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Elementals

Arkadia

Arkadia

Well-Known Member
Watched the video on Elementals, and at 2:17 Timon explains sentient goods.

It seems like we'll be able to produce sentient goods of our own boost, +1. Is that correct?

Also..... i see on the tech tree we upgrade the factories right after scouts.... no residence upgrade to get pop :/
guess there's no way around selling a buncha buildings is there lol
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Ashrem said:
Having the tech doesn't necessarily mean you have to do the upgrades right away.
Click to expand...

But you do. Sentient goods are needed for nearly all researches beyond the point where you unlock them, including the residence upgrades. I don't know how trading for them works, but I do know you have to upgrade your trader first and if you require sentient goods to trade for sentient goods, then you definitely do need to upgrade your manufactories and start producing before you can upgrade anything else in your city to Elemental levels.
 
Arkadia

Arkadia

Well-Known Member
yup....we do need to upgrade them :/
but if we are able to produce 2 types of sentient goods, that makes it easier. I thought we could only produce them in the +1
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Arkadia said:
yup....we do need to upgrade them :/
but if we are able to produce 2 types of sentient goods, that makes it easier. I thought we could only produce them in the +1
Click to expand...

Nah, you can produce sentient goods in any level 24+ marble, steel, and planks manufactory. But just like the other 3 levels of goods, you're only going to be boosted in one of the three. I imagine you're better off sticking to just producing your boosted goods, but you can still upgrade your t1 boost to 24+ in order to get more production for those goods.
 
Ashrem

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
yeah, a level 24 unboosted factory would be terrible. Especially considering you'd ahve to do it again with T2>T5 for the next chapter.....
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
Ashrem said:
yeah, a level 24 unboosted factory would be terrible. Especially considering you'd ahve to do it again with T2>T5 for the next chapter.....
Click to expand...
I'm interested to see how much you need how fast vs kp accumulation and guest race productions etc.
If a person already had 7 T1 and didn't mind sacrificing the longer time options so were going to upgrade them anyway...
I wonder how often you would have to do a T4 run on all 7 factories to keep up with demand.
Obviously that's inefficient as you could make the same with 1 T4 boost... but if it times so that the T4 production is only needed occasionally (like 3hrs a day or less) and you already had 7 leveled T1 boost that it wouldn't be worth wasting the space for a T4 vs sacrificing a 3hr production on all T1 here and there?
I of course have no idea how the math works out on that.

Edit: It would definitely still cost a lot more seeds which I gather you already need a bazillion of... but you also need like 9 bazillion mana... not sure if there isn't an argument for making non-boost T4 while waiting on everything else anyway rather than build T4 just to have way to much T4 for the speed you can progress. o_O
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Lord Draconian said:
Edit: It would definitely still cost a lot more seeds which I gather you already need a bazillion of... but you also need like 9 bazillion mana... not sure if there isn't an argument for making non-boost T4 while waiting on everything else anyway rather than build T4 just to have way to much T4 for the speed you can progress.
Click to expand...

The seed cost is actually fairly significant. Most players will not be able to continually run more than two T4 factories, boosted or not. Even with my Trader producing about 5000 seeds every 3 hours (production+bonus), that's only enough to run three and I actually have a lot of total AW levels compared to many players. I wouldn't waste seeds producing non-boosted T4 goods; that's what the upgraded trader is for. Trade your excess with other players for what you need.

Here's something I'm wondering though, now that I mentioned it. Sentient goods decay like seeds and mana, but they turn back into T1 goods rather than disappear completely. What happens if you put your entire inventory of sentient goods into a trade? Do they still decay or is that a loophole that allows you to cheat the decay rate and effectively never lose sentient goods?
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
qaccy said:
I wouldn't waste seeds producing non-boosted T4 goods; that's what the upgraded trader is for. Trade your excess with other players for what you need.
Click to expand...
I get that is the intention but I'm wondering how it measures up to other demands, say I'm going to be waiting on guest race or mana quite a bit so there is no reason to be making T4 just to have it decay, does it decay into an equal boost T1 like I had been making boost T1? (EDIT: I already know there is actually a significant loss but can't recall what the % was), is it better to be running non-boost T1 in it while not running T4? How often would I be doing this? If it's more than 7:1 I could just run a non-boost T4 in 7 T1 boost factories and end up in the same place minus the seeds... would this cause a seed shortage or would I be waiting on mana anyway?

Note: I don't expect answers to this because there are many variables but these are question I intend to answer for myself. I am blindly building a T4 now, but if I find I'm not using it half the time I may wish I had not. I never use 1d/2d so all my T1 boost is getting leveled up anyway... The question of how often I will be making T1 non-boost just to not have a sleeping T4 factory vs just making T4 non-boost every few days is my main curiosity.
 
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Arkadia

Arkadia

Well-Known Member
Lord Draconian said:
I'm interested to see how much you need how fast vs kp accumulation and guest race productions etc.
If a person already had 7 T1 and didn't mind sacrificing the longer time options so were going to upgrade them anyway...
I wonder how often you would have to do a T4 run on all 7 factories to keep up with demand.
...
Edit: It would definitely still cost a lot more seeds which I gather you already need a bazillion of... but you also need like 9 bazillion mana... not sure if there isn't an argument for making non-boost T4 while waiting on everything else anyway rather than build T4 just to have way to much T4 for the speed you can progress. o_O
Click to expand...

Check the video linked on top...at 2:17 it shows the factories u can compare.

As for inefficient production, it all depends on how much space u can afford to build T4s

I am more worried about having enough seeds to feed them. As for mana, we have different ways to produce them, including the AWs, but i also read we won't have the divine seed boost on early collection anymore, which sux :/


qaccy said:
Trader producing about 5000 seeds every 3 hours (production+bonus), that's only enough to run three
Click to expand...

Is that in beta or u just made an estimate? My understanding is (from the gems site) that the upgraded Trader won't give bonus on early collection.
 
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DeletedUser5800

Guest
Arkadia said:
so from the video, the sample account produced 350 non-boosted and 1950 boosted sentient goods in 3 hrs for the same amount of goods & seeds
Click to expand...
Yeah I know how boost works, and that doing non-boost is going to take 7x the seeds, what I was asking was a hypothetical I won't have the answer to until after I do it that pits seed production against mana production/everything else needed to progress.
If I can collect 7x too many seeds compared to the astronomical amount of mana needed for example, then there would be no point in making T4 boost around the clock just so it can decay nor would it be a very good use of space to be making T1 non-boost.
So that if it happens that I have to wait on mana for so long that I have the seeds to waste and I'm going to have 7 non-boost T4 factories setting there because they are T1 boost anyway, then it would make more sense to do the inefficient thing that doesn't take extra space vs the inefficient thing that does.
It really hinges on mana output vs seed output vs minimum required T4 to progress which would be variable to each city, but there is theoretically a line somewhere that would make non-boost the better choice of inefficient things to do, though that line may be at a build that takes a year to make the mana but has 200 AW levels or something insanely strange like that.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Just to clear things up, the upgraded (level 3) trader still has the early collection bonus for seeds. The images on the aforementioned website even display a level 3 trader with both the 24-hour normal production and the 3-hour bonus collection. Seed production is not getting nerfed in Elementals when you upgrade your trader, don't worry about that. Unless the image is fake or old and the trader's been changed since then.

Anyway, @Lord Draconian I'd stick to just producing your boost. You can trade the excess you don't need, and if you're really worried about 'wasting' the goods then simply have one T4 manufactory. Seed production is limited almost exclusively to the trader and is also required for tech in addition to the needed productions, so you don't really want to go wasting it on very inefficient productions that are ultimately going to decay before you're able to use them anyway. You'll end up running into multiple instances of having the KP requirement met, but being short on not only sentient goods but seeds as well. Not a great situation to be in, if you ask me.

Besides, you're still going to need T1 goods so that's another reason to not tie up your T1 boost with unboosted T4 productions.
 
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