Elvarian Carnival event discussion thread

[SoggyShorts]

My math isn't nearly as flash as yours but it works for me.

I'll take a shot
TL;DR:
The Sleigh has a total value of 27.3 tiles in your city PLUS 3 KP per day
That's 152% efficiency in your city. If it were me, I'd give it a big fat "yes"

Note: this doesn't count the coin production of the sleigh which at 97k per day is more than a residence can make.

Spoiler: The Math

Your L15 residences give 560 pop in 13.5 squares = 41.5 pop per square
Your winter shrines give you 480 culture in 4 squares = 120 per square

Your L15 steel requires 939 pop = 22.6 tiles of pop
Your L15 steel requires 201 culture = 1.7 sq of culture
Your L15 steel has a footprint of 42.3 squares (16+2 roads+22.6 for pop+ 1.7 culture)
Running at 5hx3 +9hx1 with max relics but no MM your steel makes 8,000 per day or 189 per tile per day

Your L15 scroll requires 1085 pop = 26.1 tiles of pop
Your L15 scroll requires 190 culture = 1.6 sq of culture
Your L15 scroll has a footprint of 41.2 squares (12+1.5 roads+26.1 for pop+1.6 sq of culture)
Running at 5hx3 +9hx1 with max relics but no MM your scroll makes 6,000 per day or 146 per tile per day

The Sleigh makes
1.6K steel per day, a rough value of 8.5 steel factory tiles
1.5 silk per day, a rough value of 10.3 scroll factory tiles
208 pop a value of 5 tiles
416 culture a value of 3.5 tiles

 

[SoggyShorts]

Note: I still agree with your overall point that a fully evolved carnival event bldg doesn't provide as much per square of any of the rewards as regular bldgs do, even with it needing a tweak to the goods production number.

To be clear, for the 3 chapters that I've checked (5,12, and 16) the Sleigh is more efficient than its regular counterparts when considering all parts.
If your planker is making less than @TalimSwift's is then the Sleigh only becomes even better by comparison.

The only reason not to place a Sleigh (in the chapters I have tested) is score. Like all event buildings the EB sleigh gives zero points and therefore does not improve your rank. This is the core reason why I feel the whole ranking system is utterly broken in Elvenar, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Kekune]

The only reason not to place a Sleigh (in the chapters I have tested) is score.

I dunno...I think you could argue for simplicity, too. If your city is full, what are you going to remove to place it that won't throw off the balance? It can't replace a single factory... it can't really replace a single anything. It does take a bit more effort to figure out how to adjust/change your city to include these hybrid buildings, and how to balance your city with them over time. For some folks, it's just easier to determine how to tackle surplus or shortage when you rely on basic buildings where you can tweak each component separately. So it isn't a bad prize... but it can be challenging to actually make use of such a thing.

 

[SoggyShorts]

.I think you could argue for simplicity, too. If your city is full, what are you going to remove to place it that won't throw off the balance? It can't replace a single factory... it can't really replace a single anything.

I've thought a lot about this and in the long run, I don't believe it's really an issue.
Event buildings are the most efficient per square (other than wonders), and events are nearly constant these days.

It's true that you can't simply sell a planks factory and put a sleigh in the same spot in your city to get the exact same but better results in each category.
However, assuming that your city is ever-evolving(pun intended), if you simply continue placing the best buildings in your city you should end up with a better city.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Yea, I'm having a tough time deciding the best building.

Dawn of spring shrine
A halfing Carriage
Or the elven float

Halfing is basically a 2x butcher
Elven float is basically a butcher with population
Dawn of spring is the smallest and weakest one but takes up smallest amount of space.

If I'm planning to go 8 t1, 4 t2 goods for a while(till chapter 5 roughly) which do you guys think would be the best take here? I'm also a daily player if that helps in any decision.

avoid pop culture buildings as the plague in that stage of the game.
The isssue is that it's very hard to replace pop/culture buildings with not pop culture buildings as when you remove them both are affected. as you remove one but need to rebuild it with 2 buildings to compensate.
this could keep you "hostage" in a cycle where you need another event to fix your town (or rebuild your town completely)

It's much safer to take advantage of the best culture only buildings you can find, there pretty decent and usually last a few chapters, if your game catches up with your culture buildings there easily replaces with regular non event culture buildings.

this will keep your game more fun to play.
Thats my advise.

 

[Darielle]

As a early chapter 2 city, should I push this event as much as I can?

What buildings are worth going for?

Or should I just aim to get instants to help myself grow quicker, and skip?

I don't like to contradict CW, but I'd go for the population culture combos. I did even when my cities were new, and it always seemed to work out for me. This time (although I'm not new anymore) I got five of the Elven float, so I was happy that I was able to get rid of five residences and get 4500 more population than I had before ... and the residences were the exact same size, (3x5) so that was perfect.

 

[Darielle]

HI. I'm a new player (a month anyway)... I'm having a problem understanding something about this carnival and my FS keeps answering in ways that aren't answering what I want. Don't want to bother them with this further...

If the "daily" quests for the carnival are daily, and I have 7 points of 74 on the bar... and all 7 of my points are from the "normal" carnival quests (i checked the elvengems list), what happened to my "daily" I either did, or, it never showed up?

I don't see a "daily" quest on the left side and if i did it without noticing, there is no point on the bar of 74 for it.... only points for the 7 normal carnival quests i did.

Hope this is clearly written. I find nothing on elvengems explaining this. Maybe i'm more lost on what's going on than i thought haha. Thanks.

To make it easy to understand, let's give a hypothetical example:

There are 52 quests in the first round, (the quests that are not dailies.) There are 22 quests in the second round (the "dailies" since there are 22 days to the event). You only get one per day of the dailies (after you have completed the first round quests), but you can do all the ones up till the day of the event that you are in.

So let's say that you get all the 52 first-round quests done in 10 days. Then you are presented with the daily quests. Since you've taken 10 days to do the first round, you can do as many of the first daily quests as you can, without waiting. If you do the first round of 52 in 10 days and then take 5 days to catch up on the daily quests, it means that you would have done 15 of the daily quests (since you are on day 15 of the event). From then on, you will only get one quest per day, ie, you'll get the 16th daily quest on the 16th day, the 17th daily quest on the 17th day, etc. I hope I'm clarifying it.

 

[samidodamage]

avoid pop culture buildings as the plague

Go for the population culture combos.

I would have agreed with Darielle before I hit Woodelves (Ch9) in my first city. There, I loaded up on pop/culture bldgs early on and they were great...I had way fewer houses and almost no pure culture bldgs. Then, WE...I had to have culture bldgs that needed a road and produced mana (that decayed, so I needed to produce a lot of it!) and I had to have the space from those buildings for the mana bldgs. It took me much longer than necessary to replace those buildings since I had to build/upgrade more houses as I lost the pop from those bldgs. Thankfully, the Willows gave good culture, so I didn't have to replace the culture lost from those bldgs. Granted, that was a short spot in the game, as once Ch10 is finished, the Dragon Abbey AW provides mana-on-demand. The huge jump in pop provided by houses in S&D also meant that I could reduce the number of houses again. So, by Halflings (Ch11) I was back to being able to make use of the pop culture bldgs. Still, it was annoying to build houses, upgrade to chapter lvl, then turn around and demolish them. After I got Dragon Abbey built and upgraded a bit, I began using the pop/culture bldgs more liberally and replacing houses with them.
My advice would be between these two quoted comments: use the pop/culture bldgs, but do so conservatively until you are well into Ch9 and comfortable with mana production. I did this in my 2nd city and was way happier/less frustrated than when I hit those chapters in the first city.

 

[Darielle]

To be clear, for the 3 chapters that I've checked (5,12, and 16) the Sleigh is more efficient than its regular counterparts when considering all parts.
If your planker is making less than @TalimSwift's is then the Sleigh only becomes even better by comparison.

The only reason not to place a Sleigh (in the chapters I have tested) is score. Like all event buildings the EB sleigh gives zero points and therefore does not improve your rank. This is the core reason why I feel the whole ranking system is utterly broken in Elvenar, but that's a topic for another thread.

Yeah, for five elven floats at 3x5, I get 3100 pop each plus a good amount of culture. I can get rid of 5 residences that give 2200 pop each, each also 3x5. The only thing I lose is rank (and coins which I don't need) and unfortunately, my fellowship also loses overall rank when I go down. That doesn't bother me for my sake but it does bother me for the fellowship, since we are at #18 and trying hard to raise our ranking. But for myself personally, pfffft.

 

[Kekune]

Event buildings are the most efficient per square (other than wonders), and events are nearly constant these days.

Yeah... but each evolving building has been unique. You can't just replace it during the next event and keep on trucking. Either you upgrade it (and most people couldn't upgrade all their evolvers) or you have to adapt.

This is the dynamic I mean, but further complicated by NOT having an equal replacement offered.

The isssue is that it's very hard to replace pop/culture buildings with not pop culture buildings as when you remove them both are affected. as you remove one but need to rebuild it with 2 buildings to compensate.
this could keep you "hostage" in a cycle where you need another event to fix your town (or rebuild your town completely)

We all know CrazyWizard knows how to play the game... but he still finds this to be a barrier. For folks who are newer, or less analytical in their approach, I think it can be a really big barrier.

I'm not arguing its value; really just saying that score isn't the only reason someone might pass this up.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Yeah... but each evolving building has been unique. You can't just replace it during the next event and keep on trucking. Either you upgrade it (and most people couldn't upgrade all their evolvers) or you have to adapt.

This is the dynamic I mean, but further complicated by NOT having an equal replacement offered.

We all know CrazyWizard knows how to play the game... but he still finds this to be a barrier. For folks who are newer, or less analytical in their approach, I think it can be a really big barrier.

I'm not arguing its value; really just saying that score isn't the only reason someone might pass this up.

I can deal with it, but I know many who had a hard time.
Remember when "old event buildings" got a rebalance and now "my game is killed, I now heb negative pop and...".
For many the fact that they had to revamp there town to make it work was a huge burden, and a very negative experience.

I am ok with a revamp, I see what my problem is and adjust, but I can't ignore the experience of many others.
Using them moderately is the best, but how to draw a barrier between moderate and too much to an unexperience new player?
The best advice would be to avoid them untill the understand the game, it's advantages and it's drawbacks.
So my advice stays for new players, avoid them as the plague

@Darielle its totally fine to disagree if it works for you thats great, but I like to have players avoid a pitfall that might make them decide to quit. it can work, but it can also be a can also be a reason to quit the game. I do not like that last option.

@samidodamage great example of the mana chapters. as you indicated it's a moment you need to change culture for mana culture. you have no other option.
The issue is when change into mana culture you also loose a lot of workers, now this has to be compensated with more houses and it's indeed not the most enjoyable experience to be struggling with it.
I am also not a fan anymore of removing homes for pop/culture with the spire, this player in the future might like it, he might choose the game of the mini game or fighting.
But the mini game needs a lot of coins, replacing houses with pop/culture buildings limits your coin production, this means the player no longer has a choice between de mini game and fighting unless.... he rebuilds his town to no longer be reliable on pop/culture buildings.

pop/culture building were awesome in an era long forgone, when there was no spire, tournaments never asked for coins after chapter 4/5 and when free diamonds were non existent.
a few well placed "free earned"(or paid for) premium resisdences with pure culture do just as good as a job as pop/culture buildings without having any of it's drawbacks and it even makes coins.

 

[samidodamage]

I am also not a fan anymore of removing homes for pop/culture with the spire,

I had not thought of that, but it is definitely a consideration. I'm 100% combat in the Spire, so sometimes I forget to figure in the costs of diplomacy.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I had not thought of that, but it is definitely a consideration. I'm 100% combat in the Spire, so sometimes I forget to figure in the costs of diplomacy.

yes and the tournaments also ask for coins now past chapter 4/5, had to pay 25m coins for a single fight this week

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am also not a fan anymore of removing homes for pop/culture with the spire...

Chapter 17 and the need for working population and working culture as a factor in your Unurium production is also something that says no to getting rid of all your residences.

 

[SoggyShorts]

We all know CrazyWizard knows how to play the game... but he still finds this to be a barrier.

pop/culture building were awesome in an era long forgone, when there was no spire, tournaments never asked for coins after chapter 4/5 and when free diamonds were non existent.

Well on one side the best pop/culture buildings in all of Elvenar's history* were handed out 20 at a time just 2 months ago, and on the other coins only matter if you cater.

Yeah... but each evolving building has been unique. You can't just replace it during the next event and keep on trucking. Either you upgrade it (and most people couldn't upgrade all their evolvers) or you have to adapt.

I don't think anyone produces exactly what they need so when you chapter up you don't really need a 1:1 replacement, do you?
I see no compelling reason not to grab a building if it's 150% as efficient as its component parts. It's not like you're replacing ALL of your factories with Evos, we're talking about maybe a handful of buildings per year.

Using myself as an example my entire city is made up of event buildings and it's never caused me any issues with replacement or production- I've always managed to replace before I outgrew and that was with a desire to never be techlocked** and before the invention or RR spells.

*A couple of buildings that never offered multiples had slightly better pop/sq back in '16
**With the new tournament formula I'm perma-techlocked so I'm filling my 25 guest race expansions with factories ATM.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Well on one side the best pop/culture buildings in all of Elvenar's history* were handed out 20 at a time just 2 months ago, and on the other coins only matter if you cater.

I don't think anyone produces exactly what they need so when you chapter up you don't really need a 1:1 replacement, do you?
I see no compelling reason not to grab a building if it's 150% as efficient as its component parts. It's not like you're replacing ALL of your factories with Evos, we're talking about maybe a handful of buildings per year.

Using myself as an example my entire city is made up of event buildings and it's never caused me any issues with replacement or production- I've always managed to replace before I outgrew and that was with a desire to never be techlocked** and before the invention or RR spells.

*A couple of buildings that never offered multiples had slightly better pop/sq back in '16
**With the new tournament formula I'm perma-techlocked so I'm filling my 25 guest race expansions with factories ATM.

Which building are you referring to?

The best in my opinion are some of the ancient main prizes or near unobtanium.

• Gravity inn (unobtanium for regular players with the best pop/culture in game)
• Monkey palace (some diamond pop culture form the unurs chapter)
• Tower of the winter king (second best event pop /culture in game bested by the diamond option)ancient main prize you could not get without money, 2nd FA winners prize.)
• Castle snowflake (third best event pop / culture in gamepart of the tower of the winter king main prize set)
• Goblin Gift Shop & Winter star (both give great pop, but severly lack cuture)
• Venars III (venars III is an old main prize that returned as a daily in the past, great balanced pop culture building,
• Ice hag (great pop better than venars, less cuture but still respectable good amount

To me the gift shop and winter star are only "good" if you have "too much culture" but because it's a "depends on" building I do not find them the best ever. it also depends on the route you take there are awesome pop and awesome massive culture / population sinks now in this game with the new T3 factories in chapter 17 and the armories from chapter 15? onwards. like supper massive sinks.

I personally like armories so a pop centric building does not have my preferences, also magic residences are "better than" those buildings in pop/sq if pop has the main focus.

As for a pure event building town, it's an awesome challenge and definitely possible, but would you advise any new player to follow in you path?
There is a clear difference between "possible" and "advisable"

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

The isssue is that it's very hard to replace pop/culture buildings with not pop culture buildings as when you remove them both are affected. as you remove one but need to rebuild it with 2 buildings to compensate.
this could keep you "hostage" in a cycle where you need another event to fix your town (or rebuild your town completely)

Really depends on how active you're in events. At that stage of the game active players have to rebuild their towns all the time simply due to chapter progress anyway, and it is not hard to get new hybrids in new events. Unless you can go all magic residences, best event hybrids are so much better than regular residences + regular culture. And keeping up with upgrading multiple magic residences while actively progressing through the chapters is an expensive proposition. I think I've got my first MR in chapter 15 or so.

I did the whole game heavily dependent on event hybrids, and still use them quite a bit. Can recommend

 

[Darielle]

I can deal with it, but I know many who had a hard time.
Remember when "old event buildings" got a rebalance and now "my game is killed, I now heb negative pop and...".
For many the fact that they had to revamp there town to make it work was a huge burden, and a very negative experience.

@Darielle its totally fine to disagree if it works for you thats great, but I like to have players avoid a pitfall that might make them decide to quit. it can work, but it can also be a can also be a reason to quit the game. I do not like that last option.

I totally forgot about the fact that event buildings got nerfed in the past. I wasn't here when that happened, but I'd heard about it, and that could easily totally destroy a city and make people want to leave.

We need all the players we can get if we're going to remain viable. So I think I would modify my original advice to say that pop culture event buildings are great (for me, anyway) but don't put all your eggs in one basket. Make sure you don't rely too heavily upon one particular kind. A good mix is best.

 

[Kekune]

@SoggyShorts, I don't disagree with anything you're saying. But I'm not sure every player sees it that way. I think people often approach buildings in terms of "I'm short on pop... how can I best solve that problem?" And an evolving building like this doesn't look like an obvious solution to, well, anything because it gives you a little bit of a lot of things.

If you want to know why I, personally, am not interested in this building, it's because it's kind of ugly. If you want to value that per square, feel free.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Which building are you referring to?

Obviously, the Goblin gift shop since that's the one "handed out 20 of them 2 months ago" as stated. I also mentioned the one-offs from 2016 as irrelevant since no could get multiples.

As for a pure event building town, it's an awesome challenge and definitely possible, but would you advise any new player to follow in you path?

Yes, absolutely. It's fun, easy and ultimately very rewarding.