Dynamic Trading

[Deleted User - 1178646]

The Idea is that you place X goods on the market, buyers of this good can either select the entire trade or part of the trades.

Example: I place 5.000.000 scrolls on the market for 3.333.333 gems. (2 star trade with trade ratio 1.5)
The first player needs only 5000 scrolls and pick up 5000 scrolls for 3333 gems, the second player wants 1.000.000 scrolls and picks it up for 666.666 gems the last player wants all thats left and picks that from the market.

This idea is a part of the market imbalance suggestions

Why should it be implemented?:
The current trader is a mess, it's overly crowded, trades you find are either too big or too small and it's cumbersome and slow to put trades on the market.
This idea is suggested to make it easier to place trades on the market, as long as I played this game there is a lack of passive trades on the market. and when they are on the market they are often unatainable for smaller players. there is rarely the right trade on the market for the right person. this would make all trades the correct trade for the correct person.
By making it easier to place goods on the market, the market should have more goods aviable for trades, elvenar is the first game I ever played with a chronic lack of passive trades. all games I played before had more trades on the market than people needed.

Advantages:

• Easier to place goods on the market,
• Always a trade on the market that works for both big and small/new players. especially new players are often felt left out and can't find the small trade they need.
• No more trade spamm on the market with 10-20 or more of the same trades posted, it will be a lot cleaner.

Disadvantages:

• A lot of dev work, but after 6 years the market deserves an overhaul to be a proper market. it's really hacked together right now. it looks very amateuristic compared to other games.
• Trading odds might create some rounding oddities that create 3* trade when the trade gets small. (always round down/up in favour of the seller)

 

[BrinDarby]

I'm only on board if the whole Trade system is overhauled.....
I'm not sure tho I like having splitable offers, sounds like you
want to just stick 1 uber offer up and be lazy .... maybe not tho.

Small cities biggest problem is the inverse Trader fee, that should be #1 fixed.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

The trader fee is only there for a very short while, it should not exist, but to be fair it quickly disappears as well as you can only trade with a very limited amount of close neighbours.

It's about a clean market for everyone.
Lets not call it lazy but impracticle to work with.

Imagine this, last week I traded about 15 million goods to balance my stock.
That are:

• 3000 trades at 5K
• 600 trades at 25K
• 150 trades at 100K
• 30 trades at 500K
• 15 trades at 1M

You can easily see how impractical it is to make my trades in such a way they are affordable for all players.
I am not a chapter 4 player, and I work with massive numbers as I make more than 1,5M standard goods per day. and about 500-700K sentient.

So the only way for me to make it work is to place trades on the market of 500K or larger as the others are just impractical, it's not lazy.
But those trades are only ment for a select few of my nieghbours, for others those numbers are way to large and they are left out, they might not be able to find there 100K of kristal they need while there is 4m kristal on the market in 8 trades of 500K

why does a player need being unable to find the goods he/she needs on the market while there is 4M+ right there? but he/she can't buy it because the numbers are too big?

When I sometimes clear the market I am removing 100+ trades from 5 players, thats just one big mess, Why should I need to accept 15 times 5000 bismut from droopy_the_mystic, why does he/she has to place 15 times the same trade on the market?

Why does each player need to spamm 8 pages of trades on the market if they can do it in 3 lines instead of 8 pages? why does the market has to be the mess it is?

 

[BrinDarby]

Why does each player need to spamm 8 pages of trades on the market if they can do it in 3 lines instead of 8 pages? why does the market has to be the mess it is?

Its because you are in the top 1% of players it seems, or are so far up
that most ppl don't trade that much .... I am pretty sure Inno has better
use of thier time to solve issues for 1% of the active playerbase..... But

I do see value in both keeping long time players happy along with
new players, so even the 1%ers deserve Inno's ear, but it can't be
at the expense of the other 99% ...

Yes I read your suggestion , and No it would allow smaller players
to accept part of your offers, but it also puts up super huge blocks
of goods basically undercutting players like me that normally get
left alone by players like you, because it really is peanuts to you....
Your suggestions changes that by allowing you to put up 1m offers
@ 1:1 and freeze me outta the market even @ just a 10% bump...

Usually in buisness, the more ya buy, the better the price ....
Yes I know you feel this isn't a Econ game, but Econ is a big part of
it anyway, and you are allowing super whales the ability to dominate
in another way, the other 99% or whatever the real % is..... can't be more
than 5%.....

if I'm selling Marble for Steel , and there's (20) offers @ 1000 @ 1:1
thats kewl cause when those go away my 1000:1200 offers will sell,
but if you put up (1) 1m offer , thats in effect putting up (1000) offers
not just (20) of them ..... see what I mean ???? The odds of me ever
selling anything is pointless @ that point .....

If you wanna run me outta the trader, then you better have to put
more effort into it, than just listing 1 darn offer ......

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Its because you are in the top 1% of players it seems, or are so far up
that most ppl don't trade that much .... I am pretty sure Inno has better
use of thier time to solve issues for 1% of the active playerbase..... But

I do see value in both keeping long time players happy along with
new players, so even the 1%ers deserve Inno's ear, but it can't be
at the expense of the other 99% ...

Yes I read your suggestion , and No it would allow smaller players
to accept part of your offers, but it also puts up super huge blocks
of goods basically undercutting players like me that normally get
left alone by players like you, because it really is peanuts to you....
Your suggestions changes that by allowing you to put up 1m offers
@ 1:1 and freeze me outta the market even @ just a 10% bump...

Usually in buisness, the more ya buy, the better the price ....
Yes I know you feel this isn't a Econ game, but Econ is a big part of
it anyway, and you are allowing super whales the ability to dominate
in another way, the other 99% or whatever the real % is..... can't be more
than 5%.....

if I'm selling Marble for Steel , and there's (20) offers @ 1000 @ 1:1
thats kewl cause when those go away my 1000:1200 offers will sell,
but if you put up (1) 1m offer , thats in effect putting up (1000) offers
not just (20) of them ..... see what I mean ???? The odds of me ever
selling anything is pointless @ that point .....

If you wanna run me outta the trader, then you better have to put
more effort into it, than just listing 1 darn offer ......

An extreme example shows how stupid the system is.
It's not a 1% issue, it's an everyones issue. it's just that my example shows how stupid it is.

I mean this issue we also had when the game had only 5-6 chapters, we ran in the same issue with smaller numbers.
At chapter 5 we could not get the numbers low enough for new players in chapter 1-2.

With 18-19 chapters the difference between the high level players and low level players and anything in between has only widened.
Hell I am not even T1% anymore since I am still stuck at the start of chapter 17.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

The trader fee is only there for a very short while, it should not exist, but to be fair it quickly disappears as well as you can only trade with a very limited amount of close neighbours.

No, the Trader fee stays around for a long time, if you do reasonable scouting and do not get way over-scouted. By Beta city is in chapter 14 and I still have undiscovered neighbors whose trades have the fee. I don't remember the exact number, but you need to discover somewhere between 200 and 250 neighbors before trades with fees stop showing up.

So even with too much scouting, any city not yet in chapter 8 will never stop seeing trader fees on some trades, unless they are burning a lot of diamonds in place of the orcs they cannot make.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Should be reasonably simple to implement a 10%, 25%, 100% button instead of an "accept" button.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Your suggestions changes that by allowing you to put up 1m offers
@ 1:1 and freeze me outta the market even @ just a 10% bump...

Yeah, but there's no need to make a profit in this game, it runs quite smoothly at 1:1
So rather than cater to the 1% of players who identify as "econ players" this suggestion helps out all big players by reducing the tedium of making 60 various size offers and also brings normal small players into the market more by offering up trades that they can actually use.

 

[Henroo]

I'm newer to the game than CrazyWizard. Currently working chapter 15. And I try to help the newer players in my trade radius by taking their trades. After all, when I was new to the game big neighbor cities took my trades and helped me out. I consider this a "pay it back" kind of deal. However, from my perspective I wish my new player neighbors would post larger amounts. For example, a new player might post ten 100 value trades. And I think that from their perspective, they think they have a better chance of getting trades accepted by putting up many small trades. But from my perspective, it does not matter at all. In fact, I wish they would post a single 1000 value trade instead of ten 100 value trades. I will still take it, it just requires 9 less clicks for me. The amount of goods involved is fairly insignificant to me: I am doing this to try to help the neighbors placing the trades. But if there could be a system where I could help out a small neighbor by taking all their trades with a single click instead of having to click 20 or 30 times, I would be all for that!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Yeah, but there's no need to make a profit in this game, it runs quite smoothly at 1:1

I think Inno made a big mistake when they adjusted the trade ratios, that they decided to leave the range of difference between trade goods the same. Being able to still place an 18:1 or 1:18 trade is ridiculous. If the 2-star ratio is 1:1.5:2.25, then they should have greatly reduced the max trade difference too, maybe down to double/half a 2-star, so 1:3:4.5 and maybe get rid of 0-star completely. That would not eliminate all the horrible trades, but it would eliminate a lot.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

No, the Trader fee stays around for a long time, if you do reasonable scouting and do not get way over-scouted. By Beta city is in chapter 14 and I still have undiscovered neighbors whose trades have the fee. I don't remember the exact number, but you need to discover somewhere between 200 and 250 neighbors before trades with fees stop showing up.

So even with too much scouting, any city not yet in chapter 8 will never stop seeing trader fees on some trades, unless they are burning a lot of diamonds in place of the orcs they cannot make.

Sorry I looked at this from a BTG perspective, by the tike you can place this wonder in game (start chapter 8) that power is already pointless.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Sorry I looked at this from a BTG perspective, by the tike you can place this wonder in game (start chapter 8) that power is already pointless.

Not if the goods you need keep only showing up from undiscovered neighbors.

 

[ajqtrz]

Here's why I like this idea.

1) Flexibility. Because if you can cater the size of a trade to your needs you don't have to wait for a trade that meets those needs to show up.
2) Speed. I've put up fifteen to twenty identical trades at once because most of my fs/neighbors can't take a million+ trade. So I put up 100,000 at a time, and even that sometimes could be broken down (but if I did that I'd have 10 10k trades and a maximum post of 600k. I sometimes put a couple million in total trades up, so that's not going to work).
3) Small players could get what they want and the rest of us wouldn't have to bother being generous -- not that that's wrong -- but even with our generosity, they still have to wait.
4) No waiting for the most part. If you see a post for more than you want you take what you want and leave the rest. Not bad.

Now all of this is, to be honest, closer to how real markets work. Most of the time their are "lots" and "breaking" the lot can be done for a small fee. Maybe that, too, could be done -- a .05% fee? (that's 1/2 of a steel for 100 steel out of a lot)/

So, yes, a good idea that mirrors the real world a bit more and gives more options to all of us.

AJ

 

[Talaedraiia]

I would vote for this as I think it is a great idea.