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Your Elvenar Team
Interesting point of view because I suspect event participants have already made up their minds as to what type of production this building will generate in their cities. Of course there are people who plan to swich from one production to another, but they're a small fraction, in my opinion.
Suddenly I don't think I want this building that much.
And here I thought it might have been a response to the request for downgrading. When I saw the note that switchable productions would be happening, I put my rewriting of that particular proposal on hold to see how the new feature would play out. I'm also thinking this is a possible response to the request for more seed producing buildings without having to hold out until chapter 18, even though it doesn't address the fact that one must obtain an event building to have a seed producer before that point.
I was also under the impression that the switchable production was a response to the complaints about the QFR introducing even more scrolls onto the market, what with every chapter from 4 up producing T2 goods as the base item. And looking at the production values for some of the older evolving and/or set buildings makes me think this is meant to provide an alternative for those who prefer to have those "lesser" productions but want the pop/culture commensurate with their current chapter.
To be fair to Inno on the productions, the fully evolved versions for chapter 1-10 of the following buildings give:
chapter 1: 14040 coins and 2380 supplies
chapter 2: 25200 coins and 4080 supplies
chapter 3: 41400 coins and 954 T1 goods and 848 T1 goods +1
chapter 4: 64800 coins and 1124 T1 goods and 1088 T1 goods +1
chapter 5: 97200 coins and 1638 T1 goods and 1456 T2 goods +1
chapter 6: 138600 coins and 2160 T1 goods and 1920 T2 goods +1
chapter 7: 176400 coins and 3060 T1 goods and 2240 T3 goods +1
chapter 8: 216000 coins and 3960 T1 goods and 2880 T3 goods +1
chapter 9: 270000 coins and 4860 T1 goods and 4640 mana
chapter 10: 324000 coins and 6300 T1 goods and 6080 mana
-bonus: 1 AW KP (not sure of how much it's worth)
chapter 1: 2240 supplies
chapter 2: 3936 supplies
chapter 3: 1696 T1 goods
chapter 4: 2176 T1 goods
chapter 5: 2912 T2 goods
chapter 6: 3776 T2 goods
chapter 7: 4576 T3 goods
chapter 8: 5792 T3 goods
chapter 9: 4640 mana and 3840 T3 goods
chapter 10: 6080 mana and 4640 T3 goods
bonus: 2 KP
chapter 1: 2660 supplies
chapter 2: 4674 supplies
-bonus for 1 & 2: 1 supply windfall instant (I don't know percentage)
chapter 3: 1007 T1 goods and 1007 T1 goods +1
chapter 4: 1292 T2 goods and 1197 T1 goods +1
chapter 5: 1729 T2 goods and 1729 T2 goods +1
chapter 6: 2242 T2 goods and 2242 T2 goods +1
chapter 7: 2926 T2 goods and 2717 T3 goods +1
chapter 8: 3990 T2 goods and 3439 T3 goods +1
chapter 9: 4940 T2 goods and 5510 mana
chapter 10: 5890 T2 goods and 7220 mana
-bonus for 3+: 1 AW KP (3)
chapter 1: 338 marble and 319 steel and 300 planks
chapter 2: 486 marble and 459 steel and 432 planks
chapter 3: 648 marble and 612 steel and 576 planks
chapter 4: 810 marble and 765 steel and 720 planks
chapter 5: 1098 marble and 1037 steel and 976 planks
chapter 6: 1476 marble and 1394 steel and 1312planks
chapter 7: 2070 marble and 1955 steel and 1840 planks
chapter 8: 2610 marble and 2465 steel and 2320 planks
chapter 9: 3222 marble and 3043 steel and 2864 planks
chapter 10: 4140 marble and 3910 steel and 3680 planks
bonus: 1 AW KP (3)
chapter 1: 3500 supplies or 40 Vallorian Guard or 39000 coins or 3500 supplies
chapter 2: 6150 supplies or 65 Vallorian Guard or 72000 coins or 6150 supplies
chapter 3: 9800 supplies or 95 Vallorian Guard or 2650 T1 goods or 2650 T1 goods +1
chapter 4: 14500 supplies or 140 Vallorian Guard or 3400 T1 goods or 3400 T1 goods +1
chapter 5: 20500 supplies or 185 Vallorian Guard or 4550 T2 goods or 4550 T2 goods +1
chapter 6: 27000 supplies or 275 Vallorian Guard or 5900 T2 goods or 5900 T2 goods +1
chapter 7: 34500 supplies or 415 Vallorian Guard or 7150 T3 goods or 7150 T3 goods +1
chapter 8: 43000 supplies or 585 Vallorian Guard or 9050 T3 goods or 9050 T3 goods +1
chapter 9: 52000 supplies or 785 Vallorian Guard or 12000 T3 goods or 14500 mana
chapter 10: 62000 supplies or 1000 Vallorian Guard or 14500 T3 goods or 19000 mana
And none of this even includes numbers on pop/culture comparisons. It's true enough that there are other benefits to the earlier buildings, so the question is really, as it's ever been, what you want for your city.
I know that in at least one city, I will be switching through productions on an as needed basis - largely because I have other buildings that also produce what is provided by this building (see above for some of them). I know that I personally am thrilled to have a building with the pop/culture benefit of my chapter that I can set to produce a large amount of supplies. Or that, in two cities, once I have it upgraded to a chapter I won't reach before event end, I can set it to produce T2+1 and only have to worry about trading scrolls for crystal.
I imagine we'll know whether people switch between productions by whether Inno keeps providing these types of buildings in future events. Because it's possible that they plan on producing these every other event or once every three (or even just once a year) while providing alternatives like the SP set with its rather large space requirement but enormous benefits (that CC), MP with its smaller footprint but similar T1 goods spread, and the QFR that provides more than one type of production past chapter 3.
But even if I did just want this for the Vallorian Guards, one 4x4 building can replace 7 5 Vallorian Valors (almost 8 6) at chapter 5. So that's one fourth third of the space (roughly; 63 45/16) not including street squares.
I'm not as disappointed by this building as you seem to be. In fact, I'm rather intrigued by it. To each his/her own, though.
Edited to fix my math on VG production numbers and space taken. Apologies for the error.
Beginner players will not find it easy completing quests in the Elvarian Games
We shouldn’t overscout because provinces will become Very Hard to complete. But… this game forces you to overscout, especially this event.
My elven friend, who I convinced to play Elvenar, is having a hard time trying to complete the Elvarian Games event quests.
She’s up to the quest to Collect 12 Relics, Solve 6 Encounters or Collect 15 Vision Vapor.
Relics can be collected from aiding and from the Tournament (just need to wait 67 hrs. for it to open). Those in the beginning chapters can only complete 3 or 4 encounters in the Tournament. That’s not fair.
Spell Fragments are needed to craft a recipe that gives you Vision Vapor. She would need to disenchant all the items in her inventory to have enough Spell Fragments to craft a recipe. That she is not doing. Spell Fragments can be randomly found in the Spire of Eternity, which is not an option for Chapter 2 players. The 1st technology of Chapter 3 needs to be completed to gain access to the Spire of Eternity.
She also has the option to buy diamonds. I did because I couldn’t miss crafting the Fire Phoenix recipe and gain 19 Vision Vapor.
Hopefully with the diamonds I bought I can evolve this critter.
To complete this quest, my elven friend will need to solve encounters on the World Map to gain relics. Thus, leading to overscouting. Ugh!
Has anyone also noticed that Triumph of Tides for many many chapters is not a choice of 1 of 4 productions, was Inno asleep when they did this ??
chapter 5: 20500 supplies or 185 Vallorian Guard or 4550 T2 goods or 4550 T2 goods +1
so 4550 T2 and 4550 T2 are the same choice, thus basically a choice of 1 of 3. Yes, some
have an actual 4 choices, but of the 10 chapters @OIM20 listed, only 2 give 4 choices....
Why can't CH5 be :
20500 supplies or 185 Vallorian Guard or 4550 T2 goods or 3033 T3 goods +1 ???
Certainly on the earlier chapters everything seems to give just T1, why can't ToT
chg that and offer the choice ( tier adj'd ) of 2 of the 3 tiers of goods ????
If Inno-Games, is nerf'n ALL events due to Ashton Phoenix ( which not even close
to everyone, has now ) and they remove Artifacts from FAs due to Silver/Gold
Leagues getting extra, then thats a direct snub to new players in general, but yet
again it shows us....... Inno's algorythms assumes that you have every possible helper
bldg/evolve/exp. bldg/AW , and if you don't your penalty is : the algorythm means
you now have to spend every event, just to "complete"
Basically its no longer the norm to barely complete events with a std. account.
Everytime a player who completes ALL tasks doesn't complete the event.....
They will come here and vent thier frustration and cynacysm of the game/devs.
I don't care how much revenue that brings in, the firestorm here on the Forum
will continue to grow, if thats the new normal.... ( and ya can't just ban 2/3rds
of the forum posters, just cause they would be anti-Inno )
One thing I noticed as a chapter 6 player is a stage 7 building gives you everything it has to offer. There is very little difference between a stage 7 and a stage 10 building. Other then looks. Not there yet by any means, but it's at least very achievable. Compared to the fairy garden in my chapter 5, to get all it was designed to do, it had to be stage 10.
ok +0 T1 , and +1 T1 ... is 2 different choices ...
(kinda) my mistake......cause they are different T1.
Alot of stuff only gives T1, not T2 ... in my case. Just try'n to replace
reg production somehow else , heh....
@Tauriel Dragonwood I started in Winyandor the night before the event started, I’m already on quest number 41 the only hiccups I ran into was not having a MA for the use of enchantment quest and at the start of produce x amount of goods quest with only level 3 factories. That issue was solved by talking to my archmage who set me up with goods for doing upgrades and some scouting, I needed to find provinces with my boosts.
Is your friend aware that they can grab 5 relics from the MA and not collect until the quest with relics appear? That’s what I have been doing and also the spell fragment quests I have been burning the KP instants I’ll get more later in the game to restock what I burned.
There is the option of getting the event buildings early on that can be disenchanted. You'll want to obtain a higher chapter version before the event closes if you can anyway -- if it's a building you're interested in having. While the options available to chapter one and two players aren't the most agreeable choices to many, there are options for obtaining the necessary items for the quests. Number 30 doesn't offer an alternative to obtaining spell fragments, so players not yet in chapter three need to disenchant just to move beyond that quest.
I agree that it would be nice if the code that reads what chapter you're in to assign values to how much of [item x] you need to collect / produce for the quest for mundane items also applied to spell fragments. But if it did that, then those in higher chapters would be forced to obtain more fragments, so if the devs did implement code like that, they would need to put a ceiling on it for later chapter players.
And it simply couldn't apply to vision vapor, because the amount of VV doesn't increase with upgrading the MA -- but the amount of spell fragments you get for disenchanting does increase, so there is an argument for that being on a very small but graduated scale to keep early chapter players interested in the game. So instead of "Collect 600 Spell Fragments" it could be 300, as a fully upgraded MA gives 100% return on disenchanted items. This would mean that the players in chapters one and two would only need to disenchant one event building, instead of one event building and several spells (or AW KP, but I'm not one to give those back to the nether).
As for obtaining CCs, it is time consuming to early chapter players. I believe all of this is done by design to encourage players to move quickly into chapter three, which, as you've noted, does encourage overscouting. If the devs were to re-evaluate the difficulty scale such that scouting and resolving all the provinces of a whole ring were possible without increasing the difficulty by two levels, something that could be limited to, say, ring 4 or less, it might help with player retention for those who join during or just prior to events. Seeing the event quests become increasingly difficult as they sit alongside chapter quests like "obtain 25 [T1+1]" or "produce 200 supplies" to the point that the event quests seem impossible to attain might be a reason for game abandonment as players become increasingly disheartened.
tl;dr: I agree with you that early chapter choices aren't the best, and the devs might possibly spend some of their time re-evaluating applying the scalable factor code to quests relying on spell fragments and CCs.
So from what i'm reading the Triumph of the Tides only gives you one production? The bones production is just more options.
I thought it would be like previous building where you get a "base production" and "bonus production". Am I missing something?
My building is at stage 4 and so far my T3 is just one more option, not a bonus production.
I was in the middle of typing up a reply admitting that the productions are at least fairly large to make up for only being a single-production building, but after comparing them to my other buildings I'm still only mixed at best.
The supply production is lower than a workshop from the previous chapter for me, but it's probably not like that further down the tree where workshops are much smaller than the 30-square behemoths in chapter 17/18.
I can already collect enough seeds from my Trader to run 2 each of my T4/T5/T6 manufactories, so that production isn't going to be necessary either.
Following that, I'm already able to produce plenty of T5 (and mine's the one that decays into scrolls, everyone's favorite T2 good), though that production is decent as a 'free' (as in it doesn't cost seeds) source of T5 goods.
The Vallorian production is also decent. Absolutely doesn't hold a candle to training them in the Mercenary Camp, but that's by far my most taxed training building and it's about 2.5x better than a Vallorian Valor building for the space. So ultimately, I'd use it for the Vallorians. Still feels weak having a 16-square evolving building only producing a single unit, but at least it's a useful unit (or the most useful heavy melee unit, at least).
@Torcuato and @qaccy
My biggest city is in orcs. So getting this building now means 2 chapters of spectacular mana production. This building only makes mana in two chapters but for those two chapters it makes mana better than anything else.