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    Your Elvenar Team

Dwarves

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
I bring this up as one who is helping another player [Start Anew on Khelonaar] that started Dwarves before the recent change Update 1.107. As instructed he focused on building his portal up first and then upgrading it to level four, which was done before the game update. With his space limitations, he has room for 25 granite mines and after placing them he started to upgrade them. This is where the game update happened and at first, it just made it much easier to move forward as he was able to upgrade his granite mines faster and with just coin and supplies. Faster, that is until he capped out on granite and was now halted by the tech tree and nowhere to use the granite but the tech tree. Once he got to the copper mines he made 15 and again was going to start upgrading them when I had him stop the upgrade process and just watch the productions and see how fast his granite and copper filled up.

OK so at a minimum the instructions on Elvengems is outdated and a bit dangerous to follow as now you are waiting for the tech tree and you are maxed out on copper and granite. He has reduced to 8 level 3 copper mines and 10 level 4 granite mines and is still maxed out and waiting to earn enough KP to advance on the tree. This is partly a result of the game-changing in the middle of his city, but others may see the same result and I think it needs a fresh look from more experts on here to determine if it is broken now after the change.

Ed
 
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Kekune

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I have a small city that started Dwarves right after this change. It's waaay different than before, and I'll use a much smaller settlement. I scaled back already, and am still not sure I'll use the granite I've made before capping out. It's a different sort of problem, to be sure. :)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Wow, 25 and 15? I did the Dwarf chapter years ago and do not remember ever building close to that many and still got through the chapter in a decent time.
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Sounds about right on granite, but way too much on copper. I did no tech-lock (no PPs) back in the day with about 20-22 mines, but I think only about 7-8 foundries, and those only at L2 IIRC - and that was more than enough copper. Granite was the real bottleneck.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
I just completed Dwarves under the new system with 13 granite mines and 5 copper mines. All the granite upgraded to level 4, stopped the copper at level 3. And that would have been sufficient to keep up with my tech advancement were it not for the Air Traders event. But I won some KPs from chests in the event and there were a couple of quests in the event that require you to buy large amounts of KPs. Those were the only times I had to use PPs to keep up.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
5 of the remaining 11 techs to complete are only needing copper and that equals to 3480 in copper or just over 1 full portal and 10,500 for the remaining that equal 3 full portals. For granite 610,000 is needed and 160,000 is done so only 450,000 left and that equals 2.8 full portals.

As of now, he needs 4 full sets of copper and only 2.8 of granite, so I think he is good at 10/8 for now.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@Ed1960 I don't think 10 granite is going to be enough without using some portal profits. The last advances in Dwarves take a tremendous amount of granite. And 8 still seems like too much copper. Can he delete a few copper foundries, rearrange things and build a few more granite mines? I would say either 12/6 or 13/5 is a better ratio of what he needs.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
He has space to 25/15 as that would normally get you through Dwarves very nicely, adding more is possible but as he is capped right now and his next tech is copper only.

At his current production 96/hr X10 he can refill his portal in 6.9 to 7.2 days and he only need refill it 2.8 times now. So 10 looks good as he has 692 KP left to complete the chapter and only 208 of that will come from province completions. That leaves 484 KP to earn and the minimum time for that is 20+ days.

Edited to complete my thought and correct a typo
 
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Henroo

Well-Known Member
He must be progressing slower in the tech tree than I did. I could not quite keep up on granite with 13 level 4 mines. I do think I would have kept up were it not for air traders. I seem destined to hit the 11 KP reward every time I select the red chest. Had to use a couple of portal profits to keep from getting stuck. I did keep up on copper with 5 foundries. Never came close to filling the portal on either.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
So he is about to hit the really expensive tech advances. He might be ok since he has a full portal stockpile. How aggressive a tournament player is he? That will make a difference since one is about to start. If he is extremely active in tourney play, he'll be getting a fair number of extra KPs every day.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@PaNonymeB My thoughts exactly. I think I was writing a comment about tournament play at the same time you were. An additional factor to consider is how many KPs the player is getting every day from buildings? If he has some evolved buildings, Carting Libraries, a Tome of Secrets, or the Air Traders set it is entirely possible for a player at Dwarves level to be getting 10 or more extra KPs a day from buildings.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
His FS does the tourney and they are 4-6 chests normally and he averages about 750 for his part. Yes, he does have 4 Carting Libraries and a Tome at level 6. So he does collect 6KP more, not a lot in the scheme of things.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
So just an update on the progress he is fully maxed on both granite and copper and needs 34KP to unlock the next tech, that will reduce his copper only by 650 and production waiting to be claimed is 488. This provides on 162 buffer before being maxed again. There is a pattern here that once you reach a certain point the KP for tech will determine your speed through the chapter.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@Evening Star Selene No, do not worry. The changes actually make it easier. Much easier, to be honest. Under the old system it required granite and/or copper to upgrade your granite mines and copper foundries. And the level 4 upgrade to granite mines required so much granite that it really was not worth it unless you did it early in the chapter. If I remember correctly it took well over a week for the increased granite production to make up for the granite you spent doing the upgrade. First time I did Dwarves I kept many of my granite mines at level 3.

Under the new system upgrades to your granite mines or copper foundries only require gold and supplies. They bumped the costs of gold and supplies to make up for removing granite and copper from the cost. But is it still much easier to afford upgrades now.
 

ALLANONN

Active Member
The issue is, do you have enough coin and supplies to do the upgrades and once upgraded how many are really needed? That part of the equation is not totally clear. Elvengems says "You will want to build as many granite mines as you can make space for; 10-15 and even more is not excessive" that may not be accurate and no-one has a clear answer to that. Everyone responding and the OP all were already in Dwarves or are basing it on past experience.

The OP has rightly pointed out that with 10 level 4 Granite the account is and has been maxed out and the same with 8 copper? So yes its a bit of a crapshoot at the moment
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@ALLANONN Not entirely correct. Elvengems wrote that advice back when it still cost granite to upgrade granite mines. You were going to pour a fairly substantial amount of granite into upgrading your granite mines. So it took more mines overall. Because part of your granite production was going to upgrades. That is no longer true. Yes, it does now cost more gold and supplies to upgrade a granite mine. So what? I think most players are already starting to spend excess gold in the wholesaler every day by the time they hit Dwarves. They can now spend that excess gold instead on the increased upgrade cost of granite mines. The more important change is that now 100% of the granite you make in Dwarves goes to either tech advances or to improving the portal (that does still take granite to upgrade).
 

ALLANONN

Active Member
@Henroo, you made my point that the info is outdated, and that you think most players have for coins and supplies is at best a guess. I never used the wholesaler for "excess" gold and never would. My point is that How many Mines or Foundries may not be accurate from the Elvengems site that @Evening Star Selene was looking to for information. The issue is there is a shift in the economy within Dwarves from granite, copper, coins, and supplies and the proper combo isnt clear