are 2 frogs, the 2nd frog (and last unit for that round) will strike the affected unit while the debuff is active. As soon as the round ends, it disappears. You can see this happen as the bottom UI scrolls the units and shows the round change. Basically, it counts the round where it is delivered as the first round. I guess it's because if the unit delivering the debuff is the first of your units in a round, you have 4 units that can take advantage of that debuffed enemy during that round. Doesn't help much when that enemy unit has already had its strike that round and you're delivering an attack debuff.
I've always preferred the defense over the attack anyway; this new insight is not likely to change that, lol! I've seen the attack debuff as only being of benefit to me if that unit survives to strike again. For example, I prefer Archers over Dryads always. The defense debuff helps insure the enemy unit will not survive to strike again. If they do survive, their attack damage is likely reduced more than it would have been with an attack debuff due to the small numbers of the squad that are left. Basically, I want my enemies either dead or mortally wounded, not just weakened, lol!
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
I've been doing mostly auto fights lately to cover more provinces, but I understand the frustration as the MW inflicts even more damage in auto fight!
A Mist Walker on battle field is like a modern battle tank unleashed against cavemen armed with spears and rocks!
I can't help but to feel the need for a dedicated evolving building just to mitigate MW's extraordinary powers to a reasonablely normal level. A polar phoenix that would freeze all MW's super powers and previlages for 24hrs per pet food ;)
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
Basically, it counts the round where it is delivered as the first round.
The first round she gets a pass because she already went, which is like the situation with the Tired Toad (really? that's the 3* Toad's name?) as you've described. But Buddy's debuff is good for 2 rounds, so where is the second round debuff then? Like I said, it's lousy math if I debuff her for 2 rounds but she gets to fire both rounds at full strength. If it's 2 rounds, then she gets a pass on the first round, but has to fire second round with a debuff and they clear after everyone goes in 2nd round. If they already clear BEFORE she fires on her second turn, then she is only debuffed for one round (the previous round).
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
But Buddy's debuff is good for 2 rounds, so where is the second round debuff then?
That's kinda like when I was trying to use my last frog in round 1 to put a defense debuff on a unit so that I could then one-shot kill it with my Archer. If that frog is the last unit of either side in the round, that defense debuff barely lasts long enough for it to stay on the screen! Zero benefits from it. That's when I started watching for what the game counts as a 'round'.
Tired Toad (really? that's the 3* Toad's name?)
I could have sworn they were Frog Prince when they first came out?!! I had to look it up and you're correct, they're called Tired Toads. I know 3*Rangers were called Forest Wardens when they first came out and now they're called Pro Rangers. I was 'ok, whatever' about that change. But 'Tired Toads'?? Inno, you can do better! If 'Prince' limited names for future promotions, why not change it to Frog Baron, then you have Viscount, Earl, Marquess, Duke, Prince and King (just in case you think these guys will eventually reach 9* :rolleyes: ).
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
That's kinda like when I was trying to use my last frog in round 1 to put a defense debuff on a unit so that I could then one-shot kill it with my Archer. If that frog is the last unit of either side in the round, that defense debuff barely lasts long enough for it to stay on the screen! Zero benefits from it. That's when I started watching for what the game counts as a 'round'.
Yeah, I noticed that with Ghastly Banshee since her debuff is only good for one round too. Look...

Scenario 1:
If we say the conclusion of a round is the beginning of a unit's turn (like we're observing with Mist Walker's behavior), then this should hypothetically be what happens if I debuff a Cannoneer:

Buddy acts before Cannoneer to cast Broken Valor. Then we can say he clears the debuff at the start of his turn (like Mist Walker) so he is shooting with a debuff on because that's the 2nd round of Buddy's Broken Valor still stuck on him. However, it would mean if we swing back around to the Canoneer a second time, he would be shooting with 0 debuffs.

From my observations, that's not what happens. He shoots 2 rounds debuffed. That means the end of the round is after he acts, not before. Soo why then would Mist Walker's rounds conclude before she acts?

Scenario 2: If one round concludes at the end of a unit's turn, then Mist Walker fires her round before Buddy for her first shot and counts for 1 round of Broken Valor. The debuff does not hypothetically clear until after she shoots her 2nd turn. Yet, she shoots both rounds debuff free.

Scenario 3:
If one round starts with Mist Walker (highest initiative) and ends with Treant (lowest initiative), then if Buddy shoots Misty, that first round of Broken Valor is wasted because she already went. However, the second round Broken Valor should end after the last Treant moves. That means Mist Walker has to fire her second round with a debuff on since the turn doesn't end until everyone else goes. As I've observed, that's also not the case. She's getting a free pass!

*marches and chants "BOO MIST WALKERS! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!"*
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
@crackie
Just to make sure I'm clear: I'm not disagreeing with you about how it should work. I'm just trying to explain how it does work. I'm not opposed to someone (as long as it's not me, lol! that would be too hard and time consuming to shepherd through the process for me!) making a formal suggestion to modify how it works. I just want to make sure we all understand how it is currently working so we can better decide how/what needs to be changed.
To that end:
The display for the duration of the debuff is 'rounds'. The bottom UI shows the 'round'. A 'round' consists of each unit on the field (on both sides) having a turn. The debuffs applied last however many rounds depending on the unit. The game counts the round in which it is cast as the first round for which it is applied. Then, it continues in effect until the end of [however many rounds of its duration]. All debuffs expire when the 'Round #X' changes on the bottom UI. It does not expire at the end of a turn of either the unit that cast the debuff or the unit that received the debuff or any other unit on the field (except coincidentally with the unit on the field who has the last turn of the round).
^^That's what we need to decide if/how we'd like to change.

*marching w/ crackie & chanting "BOO MIST WALKERS! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!"
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
My understanding of a round is also at the completion of when everyone goes (Scenario 3). I threw out the other scenarios to show either which way you count a Round, even hypothetically, it's inconsistent and that darn Mist Walker is cheating! Yes, them be fighting words! :mad:

@helya Can you confirm if this pre-action buff/debuff clearing of Mist Walkers is a feature or a bug?

*marches and chants "BOO MIST WALKER! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!"*
(I'm running out of font sizes to increase my protest chants.)
 

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
My understanding of a round is also at the completion of when everyone goes (Scenario 3). I threw out the other scenarios to show either which way you count a Round, even hypothetically, it's inconsistent and that darn Mist Walker is cheating! Yes, them be fighting words! :mad:

@helya Can you confirm if this pre-action buff/debuff clearing of Mist Walkers is a feature or a bug?

*marches and chants "BOO MIST WALKER! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!"*
(I'm running out of font sizes to increase my protest chants.)
I'm a little lost. I fight, I rarely manual fight unless the enemies are more random than normal, so talk to me like I'm not so smart.
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
I'm a little lost. I fight, I rarely manual fight unless the enemies are more random than normal, so talk to me like I'm not so smart.
Buddy's Broken Valor bonus is a -50% debuff for 2 rounds. If Buddy sticks one on Mist Walker, it is expected that she must fire the next round debuffed. However, the debuff icons disappear before she fires. Therefore, she is only debuffed for 1 round. Buddy is getting cheated out of her second round of debuff!

Plot thickens though. I was able to duplicate this twice during one of my tourney rounds. I just tried to test it on the map encounter since I'm done with tourney for the week. On the map encounter, the debuff stayed on her for two rounds like it's supposed to! I also tried to test Sword Acrobats since they can debuff for 2 rounds too, but my Sword Acrobat killed her in one swing and I don't have any harder map provinces to test on.
debuff mist walker.jpg

Mist Walker shooting at Buddy without a debuff :mad:

Sword Dancers Experiment 2.jpg

Die Mist Walker! (That's German for "The Mist Walker!")

BOO MIST WALKER! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
I did notice something as well. Now, y'all know I don't record numbers. But the opponents are shrugging off their wounds and effects too soon, for one thing. I think some of mine are doing the same, but not nearly as often. Also, my troops are getting their butts royally kicked at too high a rate. I have been manual for most of the week, and I can assure you, terrain should be a factor about 35 percent of the time. But the losses are higher than that.
 

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Buddy's Broken Valor bonus is a -50% debuff for 2 rounds. If Buddy sticks one on Mist Walker, it is expected that she must fire the next round debuffed. However, the debuff icons disappear before she fires. Therefore, she is only debuffed for 1 round. Buddy is getting cheated out of her second round of debuff!

Plot thickens though. I was able to duplicate this twice during one of my tourney rounds. I just tried to test it on the map encounter since I'm done with tourney for the week. On the map encounter, the debuff stayed on her for two rounds like it's supposed to! I also tried to test Sword Acrobats since they can debuff for 2 rounds too, but my Sword Acrobat killed her in one swing and I don't have any harder map provinces to test on.
View attachment 12684
Mist Walker shooting at Buddy without a debuff :mad:

View attachment 12685
Die Mist Walker! (That's German for "The Mist Walker!")

BOO MIST WALKER! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!
Do you mind if I move this one post over to the bugs thread?
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
Buddy's Broken Valor bonus is a -50% debuff for 2 rounds. If Buddy sticks one on Mist Walker, it is expected that she must fire the next round debuffed. However, the debuff icons disappear before she fires. Therefore, she is only debuffed for 1 round. Buddy is getting cheated out of her second round of debuff!

Plot thickens though. I was able to duplicate this twice during one of my tourney rounds. I just tried to test it on the map encounter since I'm done with tourney for the week. On the map encounter, the debuff stayed on her for two rounds like it's supposed to! I also tried to test Sword Acrobats since they can debuff for 2 rounds too, but my Sword Acrobat killed her in one swing and I don't have any harder map provinces to test on.
View attachment 12684
Mist Walker shooting at Buddy without a debuff :mad:

View attachment 12685
Die Mist Walker! (That's German for "The Mist Walker!")

BOO MIST WALKER! JUSTICE FOR BUDDY!
I wonder if Mist Walker's strike back is also unaffected by Buddiy's %50 attack reduction spell. On paper, once Mist Walker got hit by Buddy, her strike back should also lose %50 of it's power. So Buddy should recive %50 less strike back damage from Mist Walker!
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Mist Walker's strike back is also unaffected by Buddiy's %50 attack reduction spell. On paper, once Mist Walker got hit by Buddy, her strike back should also lose %50 of it's power. So Buddy should recive %50 less strike back damage from Mist Walker!
That screenshot isn’t from a strike back. It is from Round 2 when Misty goes again after she’s already been tagged with a debuff. She should be shooting with debuff icons on her still but they are cleared already. She does strikeback with a debuff on when you shoot her the first time, but I didn’t pay attention to the numbers to see if the strikeback is debuffed.
Do you mind if I move this one post over to the bugs thread?
You can prob split off from post #63 to bugs thread. Thank you! Yay, justice for Buddy!
 
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