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Your Elvenar Team
Enemy counts
- Thread starter Matrickz
- Start date
Iamaita
Well-Known Member
I think he meant numbers matter.
I play almost exclusively on mobile. You can see the troop numbers. You just have to hit the fight button first. The enemy squad size and your own squad size will be displayed. Then if it looks like you are outmatched, you press the x to go back instead of loading your own troops.
I play almost exclusively on mobile. You can see the troop numbers. You just have to hit the fight button first. The enemy squad size and your own squad size will be displayed. Then if it looks like you are outmatched, you press the x to go back instead of loading your own troops.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
The mobile app lists number of squads and squad size, but not the number of troops in each actual squad. This is not a big deal for the player, since we always have five squads, but when the enemy has more or less than five, you have to do math to figure out how many actual troops are in each enemy squad.
Iamaita
Well-Known Member
This is an example of what it shows:
So I think you are suggesting that it display 264 under the light melee and 66 under each mage and the heavy melee the way it would on browser?
Is this information actually useful for autofight? Please let me know. If it will help me lose fewer troops, I will do some math! Because for this particular fight, I would just say I have a bigger squad, equal level troops, and cerberus will be the most effective. Then I would plan to lose several squads but win the fight.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Because the enemy has six squads, they actually have more troops than you. But yeah, to some mobile players, having the actual number in each enemy squad would be helpful.
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
So it's 264 times 6 vs 279 times 5. 1584 vs 1395. If the strength of each troop is the same the odds are in favor of the opponent. But then you have to consider if you're using any boosts. AW's give boosts to some kinds of troops. ELR, MMM and the important Fire Phoenix (when fed) also give boosts. So, if you just have the Fire Phoenix at lvl 10 and fed, your troops would be 2092.5. But wait, there's more!
For each troop type you may have an AW that increases their offensive power. Do you have a Victory Springs? If so if you send light melee out you have to calculate again. Those 2092.5 troops gain a bit of a boost, depending on the level of your AW. So you have a 15% level. 5 dogs will put 2301.75 equivalent troops out there against their 1584.
Now of course that’s offense. You have boosts for Defense as well. A Dwarven Armorer is a 50% health boost. Sweet, but does that mean your troops are 50% stronger? What is the ratio between a health boost (which is defensive) and a offense boost? It is 1 to 1? Or does it depend on the troop type and who is hitting them? We know if you send dogs against mages the mages are in bad shape. We know that every troop has a weakness, and a strength or two. How do you calculate that?
And then there’s the terrain. Since you have no idea if the field is going to be wide open or cluttered with obstacles you have no idea if your slow heavy melee units can reach those two mages before those mages destroy them, or not.
In the end then, I’m betting NOBODY (or so close to nobody that to argue otherwise is to quibble) does the actual calculations but, instead, does a sort of “estimation,” of which the size of squads is the primary component. They look, they see that their squad size is 279 and that they face a squad size of 264. Then sense that the difference isn’t’ that much even if their opponent is sending six to their five. Then they look the types of troops and estimate that if they send something strong against mages their troops will lose less. How much they do not calculate but only sense. “I should be okay with 5 dogs” they might say to themselves because it’s 5 dogs to 4 mages and the other stuff is single units. “Dogs will get to them quickly,” they might reason, “so they can’t do that much damage.”
So 5 dogs it is and away they go, reasonably certain they will win. As they fight more and more they hone their intuitions, realizing that if it’s 3 mages and 2 light melee, 5 light melee might not work as well as 2 light ranged and 3 dogs. But it’s a “sense” of the matter, not a calculation. As they go along that “sense” become more fine tuned, but it isn’t really a calculation, but a recognition of patterns. And that is how most of us, I think, fight.
The “moral to the story” is simple enough. Forget the calculations and go with your gut. Look at the squad size, the number of armies you are facing and forget the details after that. Experience will, over time, make those details something you sense rather than compute.
AJ
For each troop type you may have an AW that increases their offensive power. Do you have a Victory Springs? If so if you send light melee out you have to calculate again. Those 2092.5 troops gain a bit of a boost, depending on the level of your AW. So you have a 15% level. 5 dogs will put 2301.75 equivalent troops out there against their 1584.
Now of course that’s offense. You have boosts for Defense as well. A Dwarven Armorer is a 50% health boost. Sweet, but does that mean your troops are 50% stronger? What is the ratio between a health boost (which is defensive) and a offense boost? It is 1 to 1? Or does it depend on the troop type and who is hitting them? We know if you send dogs against mages the mages are in bad shape. We know that every troop has a weakness, and a strength or two. How do you calculate that?
And then there’s the terrain. Since you have no idea if the field is going to be wide open or cluttered with obstacles you have no idea if your slow heavy melee units can reach those two mages before those mages destroy them, or not.
In the end then, I’m betting NOBODY (or so close to nobody that to argue otherwise is to quibble) does the actual calculations but, instead, does a sort of “estimation,” of which the size of squads is the primary component. They look, they see that their squad size is 279 and that they face a squad size of 264. Then sense that the difference isn’t’ that much even if their opponent is sending six to their five. Then they look the types of troops and estimate that if they send something strong against mages their troops will lose less. How much they do not calculate but only sense. “I should be okay with 5 dogs” they might say to themselves because it’s 5 dogs to 4 mages and the other stuff is single units. “Dogs will get to them quickly,” they might reason, “so they can’t do that much damage.”
So 5 dogs it is and away they go, reasonably certain they will win. As they fight more and more they hone their intuitions, realizing that if it’s 3 mages and 2 light melee, 5 light melee might not work as well as 2 light ranged and 3 dogs. But it’s a “sense” of the matter, not a calculation. As they go along that “sense” become more fine tuned, but it isn’t really a calculation, but a recognition of patterns. And that is how most of us, I think, fight.
The “moral to the story” is simple enough. Forget the calculations and go with your gut. Look at the squad size, the number of armies you are facing and forget the details after that. Experience will, over time, make those details something you sense rather than compute.
AJ
Last edited:
Yogi Dave
Well-Known Member
When the new tourney style goes live, you are always facing 5 stacks of enemies, so the difficulty is easier to compute. It's the number in their stack divided by your stack size. However, I'd like to see that ratio displayed before you even choose battle vs cater. Having it there will help decide if it is even worth moving on to choose troops.
Seeing the ratio will reduce the time it takes to develop your gut. Of course, so will eating too much pie and ice cream.
Iamaita
Well-Known Member
@ajqtrz thanks for this information. It’s very helpful. I actually went back and looked at this particular battle on the simulator after @Enevhar Aldarion pointed our total troop numbers. Because I also just sort of get a feel based on general numbers and types. I’m new, so my feelings need honesty a bit. Especially when it comes to understanding the strengths and weaknesses of different types of troops. Based on my current level everything, I would not win this battle with five dogs without putting down a dwarven armorer. I think what is happening is that the enchantress’s range is letting them wipe out my puppies before they can get close enough to do any damage. My current troop boosts aren’t enough to compensate. I actually tried to edit my post last night to cross out “lose several squads but win the fight” and replace it with “lose horribly”. But I couldn’t figure out how to do strikethrough text and just went to bed. Lol Anyway, I have this encounter sitting there on the map because I don’t need to solve it yet. I will likely wait until I do a squad size upgrade or cater it if I end up needing it for an event quest.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
There is one thing to remember when it comes to fights you think you should win, but don't. Even though we can only use autofight on mobile, all the terrain variations on the battle maps are still there, like with the browser version. And there are some very bad layouts for our side of some fights, including some with choke points that only allow one squad at a time to get through to the enemy. So if you get one of those randomly, and you are only fighting with melee troops, you will lose much more than you thought you would.