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    Your Elvenar Team

Diamond Purchase Protest - Changes to Lighthouse & Bell Tower AWs Unacceptable

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Do you hold any common or preferred shares in any Public Company?
Do you even know what you're referring to?
after you ran crying to mama Forum Moderator
Do you have some sort of persecution complex
is your life so vacuous
I pity you.
so thin skinned that you whine to the touch
If you want to know why you have trouble assuaging me, it's because you haven't tried.

Something you probably aren't aware of is that Words are my business. I get paid actual money by professional publishers to write fiction that gets printed on dead trees and sold in real book stores. I know words. I know when someone is using words to try to smear me. In this one thread you've used at least seven separate phrases that are intended to call into question the reliability of my statements in the view of other readers, or to bully me into withdrawing from the argument. This is not the only thread where you have been doing it, and I am not the only person you've done it to. In all that time, the closest I've come to getting personal is calling one of your claims ludicrous. Not you, your claim. I have never referred to your intellectual capacity. I have never publicly questioned your bonafides as a knowledgeable investor. I have never directed any disparaging comment at you as a person. Yet you feel comfortable repeatedly inserting little comments that belittle me as a person. Not my arguments, but me.
 
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DeletedUser12336

Guest
Release notes for October 12 state that there will be changes to Crystal Light House / Bell Spire. I hope if they don't revert the original change, at least they make it a little better. I loved seeing little bit of goods pop up as a reward every time I visited someone. Only seeing gold and may be occasionally supplies isn't that encouraging. Collecting chests is boring unless they add something else to it like runes or even diamonds. Then the treasure chests would truly be fun to search for.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Release notes for October 12 state that there will be changes to Crystal Light House / Bell Spire. I hope if they don't revert the original change, at least they make it a little better. I loved seeing little bit of goods pop up as a reward every time I visited someone. Only seeing gold and may be occasionally supplies isn't that encouraging. Collecting chests is boring unless they add something else to it like runes or even diamonds. Then the treasure chests would truly be fun to search for.
I do not interpret anything in the release notes that way. The only thing I saw addressed was that the stuff you get from the lighthouse wasn't showing up in inventory immediately. that is a display/synchronization fix, not a change to how the lighthouse works.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
I just saw this thread.
What is glaringly obvious is that not one Moderator has replied to it yet, with an 'official' response - despite an obvious high level of player dissatisfaction.

I have three points to add to the debate:

1. The Crystal Lighthouse / Bellspire is still a good Wonder, for its boost of neighbor help - it is jjust not as good as it used to be;
I disagree. It now is pretty worthless. For someone who hasn't gotten it yet, the amount of goods is pretty minimal, but it takes up a lot of space. So its not really worth building.
For those who have it, but have upgraded it, it now is 'dead' The increase one may get by upgrading it further is completely out of sync with the amounts of KPs needed. So at best it will stay as it is.
Personally, I hope they reconsider, but if not, and if I continue to play, this building will be the first to be deleted when I need some more space.
So far the only other reason not to do so right away is the fact that the lvls count towards the amount of divine seeds harvested.

2. This is not the first time that the design team have down-valued a game element. (For example: Down-valuing the prizes in the last Event was explained by Timon thus - he said the previous event they made the prizes too good, so they had adjusted them down again.)

Why do they do this?
It causes immense player dissatisfaction to be given something - and then to have it taken away again;
Good question. Inno seems hell-bent on annoying its loyal players. Don't ask me why. If one believes in conspiracies one might think it has to do with research on how far one can push people before a game collapses.
Of course, downgrading something sometimes has to be done. Hardly anybody objects to that. Downgrading is not the same as cutting off 75-80% of the performance of a building.

3. Why not give us extra Treasure Chests?
Three basic like now, and then one for every x amount of visits. That is the perfect solution! Because then you will get extra goods directly in proportion to the number of times you visit - and we will be back where we used to be and no one will have grounds to complain.

If the developers do not want to give away masses of prizes - there is simple solution to that too!
Re-structure the chest contents while adjusting the daily number - give lots of low value prizes liek 30 minute instants or coin rain 5%, relics, Enchantments - and add in a very valuable mystery chest at random every now and again, with something very special inside - like a 100% Instant, or a BluePrint.

That would:

1. Make the CL / BS rewards fair again and close to how they used to be;
2. Give people a reason to visit more
3. Make the daily visits more exciting!!

I hope that someone forwards this suggestion to the designers...

J

Several solutions have been posted by several people. Inno just doesn't seem to give a flying -beep- about its players. If they did, they at least would have made mention of it in the new releasenotes.
 
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Arkadia

Well-Known Member
That's 75 whales who realistically only buy when the new chapter comes out, so no diamonds would have been bought at this time anyway...

You're largely mistaken. Obviously you haven't been a 'whale' yet, but putting them down from afar :)



2. This is not the first time that the design team have down-valued a game element. (For example: Down-valuing the prizes in the last Event was explained by Timon thus - he said the previous event they made the prizes too good, so they had adjusted them down again.)

Why do they do this?
It causes immense player dissatisfaction to be given something - and then to have it taken away again;

^^^ That is the reason so many are disappointed.
We are here to play a game, to enjoy it, not to be disappointed.
 
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DeletedUser10114

Guest
I disagree. It now is pretty worthless. For someone who hasn't gotten it yet, the amount of goods is pretty minimal, but it takes up a lot of space. So its not really worth building.
For those who have it, but have upgraded it, it now is 'dead' The increase one may get by upgrading it further is completely out of sync with the amounts of KPs needed. So at best it will stay as it is.
Personally, I hope they reconsider, but if not, and if I continue to play, this building will be the first to be deleted when I need some more space.
So far the only other reason not to do so right away is the fact that the lvls count towards the amount of divine seeds harvested.


Good question. Inno seems hell-bent on annoying its loyal players. Don't ask me why. If one believes in conspiracies one might think it has to do with research on how far one can push people before a game collapses.
Of course, downgrading something sometimes has to be done. Hardly anybody objects to that. Downgrading is not the same as cutting off 75-80% of the performance of a building.



Several solutions have been posted by several people. Inno just doesn't seem to give a flying -beep- about its players. If they did, they at least would have made mention of it in the new releasenotes.
I am sorry but I dont agree. My perspective may be different (finished with Halflings) but I definitely didnt get a significant % of my goods from the old Lighthouse Boost. Again, non-typical # of factories in my city, however my favorite aspect of the lighthouse was the many extra hours it added to the helping hands from my neighbors and FS clicks. I will not be dumping this AW and will continue to upgrade it.
 

DeletedUser6459

Guest
Many of us are very concerned about the changes made to Lighthouse and Sanctuary AWs which results in a very significant reduction in the worth of those AWs to active players who visit their neighbours regularly. The feedback from players in beta and here is clearly not being listened to and the response from Support is 'Raise the issue on the Forum'. I have also been asked by other players to raise this as a new thread.

As will be seen in the comments to game release 39 the feeling from many players is passionate about the effects of the changes made.
We now have 2 top Fellowships withholding purchases of diamonds in Arendyll and would welcome further support for our protest, I am told that Fellowships in other Worlds are also taking this action.

In Arendyll Phoenix Power has changed our name to PHOENIX POWER - PROTESTING and our Fellowship description now reads -

During October 2017 our players will not be purchasing or using diamonds as a protest regarding the changes to Lighthouse & Bell Tower AWs. Support and developers have failed to respond to the genuine concerns of a high volume of players in beta and the live forum regarding these changes.

The changes will reduce the volume of goods received by all active players who visit more than 30 Fellowship members and/or Neighbours each day. This will have the effect of reducing neighbourhood visits significantly as the benefits disappear. It will also have an effect on the ability to participate in tournaments and negotiating provinces. The value which players have invested in these AWs have been taken resulting in that investment now being almost worthless.

Inno - PLEASE PLEASE reconsider this change as it is blatantly unfair.

We encourage other Fellowships to join our protest.


There has been no comment from any of the game moderators in the forum responding to any of our comments and we seem to be totally ignored. The initial announcement of the change here and previously in beta were blatantly untrue for active players.

We ask all other Fellowships in all Worlds to support our protest by not using or buying diamonds during October in the hope that we will be given a reasoned argument supporting the changes made or a modification to give some of the significant value taken away from active players who love this game.

Great idea and The Last Monarchy will participate from today, Maybe it's time to take this one step further and boycott the game completely for a certain time frame (say a week) that way everyone could get involved whether they buy diamonds or not.

Our fellowship has felt the effect of the changes, with a huge loss of visits and goods. Speaking for myself, the visits from outside have dropped considerably. The answer I got from INNO, was that this change promotes the importance of visiting neighbors. This might be true in Cloud Cuckoo Land, but not in the real world. I don't understand how they can possibly come to this conclusion.
 

DeletedUser6459

Guest
I am sorry but I dont agree. My perspective may be different (finished with Halflings) but I definitely didnt get a significant % of my goods from the old Lighthouse Boost. Again, non-typical # of factories in my city, however my favorite aspect of the lighthouse was the many extra hours it added to the helping hands from my neighbors and FS clicks. I will not be dumping this AW and will continue to upgrade it.

I am glad if the change hasn't effected you so much. The loss to my city is approximately equivalent to running 44 x 3hr goods (lvl 19) a day at cl level 11. A huge loss from my daily visits.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@bigT30
I'm glad for you it hasn't affected you negatively.

Again, non-typical # of factories in my city, however my favorite aspect of the lighthouse was the many extra hours it added to the helping hands from my neighbors and FS clicks. I will not be dumping this AW and will continue to upgrade it.

But you make it clear you have a non-typical number of factories.
Since you're not adversely affected, that means you have (way) more factories than most people, so though I'm glad for you, its hardly possible to adapt that style for most players.
 

DeletedUser12233

Guest
Many of us are very concerned about the changes made to Lighthouse and Sanctuary AWs which results in a very significant reduction in the worth of those AWs to active players who visit their neighbours regularly. The feedback from players in beta and here is clearly not being listened to and the response from Support is 'Raise the issue on the Forum'. I have also been asked by other players to raise this as a new thread.

As will be seen in the comments to game release 39 the feeling from many players is passionate about the effects of the changes made.
We now have 2 top Fellowships withholding purchases of diamonds in Arendyll and would welcome further support for our protest, I am told that Fellowships in other Worlds are also taking this action.

In Arendyll Phoenix Power has changed our name to PHOENIX POWER - PROTESTING and our Fellowship description now reads -

During October 2017 our players will not be purchasing or using diamonds as a protest regarding the changes to Lighthouse & Bell Tower AWs. Support and developers have failed to respond to the genuine concerns of a high volume of players in beta and the live forum regarding these changes.

The changes will reduce the volume of goods received by all active players who visit more than 30 Fellowship members and/or Neighbours each day. This will have the effect of reducing neighbourhood visits significantly as the benefits disappear. It will also have an effect on the ability to participate in tournaments and negotiating provinces. The value which players have invested in these AWs have been taken resulting in that investment now being almost worthless.

Inno - PLEASE PLEASE reconsider this change as it is blatantly unfair.

We encourage other Fellowships to join our protest.


There has been no comment from any of the game moderators in the forum responding to any of our comments and we seem to be totally ignored. The initial announcement of the change here and previously in beta were blatantly untrue for active players.

We ask all other Fellowships in all Worlds to support our protest by not using or buying diamonds during October in the hope that we will be given a reasoned argument supporting the changes made or a modification to give some of the significant value taken away from active players who love this game.


The change has pretty much stopped my neighborly help. The usual neighbors who used to visit me have pretty much stopped. I have also stopped. I am now only visiting neighbors who visit me, which in the last 3 days was only one neighbor. Not only has visiting stopped, but trading has also stopped. I used to pick up 2 star and 3 star trades for ALL my lower level neighbors - no matter what the trade was for. Now I do not unless it is someone wanting my boosted goods for something in the same tier. Likewise, none of my neighbors are picking up my trades anymore. Only my fellowship is picking up my trades. Players just dont have the goods to trade anymore.

This change has curbed my enthusiasm for this game, and I do not find it as much fun as before. Honestly this change feels like my last straw. I am sick of Inno's fake reasons for the changes to disguise their greed. I would have quit the game because of this change if it was not for my fellowship and the friends I have made. They are the only reason I am still playing. If Inno does not restore the crystal lighthouse, which I have spent actual money to upgrade, then if I keep playing I will no longer be the heavy diamond player I was. This protest has taught me how to play without using diamonds. It is not as much fun, and I do not spend nearly as much time playing now. If Inno continues to keep taking away from their loyal players, and continues to be greedy, then I will find another company / hobby to spend my money on.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@Kalomom

Indeed, I am in complete agreement.
Actually, with me being at the end of the research tree in one city and nearing the end on my other, I'm pretty much considering whether this game is worth continuing, since everything that has to do with interacting with players has been removed from any incentive.
 

DeletedUser7367

Guest
@Kalomom

Indeed, I am in complete agreement.
Actually, with me being at the end of the research tree in one city and nearing the end on my other, I'm pretty much considering whether this game is worth continuing, since everything that has to do with interacting with players has been removed from any incentive.
Appropriate that we bring back B.B. King and Lucille>>>
The thrill is gone
The thrill is gone away
The thrill is gone baby
The thrill is gone away
You know you done me wrong baby
And you'll be sorry someday

The thrill is gone
It's gone away from me
The thrill is gone baby
The thrill is gone away from me
Although I'll still live on
But so lonely I'll be

The thrill is gone, is gone away for good
Oh the thrill is gone, baby it's gone away for good
Someday I know I'll be over it all baby
Just like I know a man should

You know I'm free, free now baby
I'm free from your spell
Oh I'm free, free, free now
I'm free from your spell
And now that it's over
All I can do is wish you well
 

DeletedUser663

Guest
Over 80% of players on Arendyll server have less than 24,000 points which took me 58 days to achieve when I started playing Elvenar.

To get to a position where you can acquire a Lighthouse or Bell Tower you need to have completed chapter 4 in the research tree. My guess is that around 24,000 points would be needed for this. Thus, probably less than 20% of players have the AWs concerned and many of these will be at a very low level.

Where players with the AWs are inactive or do very little within the game I understand that the change will help those players, providing they now take the trouble to visit a few fellows or neighbours and also search for the chests to get the rewards. These players gain an advantage for continuing to do very little.

However for active players with the AWs, maybe 5% of the total users, they will be disadvantaged by the changes. Are the changes really targeting the right players, I think not. These players are the ones who have proved that they enjoy Elvenar and should be encouraged rather than discouraged. They are the ones who are most likely to buy diamonds to support the game development in the future.

The active players will probably have a fellowship and by visiting their fellows will gain no further advantage by also visiting neighbours.- in one step you have significantly reduced the incentive for these players to visit neighbours. This starts a downward spiral in visiting rates and hurts less developed players - the reduced visits mean less benefits and slows their progress and game enjoyment.

You have indicated that you want players to visit neighbours more, but this has the opposite effect.

Please, PLEASE reconsider these changes.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
But you make it clear you have a non-typical number of factories.
Since you're not adversely affected, that means you have (way) more factories than most people, so though I'm glad for you, its hardly possible to adapt that style for most players.
But you make it clear you complete a non-typical number of visits.
Since you're adversely affected, that means you completed (way) more visits than most people, so though I'm sad for you, its hardly possible to balance this wonder for most players. (without any change)

Just to give some perspective from the other side
I don't know if Timon pulled that "we looked at the data and only 5%" number out of his bum or what cities were included in his data, but I think it is possible that because visits are so tedious that a very large number of active players do not do visits on the world map.
If we look only at players that visit their FS the CL/BS went from a max of 24 to 30. That is a 25% increase in goods for every single player that doesn't visit on the map. For players in a FS that isn't full, the increase is even higher.

There is no excuse for completely overlooking (or even not being aware of?) hardcore visit players, but at least we can understand inno's thinking- even if we don't agree with it.

To add a tiny bit more data to what we have, in my 2 top 50 ranked fellowships only 3 players do world visits any time other than in an emergency(13 players have CL/BS). That's 6% of what I think I are very active players (minimum weekly visits is 6)
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@SoggyShorts
You now are putting up a non-sensical argument just for the sake of arguing..

The argument of (me, or anyone) making a non-typical number of visits is completely nonsensical. One has to use data available, and for players that's limited. But 50-100 visits per day was definitely not uncommon.

And when is it non-typical? With factories its relatively easy to determine. Much simpler than with visits. And other than visits, EVERYONE who wishes to, can sit down one day, look at the top 5000, or top 10000 players, and get a good impression of what an average number of factories is, and what the average distribution is. ( For me, the number of tier1 equal to the number of tier2+tier3)
It takes time, but anyone can do it.
The players have no way to check on visits, even if they wanted to.

And the question is not only whether they did more visits than Inno decided is average, but whether they are doing more visits now. And whether the loss of goods is 'tiny' as stated by the devs or (very) significant.

Look at all the topics on this forum. And go ask people on the map.
There are SEVERAL people saying the number of visits stayed the same.
There are SEVERAL MORE people saying the number of visits dropped
There are NO people saying the number went up.

I normally like your posts, whether I agree with them or not, and I myself sometimes like playing devils advocate, but on this I'm getting a bit tired of you stating you don't like the change, then go on bringing up made-up arguments that have no factual data to support them to defend it. Its rather unlike you, because normally you do have a good basis in data.
On this topic you consistently say there is not enough data available (on which I agree) then start arguing from assumptions.

Both the polls I did on some worlds by asking people AND the poll I posted on the forum support my views/claims. One may argue they aren't representative enough, but at least the data is there.
Neither you nor Inno has provided ANY kind of data to warrant this disastrous change to the CL
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I might not agree with the likelihood of Soggy's arguments, but there's nothing nonsensical about them. The presumptions are as reasonable as any within our lack of information.

On the other hand, Dhurrin is right that nobody should b able to claim with a straight face that these are going to increase neighborly help.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
The assumptions themselves may not be non-sensical, but they are just that: assumptions.
Using those to try and argue facts is in my eyes non-sensical.

Sorry if the phrasing was off...blame it on me getting tired...or english not being may native language...or just me being extremely fed up on this whole issue...or all of them ;)
 
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