Elvenar Trade Center

[Henroo]

I am currently doing the AW research at the end of Halflings, which means I am about to unlock the Elvenar Trade Center AW. Is it worth building? I am primarily interested in it as a seed producer. Right now my city is doing GREAT on producing goods. I have huge surpluses of everything. So the Magical Manufactoring part of the AW is nice, but is not critical. How does it do making seeds and how does ETC scale up as you level it and advance? For example, I can get decent seed production from Festival Merchants right now. And now that I am at Halflings level, some future event daily buildings will make seeds. Will ETC surpass them on a space for space basis once leveled some? Or am I better off relying on Festival Merchants and future event buildings for seed production?

 

[SoggyShorts]

I don't think you can reasonably use the ETC to outproduce a Festival Merchant.
E.g. My level 6 ETC makes 140 seeds per hour vs my chapter 15 festival makes 125 per hour in half the space.
BUT, the 15% boost to sentient production is nice and so is extending the MM duration to 17 hours from 13.

Back when it was released there were no seed buildings in events, and crafting wasn't a thing.
Honestly looking at it now I think I might remove it.

 

[samidodamage]

Once I reached Sentient goods chapters (starts in Elementals), I look to the ETC much more for the MM spell boost. I have millions of regular tier goods, but Sentients are tough (I'm boosted in tree gum in one city and that's hard to give away, lol! Just like the scroll boost that I also have there). The demands on sentients are large once you get to Ch15 and I'm about to enter it in that city. Demand only goes up from there. I've stopped leveling it for now (concentrating on Time Warp atm) but will probably return to it once I have my tourney cool down reduced a bit more. At lvl 9 it's an 18.75% boost to production and the time extension is just under 18hrs (it's 13hrs for me without the ETC, too).

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Yes, it will not prove it's worth until you are dealing with sentient goods production, especially once you are into chapter 14 and need all three tiers of sentient goods. At that point, you will probably be running MMs non-stop, so the extra boost of a level 5 or level 10 ETC, and a fed Storm Phoenix, if you have one, will literally save you many days of sentient goods accumulation.

 

[Henroo]

@Enevhar Aldarion @samidodamage If I am understanding your comments correctly, at some point in the future I will be able to cast Magical Manufactoring enchantments on Sentient Good producers. And the buff from ETC will apply in these cases. Is this accurate?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Is this accurate?

Yes.

 

[Lelanya]

I would keep the ETC folks, even level 2 or 3, the bonus on MMs is very much worth the space. I get frustrated with my smaller cities when the spell runs out.

 

[Iyapo1]

ETC is on my absolutely must have list. But I run a catering city so I face different consideration than fighting cities.

 

[Kekune]

ETC is on my absolutely must have list. But I run a catering city so I face different consideration than fighting cities.

I am mostly a fighter, and still wouldn't give up my ETC, if only for sentient goods.

 

[SoggyShorts]

ETC is on my absolutely must have list. But I run a catering city so I face different consideration than fighting cities.

I am mostly a fighter, and still wouldn't give up my ETC, if only for sentient goods.

Has either of you run any numbers on when the slight MM boost from the ETC is better than simply using that 5x5 space for more factories?

 

[Kekune]

Has either of you run any numbers on when the slight MM boost from the ETC is better than simply using that 5x5 space for more factories?

Dude. That's your job.

I often make decisions for other reasons than per-square output. One of them is flexibility. I like that the ETC boosts any factory type I want. If I wanna boost my steel this week for the FA, great. And next week I can boost all my sentient goods. Or only the t6, when I was in ch15. Or whatever.

I'm not gonna attempt a break-even calculation, but I'll tell you what I get out of mine. My ETC is at lvl 12. It boosts my MM spells to 73.75% which last 19+ hrs, and it provides 2888 seeds in 12 hrs.

My best still-available seeds producer is the pond of autumn and it gives me 1060/day. I'll use that as a comparison because I think it's about equal to the FMs which are readily craftable, but which I don't have because they're so darned ugly. Yeah, there's some difference due to the early collect, but the ETC seed output is roughly equal to 5.5 ponds of autumn which would take up about 22 squares ignoring road connections.

So if 22 squares are basically producing seeds, then the remaining 3 squares boost the MM spell. My MM spells last 19+ hours now, so when I apply one, every collection I make in a day is boosted. So if it gets me almost an extra 25% production above the normal MM and I typically apply it to at least 4 factories, then I figure I am getting an entire factory's worth of output in those three squares, right? With the added benefit of not tying myself to a particular factory type or having to rework my city to teleport in and out differently-shaped things.

I know that math is fuzzy (because I'm perfectly happy with ballparks in a game) but it seems like a winner to me, assuming you've got the KP for it. I like everything it gives me (seeds, goods, flexibility) so I am a fan. It's not on my "must have list" but now that I've got it, it's a keeper.

Feel free to totally tear that apart.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Has either of you run any numbers on when the slight MM boost from the ETC is better than simply using that 5x5 space for more factories?

Between all my boosts and AWs, my level 12 ETC adds an extra 1628 to my 3-hour production in my level 31 platinum factory. Yes, if that were the only factory I was boosting, then a 2nd level 31 factory in place of the ETC would produce much more. But when I apply MMs, I am doing it to all my sentient factories at one time, so I am getting bonus goods of multiple types, and replacing the ETC with a single extra factory would do no good in that situation. Same goes during events and the FA when collecting a "good amount" of goods for quests or that badge. I am MMing four or five marble factories at one time, so the boost from the ETC makes a big difference there too. So on a one-to-one basis, the ETC is worse, but in real-game situations, it is much better to have.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Dude. That's your job.

Ooooh, a direct hit!

I often make decisions for other reasons than per-square output.

I'll kindly ask you not to blaspheme in my presence...

Feel free to totally tear that apart.

It's actually very solid reasoning except for the MM effect measurement. The MM spell already gives you 150% production and the ETC changes that to 173.75% which is an increase of 15.8%. This just means you'd need an MM spell on 6 buildings, not 4 to increase your output by a full building's worth.
BUT far more important is your square measurement (as always) and if you are boosting your output by 15% using 3 squares, it doesn't even need to be calculated, it's a guaranteed winner.

Really the only question then is the KP expenditure, and that's going to be very subjective but generally speaking, the KP needed to get it to level ~12 is pretty cheap so again, worth it.

Personally, I'm in a different(niche?) situation because I get all of the seeds that I can use from other set buildings and don't need them from my ETC at all which completely changes the calculation.

 

[SoggyShorts]

So on a one-to-one basis, the ETC is worse, but in real-game situations, it is much better to have.

Ew! Applied numbers instead of just theoretical ones? Gross.
But seriously, if you have multiple or alternating building types that you use MM spells on the ETC does offer flexibility that adding another factory can't since there is no option to add 1/6 of a max level building of each kind that you can freely teleport in & out.

 

[Kekune]

It's actually very solid reasoning except for the MM effect measurement. The MM spell already gives you 150% production and the ETC changes that to 173.75% which is an increase of 15.8%.

Ack! I suddenly realized I'd done this and hoped I'd correct it before you got here. This is why I don't math in public.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Ew! Applied numbers instead of just theoretical ones? Gross.
But seriously, if you have multiple or alternating building types that you use MM spells on the ETC does offer flexibility that adding another factory can't since there is no option to add 1/6 of a max level building of each kind that you can freely teleport in & out.

By the way, I never noticed that the MM boost is applied last in the formula. So it also boosts everything else that also increases production. It gives a bonus from all the relic bonus, not just the max 700% from your relics. So that extra 23.75% from the ETC is a true percent, not the 15% you told @Kekune .

 

[Iyapo1]

Has either of you run any numbers on when the slight MM boost from the ETC is better than simply using that 5x5 space for more factories?

I actually look at the wonders from an end result perspective. What will I get when it is lv 30?
In this case a 50% increase in the MM effect. So, each MM spell is the equivalent to having another fully upgraded factory that uses no roads culture or people.
I did not even consider the seed production as relevant.

 

[SoggyShorts]

By the way, I never noticed that the MM boost is applied last in the formula. So it also boosts everything else that also increases production. It gives a bonus from all the relic bonus, not just the max 700% from your relics. So that extra 23.75% from the ETC is a true percent, not the 15% you told @Kekune .

No, sorry you can check it yourself.
Cast an MM spell, look at the production, then take your ETC off a road and check again.

E.G.
My ETc is showing 65% (instead of MM natural 50%
That is a 15% change, but in reality 15 of 150 is 10%
Actual numbers:
7557 with ETC on road
6870 with ETC off road
Difference 10%, not 15%

 

[SoggyShorts]

I actually look at the wonders from an end result perspective. What will I get when it is lv 30?

I'm not a fan of this approach since
1. Almost every wonder is worth placing at level 30
2. Without cheating or extreme play you'd need a decade to get them all to level 30.
3. If looking at spending ~15,000 KP on a wonder then the opportunity cost of spending those KP on this wonder instead of that wonder becomes very real.

 

[Iyapo1]

3. If looking at spending ~15,000 KP on a wonder then the opportunity cost of spending those KP on this wonder instead of that wonder becomes

I actually have no idea what this means.

I compared them all to each other at level 30 and then picked the ones that would have the biggest impact on my city with my playstyle.
I tried to keep it under 5 but failed. Right now I am tossing Mountain Halls against Heros Forge and letting them duke it out for spot 6. With an occasional alternate waving at me from the sidelines.