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    Your Elvenar Team

Elvenar Efficiency Calculator

DeletedUser19020

Guest
I created a little calculator for trying to compare the efficiency of various buildings and building levels, as it's often hard to make sense of the numbers (generally speaking, as you upgrade a building, the culture and population requirements grow faster than the output, while the building's actual footprint grows slower than output). Also, as the amount of culture and population per space goes down as you advance through the chapters, this also adds yet another wrinkle into trying to understand the data.

This calculator will try and tell you the efficiency of most of the buildings. Just enter the level of streets, residences, and workshops you're using and it'll calculate the data from there.

It's available at https://elvenefficiency.netlify.com/ . Please let me know if you have any questions or feedback. I'd love to extend it to make it useful for more people. If it doesn't make sense, let me know that too and I can try and clarify things too. If you're interested in reading the code, it's available at https://github.com/ypisetsky/elveneff/ (sorry, it looks horrible on mobile, haven't had the time to make a mobile version yet; might do it if people want it).
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Laufey said:
@SoggyShorts doesn't ElvenStats do this?
Click to expand...
Nope. Also I'm not @elvenstats, he's someone much smarter;)

EDIT: WOW. Thank you so much @Serrif, you have no idea how many half-assed excel sheets I have that partially do this very badly.

So nice to be able to see the "true size" of buildings at a glance. This will be my new favorite toy for a while I think:)
 
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Arayla

Arayla

Well-Known Member
Ok, I really like the idea of this. When I go to the site, I choose Elves, Halflings, Two 9hr One 3hr. Then I get lost. Do I need to change the Culture Density? Could you give me a super-brief walkthrough?
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
arayla said:
Ok, I really like the idea of this. When I go to the site, I choose Elves, Halflings, Two 9hr One 3hr. Then I get lost. Do I need to change the Culture Density? Could you give me a super-brief walkthrough?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not sure what culture density is for either.
Also, changing the daily collections doesn't seem to do anything to workshops.
 

DeletedUser19020

Guest
Thanks for the feedback and questions!

Culture Density is "how much culture can I get from a standard culture building per square?". This starts out at 22.3 when your best culture building per square is the Purple Blossom Trees. Early on in Orcs, before you get Orc buildings, it would be 123 (the best culture building you can build is the Pond of Recreation, which is 3700 culture on 30 squares = 123 per square). The higher the culture density, the more valuable a square of land is compared to a unit of culture. I set up some defaults for it for some of the chapters, but can finish those off (if you select a chapter in the top left it'll fill in defaults for the other parameters on the left side).

If you hover over "Spaces Used" on a building, you'll see this in action: I express the culture requirement of the building in terms of spaces. Play with the culture density and you'll see this change. The actual math used for each of the components of Spaces Used is here: https://github.com/ypisetsky/elveneff/blob/master/src/building.js#L89 (this computes it as culture, but I then convert it into spaces for displaying).

About Daily Collections: I didn't hook up the daily collections to the workshop's stats (I'll do that tonight) since it doesn't really change much on a relative basis. I used that stat to figure out how many workshops you need to match a production building (since workshops become worse compared to manufactories if you run at 9 hours instead of 3). [Edit: this is fixed]

Quick walk through: select your race and which chapter you're in in the top left. From then, you can select a couple buildings to view the true size of the levels of those buildings in terms of the total space footprint on your town (based on the space of the building, the culture it'll use, the space the residences for the population needed for it, the culture of the residences, the workshops if applicable, and the streets). You can use this to get an idea of which upgrades you should prioritize or which you should postpone. It's also usable to help make sense of pop+culture buildings compared to pure culture buildings.
 
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SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Serrif said:
I didn't hook up the daily collections to the workshop's stats (I'll do that tonight) since it doesn't really change much on a relative basis.
Click to expand...
The reason I noticed was because I immediately wanted to check some math I'd handed out last night on Endless Excavation VS Dwarven workshop.
BTW, could wonders perhaps be added to the list of buildings?
Just the Prosperity towers and EE would be great to start.
 

DeletedUser19020

Guest
I don't think most Ancient Wonders make sense without some sort of save/load features. They don't cost any culture at all, just the space they stand on and road space, and their output is dependent on how many other buildings you have (for instance Prosperity towers' raw production is easy to calculate, but its value also depends on the number of workshops you maintain PoP spells on, and the duration benefit I can't even model at all).

I guess Endless Excavation is straightforward enough that I can just add it (I'll just completely ignore the relic part) (edit: I'll have to think about how to ask for main hall level nicely).
 
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SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@Serrif
I'd be happy with the PT being added just for its supplies production per square, ignoring other features. Since you already have a # of collects that is selected it should be easy to see if and when it becomes better than a workshop.
For the EE, I think it's fair to assume max level mainhall for your chapter. If it's not true right now, it will be soon. ;)

I can't really think of any other wonders that would be as useful to compare directly like this.
 

DeletedUser19020

Guest
SoggyShorts said:
BTW, could wonders perhaps be added to the list of buildings?
Just the Prosperity towers and EE would be great to start.
Click to expand...

I just added both of those (just for their supplies bonuses). If you collect your manufactories 4 times a day they're equivalent (and way better than workshops), otherwise, the more you collect the better Prosperity Towers are compared to EE.

I think it'll be a bit easier to add more wonders now if you have more requests for some of the simpler ones.

(Edit 11 hours later: I actually remember to rebuild before pushing the new version up)
 
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SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Serrif said:
I think it'll be a bit easier to add more wonders now if you have more requests for some of the simpler ones.
Click to expand...
A bit of a niche one, but maybe seeing how effective the heroes forge is at making orcs compared to an armory could be useful for a negotiator. (Combat players just use existing barracks I think)

Another set of buildings that would be nice to compare is the travelling merchants. I know they get crapped on a lot, but I think when you do a "true size" comparison they can come out ahead of a normal factory.
 

DeletedUser19020

Guest
@SoggyShorts that's a good idea. I guess I'll add an option for relic boost and then those types of buildings (and more broadly, event buildings which provide trade goods) can be comparable.
 

DeletedUser19020

Guest
OK added that on what used to be the "Residence/Culture calculator" page. It's now a more generic custom calculator. Keep the feature requests coming :)
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence

DeletedUser9601

Guest
Great tool so far!
Suggested next step. Let people have profiles where we can "save" our buildings. I liked using this to compare all the various pop/culture event buildings to see which one should be deleted first when I run out of room.
 

Deleted User - 4404748

Guest
So according to @Serrif's calculator, ALL goods producing buildings get less efficient after Chapter 5 or Dwarves, by production per culture tile, so if I can afford the time, it's better to build new factories and get them to chapter 5 levels than to upgrade existing ones beyond that. Is that accurate?
 

Deleted User - 4646370

Guest
One thing quite missing in the calcuator is Abyss/Mountain Halls level, as it can decrease population needs by up to 30%. (Same thing for culture and Watchtower/Monastery.)
 
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