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    Your Elvenar Team

!!Don't forget the "v" in PvE!!

DeletedUser627

Guest
"V" for versus, and "E" for environment created by developers. Oops, yes, that does mean the Inno team is actively engaged in creating scenarios for us to overcome. And, perhaps, even scenarios to defeat us.

Given all we've seen in the past year, it no longer makes sense to think of Elvenar as a game where we follow along every possibility laid out by the design team. There are red herrings, needless distractions, and pitfalls already built into the system.

Early Wonders are all three. IMO, building Wonders before Dwarven section is falling for all three. They're pretty little distractions, but ones that prevent players from moving forward in Research and developing powerful cities. And powerful cities are necessary to overcome the obstacles posing as new features that Inno inserts into the game.

The Wonders are released in pairs - one reasonable, one less or un-reasonable. Perhaps the unreasonable one will be a trap - a permanent reminder of wasted KP...but perhaps it will eventually become useful, since Elvenar can change the rules of the game as we go along.

It's rather convenient to make a rule enabling you to defeat players by changing the rules later - they get full marks for that little detail. As Gollum would say, "tricksey developers...gollum gollum".​

Tournaments are a potential pitfall with dire consequences. If a player spends too many resources and units in the tourney, he won't even be able to complete encounters and earn province expansions.

If you're an early to mid-range player (haven't reached Dwarven level yet) and you want one of those big powerful cities you see in the very top ranks...this post is especially for you. We grew our big cities without Wonders! Keep in mind that not all "big" cities are equal, either. Powerful cities - the ones that benefit from Tournaments and build high-level Wonders - these have a huge working and fighting population, producing millions of goods. You can reach this faster than you think, if you choose to beat the devs and go straight through Research!
 
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DeletedUser61

Guest
OR you may prefer to wander about and enjoy the scenery, rather than racing though the Rose Garden.
  • If you're not especially concerned about high scores, there's no need to buy the extra 19 expansions.
  • If you're content to acquire just enough sectors to satisfy the requirements of the Advanced Scouting Chests, you'll be able to win most of your battles with the available troops, using auto-complete once you understand how the battle is developing, and auto-fight when you already know what's going to happen.
  • If you're fighting for the most part, rather than negotiating or catering, you won't need nearly as many Goods, nor the Houses and Workshops that would have been required to support them. A Barracks only needs Supplies, which will leave most of your Coins available for scouting provinces.
  • You'll thereby have plenty of room for Ancient Wonders and the PERMANENT buffs that they provide, without consuming Coins, Supplies, nor Goods. Ancient Wonders make everything ELSE work better.
  • During the early portion of each chapter you may want to plump up your Culture, but if you already have enough Houses and Workshops for the Coins and Supplies that you need, when complemented by daily visits to your neighbors and the members of your Fellowship, then there's no need to have more than 100% culture.
  • A couple of Armories will help you train more troops, which will allow you to take full advantage of the Tournaments. You'll get plenty of Knowledge Points, Relics, and Runes, and you'll need them.
  • Relics are EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. When you have a 700% buff on your boosted Manufacturing Buildings you obviously won't need as many of them. The REALLY important concept is that a buffed building DOES NOT consume more raw materials, rather it simply makes more efficient use of the same raw materials.
  • The Magic Academy ONLY uses UNboosted relics, so you can safely make as many spells as you wish and use them to ease your way.
  • Developing your Ancient Wonders DOES require some planning. Ancient Wonders DO eat a few relics of each sort for most levels, and they chow down on the Knowledge Points that you could be using elsewhere. The BEST time to contribute to your own Ancient Wonders or, even better, swap points with a few other folks for your mutual advantage, is when your Tech Tree is STUCK, and you're waiting for Coins/Supplies/Goods, or when you're waiting for enough Coins and Troops to acquire the sectors that you'll need to get started with the next chapter.
To summarize:
  1. During the initial portion of each chapter, your Knowledge Points, Coins, Supplies, and Goods will be pretty much consumed by your Tech Tree and by upgrading most of your buildings three or four times.
  2. When you're stuck in a bottleneck and/or when you can't go any further until you've (somehow) acquired more sectors, then you should focus on the Relics, Runes, Spells portion of the game, and on the development of your Ancient Wonders.
BoggedDown.jpg

DO NOT get bogged down. You should intentionally ignore the game for a day once in a while, or for an entire weekend. On purpose. The game will still be there when you get back, and you'll find that the game simply works better if you're not constantly drumming your fingers. :mad:

DO NOT melt your credit card. Set a budget and live by it. The game is DESIGNED to be enticing, so decide how much can you AFFORD to spend on your hobby over the next six months, and NEVER purchase Diamonds on the spur of the moment. Replenish your Diamonds just after you pay off your Credit Card each month, because that's when you'll make the best decisions. :p

CreditCard-Trap480.png
 
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DeletedUser1016

Guest
Two completely different ways to play.....and both totally valid!!! Both are really good summaries...
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
Katwijk - if you'd like to start a thread discussing your play methodology - please do. I'm sure we'd all read it with interest.

This thread is about PvE - not about P without any "v" (the way you play). As such, I don't appreciate you hijacking the thread and using it as a bully pulpit.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
using it as a bully pulpit
Gee - and here I thought we were having a discussion, not watching an infomercial.

There are only a bare handful of players who concern themselves with maximizing their scores, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why the developers should tune the game for those few players who are going to "win" anyway, regardless of what hoops they have to jump through.

You're trying to say that it's "PvE" when all the developers are actually doing is optimizing the game for the MAJORITY of the Player base.

It's not a conspiracy!!!

We're BOTH looking at exactly the same river, and exactly the same environment. But you're trying to fight the current, while I'm going with the flow.
 
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DeletedUser627

Guest
And here you go....off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the thread...

Not to mention - you don't have statistical basis for "only a handful of players.." - nor do you know what the majority of the player base wants. Nor do I. But, if it matters, I'm certain I've personally communicated with many more players than you.

This thread is clearly intended for players who do want to develop powerful cities. If they want to do so, they need to strongly consider not building Wonders. I'm not sure why that bothers you so much - it's rather weird. Why do you get so aggravated about it? Why feel this compulsive need to express contempt for other players' preferences? I'm not demeaning your style of playing - I'm not even trying to convince others to change.

I'm pointing out that players who do already want a stronger city need to be aware that the newer additions to the game actually make cities slower and weaker.
It's not conspiratorial to point this out. You're at your best, Katwijk, when you use numbers to make a case, and you don't hesitate to use them. And in this case, when the numbers don't add up to your liking, you instead continuously attack any post / discussion / suggestion relating to city growth.

Lastly, I'd like to make it very clear that my forum posts aren't based on my personal preferences for the game. I've written in favor of some things which I personally don't like. I've written against some things that are personally beneficial to me.
  1. I'm a top player who's vehemently anti-Tourney ranking points - even though I consistently win points whenever I choose to.
  2. I'm very anti-sniping from the development perspective - even though I can snipe Runes whenever I find them (by buying KP with goods)

So, it's absurd for you to IN CAPS suggest that I'm asking the developers to tune the game for me and a few top players. Past absurd, it's insulting and worse, since it's an accusation you already know to be untrue.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
"V" for versus, and "E" for environment created by developers.
If you're only interested in "powerful cities" then you should say so.

hampter.jpg
We're discussing the ENVIRONMENT of the game.
◙ You can try to overwhelm the environment, by building a "powerful city"
◙ You can try to explore all of it's features, by "going with the flow"

For this hamster, the game is far more interesting, and challenging,
when I poke around in ALL of the nooks and crannies.

blinkers-to-laugh-about.png
Past absurd, it's insulting and worse,
since it's an accusation you already know to be untrue.
Take some of your own medicine.
Here's a quote from Beta that's the very definition of conspiracy.
What's the only consequence of replacing inactives with Mines?
Nothing except fewer coins for us.
 
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DeletedUser627

Guest
We're discussing the ENVIRONMENT of the game.
◙ You can try to overwhelm the environment, by building a "powerful city"
◙ You can try to explore all of it's features, by "going with the flow"

The Title of this thread made it clear: here we're discussing the "v" - not the environment. No point in yelling at me as if this were your thread.

And "overwhelm"? Really? Like Elvenar is an environment being overwhelmed by players who want big cities? Your language paints us like environmental contaminators - out of sync with the world, while you are the determined explorers, remaining in tune with your environment. Your semantics don't work. Anyone can play in any manner they choose - and you don't get to criticize and get by with it.

As to my: "What's the only consequence of replacing inactives with Mines?
Nothing except fewer coins for us." - I do have to admit I was incorrect.

There's another consequence: the devaluing of the Crystal Lighthouse. Not only do players lose coins, they lose the goods they're supposed to get from visiting neighbors. My bad - I was too easy on Inno. Of course, I'm sure you think it's just great for them to propose an iffy Wonder like the Lighthouse, and then cut its value months after players have upgraded it to high levels.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
We're actually more alike than a casual reader might assume.
  • You're pushing the envelope in one direction
  • I'm pushing the envelope is a different direction
  • Neither of us are much interested in a game that's trivial
PlanA.jpg
We'll keep the developers honest, huh? I'd even go so far as to suggest that the developer LIKE players who are paying attention, and pushing the limits. That's why shepherds have bellwethers and black sheep in the flock, they're easier to track. I'm pretty sure that we've both caused some head scratching.

There's no reason to assume that the developers have imagined all of the emergent properties of their model.
 

DeletedUser1016

Guest
There's no reason to assume that the developers have imagined all of the emergent properties of their model.

Well, it would be nice if we could - then some of the "negative" discourse might be avoided! I really don't have issue with Inno being "flaky" with their path forward...introducing a feature, then changing it, then reducing it, then eliminating it, etc., etc....I'm not a paying player so no skin off of my teeth [or cash from my wallet]. But I can see if someone is paying - when I pay for something, I do expect to get a scope/contract for the job and to get what I paid for. Inno has been purposefully vague with it's rules and regulations - nothing is published with details and/or explanations! The wiki is purposefully lacking - something like the "purge" is a reality of the way this game has been developed....AND there's nothing about purging & down time, yet they know it is inevitable!

I feels like the developers are flying by the seat of their pants...really!
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
How did you block him? I didn't know that was even possible.
 

DeletedUser2447

Guest
The Title of this thread made it clear: here we're discussing the "v" - not the environment. No point in yelling at me as if this were your thread.

And "overwhelm"? Really? Like Elvenar is an environment being overwhelmed by players who want big cities? Your language paints us like environmental contaminators - out of sync with the world, while you are the determined explorers, remaining in tune with your environment. Your semantics don't work. Anyone can play in any manner they choose - and you don't get to criticize and get by with it.

As to my: "What's the only consequence of replacing inactives with Mines?
Nothing except fewer coins for us." - I do have to admit I was incorrect.

There's another consequence: the devaluing of the Crystal Lighthouse. Not only do players lose coins, they lose the goods they're supposed to get from visiting neighbors. My bad - I was too easy on Inno. Of course, I'm sure you think it's just great for them to propose an iffy Wonder like the Lighthouse, and then cut its value months after players have upgraded it to high levels.
I have noticed that Katwijk seems to go out of her way to be confrontational, I can only presume it to up her score or its a troll thing, I find nothing constructive in her posts, Its jusr insults and bullying, I have used my ignore button, Seems best

How did you block him? I didn't know that was even possible.
Yoy click on the players profile and you will find the ignore button there
 
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DeletedUser1831

Guest
Thank you :) I didn't spend too much time here, but the new changes sort of left me no choice. I figured I needed to add my voice and hope that collectively we can make enough noise to see something happen. I'm one of those players who is stuck in the Dwarves, but already seeing Orc requirements. It sucks.
 
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