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    Your Elvenar Team

Dwarves

ALLANONN

Active Member
I just completed Dwarves under the new system with 13 granite mines and 5 copper mines. All the granite upgraded to level 4, stopped the copper at level 3. And that would have been sufficient to keep up with my tech advancement were it not for the Air Traders event. But I won some KPs from chests in the event and there were a couple of quests in the event that require you to buy large amounts of KPs. Those were the only times I had to use PPs to keep up.
Since the update was released June 25th and you completed Dwarves by July 6th, you didn't start and finish under the new structure so your comments are as the OP's comments only a partial tale of the story. We do need to look at someone going through it fresh to determine the proper balance between the mines and foundries
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
I do not think it is much of a guess to say most players have plenty of coins by the time they reach Dwarves. I am basing that on my own experience in playing 3 cities (2 human, 1 elvish). And also on the comments of literally every experienced player in these forums. I do not think I have once seen an advanced player complain about not having enough gold. But I have seen plenty of comments from them about how they burn off gold every day either in the wholesaler or by buying KPs.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
And I am playing 3 cities. I did 1 entirely under the old rules. I did 1 which started under the old rules and then switched to the new rules midway through. Just finished Dwarves in that one. My newest city is still in Dwarves and did not start it until the rule change took effect. I have done old rules, a combination of old/new, and new. New is easiest and takes less mines. Primarily because you can upgrade the mines to level 4 without having to burn a lot of granite in the process.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
@Henroo So you completed Dwarves in under 10 days ?? really and if you did then how? and How can you use that to provide answers for a Common player? I do not understand
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@Henroo So you completed Dwarves in under 10 days ?? really and if you did then how? and How can you use that to provide answers for a Common player? I do not understand
No. I thought I clearly said that my city that started under the new rules was still in Dwarves. It is progressing nicely, but still has a long ways to go. But that city already has level 4 mines way ahead of my 2 older cities. So even though I have not finished Dwarves in that city, I do think it is safe to draw the conclusion that getting guest race goods is easier under the new rules than the old rules. I've done all 3 of the possible combinations: old rules only, old rules/switch to new rules, and new rules only. And even though I am not done entirely with the new rules only city, I have seen enough to know which way I am casting my vote. The new system is easiest.
 
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Ed1960

Well-Known Member
@Henroo I stand corrected but please when you say " I just completed Dwarves under the new system with 13 granite mines and 5 copper mines" you implied something other than what you stated later. Notwithstanding that the issue is the proper number of mines and foundries to complete the chapter and also what level. I said Elvengems is outdated and others followed my post and indicated the same experience of granite mine and scaling back. I wanted to bring this up as was pointed out the economies have shifted for the chapter and the old rules may not apply.

Using Elvengems guest race guide at this point is not in sync with the new chapter.

Alas, I must correct you about the use of excess coins in-game I have never, ever heard a respected player say to spend them in the wholesaler, its only to buy KP. The wholesaler is a ripoff until well later into the game.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@Henroo I stand corrected but please when you say " I just completed Dwarves under the new system with 13 granite mines and 5 copper mines" you implied something other than what you stated later. Notwithstanding that the issue is the proper number of mines and foundries to complete the chapter and also what level. I said Elvengems is outdated and others followed my post and indicated the same experience of granite mine and scaling back. I wanted to bring this up as was pointed out the economies have shifted for the chapter and the old rules may not apply.

Using Elvengems guest race guide at this point is not in sync with the new chapter.

Alas, I must correct you about the use of excess coins in-game I have never, ever heard a respected player say to spend them in the wholesaler, its only to buy KP. The wholesaler is a ripoff until well later into the game.
Oh, you are talking about an older post in this thread I made. I thought you were referring to the one I made a few hours ago. Sorry for the confusion. That was the city I am talking about in the more recent post that switched rules midway through Dwarves. I did do upgrades to most granite mines from level 3 to level 4 midway through there due to the rule change. There were a few mines I had upgraded early on to level 4 status, but I had stopped that due to the high cost of that upgrade under old rules. And that did help me in finishing the chapter. I still do not feel the level 4 upgrade was worthwhile under the old rules due to the high cost of upgrading the granite mines. And I honestly would have liked to have more than 13 granite mines. Especially since that city started under the old rules when it cost so much granite to upgrade mines. But the way the layout in that city was, 13 was the best I could do without selling something off. But all that being said, 13 granite mines was doing pretty good for me in that city and would have been enough had it not been for the extra knowledge points I kept getting from chests in the Air Traders event. I hit the 11 KP reward in the red chest EVERY time.
 

Evening Star Selene

Active Member
Thanks for your advice guys! @Henroo is right in regards to my playing style, I often have excess coins that I have to use in the wholesaler, because my residences produce so much! I am relieved to hear that it is coins and supplies, because that should be fairly easy for me! As for the rest... well, I guess I'll make an educated guess and see how well I do!
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
@Evening Star Selene One last piece of advice: from what I remember Elvengems says upgrade the portal above all else. And back when it took granite to upgrade both the portal or the mines, this kind of made sense. But now upgrading the portal still takes granite and copper. Upgrading your granite mines or copper foundries now only takes gold/supplies. So I think this tip is now incorrect. Under the new system it is better to upgrade your mines first. Then use their resources to upgrade the portal.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
@Henroo ... I said Elvengems is outdated and others followed my post and indicated the same experience of granite mine and scaling back. I wanted to bring this up as was pointed out the economies have shifted for the chapter and the old rules may not apply.

Using Elvengems guest race guide at this point is not in sync with the new chapter.
...
From the start, I have said this, and the points we should now gather is the information needed to update the guest race guide.
 

Ed1960

Well-Known Member
Posting an update, completed a Tech, and within 48 Hours, the account is maxed again, and still, 12 KP needed to unlock the next tech that is copper only. Then I start on the Dwarven Main Hall and 80KP that will burn 75K and 1K of Granite and Copper, respectively.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
Update. I've got a small city almost through Dwarves, which I started after the changes took effect.

I built 10 granite mines and 4 copper mines. Leveled the granite TOO fast and had to work hard not to cap out early on (but did not). Leveled copper slower, but ended with everything at level 4.

I'm finally about to be techlocked on the last row before the AWs. I've filled them all and unlocked the most expensive one, and now went back for an optional expansion tech I skipped at the end of ch5. I'd skipped a few optional techs to keep myself out of techlock later and have been successful so far. I still haven't taken the optional SS tech in ch6; if I do that, I might avoid techlock altogether. A few of these late techs require copper but no granite, so I wish I had a 5th mine but I'm not gonna build one at this point. If I'd leveled them as fast as I leveled the granite, 4 would probably have been right. Early on, a few more granite mines at lower levels might have been easier on my coin/supply coffers; I went close to broke leveling granite mines too fast.

I've sorta-targeted kp in event chests, have bought some with surplus coins, and have had mostly 1000-1800 pt tourneys in there, so some kp above the daily norm (and all 24 daily accumulation) but I haven't been what I'd call aggressive about getting through the chapter.

So, 10-12 granite and 4-5 copper mines should allow a player who logs in frequently to completely avoid techlock (and occasionally scramble a bit to get enough kp, lol). Players who don't mind a bit of techlock can obviously get by with less, and of course YMMV on anything. :) Just wanted to share my experience.
 

Tawneywild

New Member
I'll be entering the dwarves chapter probably in the next week or so. I've been studying Elvengems' recommendations and planning out what I will do, so now I'm rather worried that everything has changed...
Greetings,

I hope your Dwarves journey has been productive and fun.

I will have the Dwarves Chapter scouted today and then 3 or 4 days to get the portal. How many provinces did you use to set up Dwarves? If you were going to recommend a number for granite and copper mines, what would they be?

Due to the FA, I can easily rearrange the city and decide what to put back, etc. It wasn't planned, just conveniently happened that way.

Thank you for any help you are willing to give.
 

Evening Star Selene

Active Member
Greetings,

I hope your Dwarves journey has been productive and fun.

I will have the Dwarves Chapter scouted today and then 3 or 4 days to get the portal. How many provinces did you use to set up Dwarves? If you were going to recommend a number for granite and copper mines, what would they be?

Due to the FA, I can easily rearrange the city and decide what to put back, etc. It wasn't planned, just conveniently happened that way.

Thank you for any help you are willing to give.
I have kind of dawdled through my dwarves chapter, and am almost at the end, so your experience may differ from mine!

I have 123 provinces explored right now, but need to have 130 done to enter the fairies chapter.

I built 6 granite mines and upgraded them fully. I don't think I needed quite this many, as I experienced an imbalance in having too much granite and not enough copper. That or I needed to increase my amount of copper manufactories. I took my time going through the chapter, and used many of my KP on upgrading AW's. If you don't work on your AW's you may find yourself tech-locked with only 6 mines.

I built 4 copper foundries, and upgraded 3 of them to level 3, one to level 2. (I have been going to the top of the spire on a regular basis, so I don't have a lot of excess supplies and coins like I used to.) I would recommend building a few more foundries, or at least fully upgrading them.

You definitely want to upgrade your portal to the highest level (level 4), because the amounts required to unlock tech at the end of the chapter exceed the storage capacity of a level 3 portal.

Hope this helps a little bit with your planning! Remember, take into consideration how fast you want to go through the chapter, and adjust the numbers accordingly! Good luck!
 

Tawneywild

New Member
I have kind of dawdled through my dwarves chapter, and am almost at the end, so your experience may differ from mine!

I have 123 provinces explored right now, but need to have 130 done to enter the fairies chapter.

I built 6 granite mines and upgraded them fully. I don't think I needed quite this many, as I experienced an imbalance in having too much granite and not enough copper. That or I needed to increase my amount of copper manufactories. I took my time going through the chapter, and used many of my KP on upgrading AW's. If you don't work on your AW's you may find yourself tech-locked with only 6 mines.

I built 4 copper foundries, and upgraded 3 of them to level 3, one to level 2. (I have been going to the top of the spire on a regular basis, so I don't have a lot of excess supplies and coins like I used to.) I would recommend building a few more foundries, or at least fully upgrading them.

You definitely want to upgrade your portal to the highest level (level 4), because the amounts required to unlock tech at the end of the chapter exceed the storage capacity of a level 3 portal.

Hope this helps a little bit with your planning! Remember, take into consideration how fast you want to go through the chapter, and adjust the numbers accordingly! Good luck!
Awesome! Thank you!

I am in no hurry as I was sort of excited about getting some KP to use on AW's, but then I read about how it changed so is now much faster. Right now I only have Endless Excavation and Golden Abyss - I need to read up on others as well.

I appreciate you taking the time to give me some tips!