Event Production Quests Rebalancing

[DeletedUser20951]

Alright, I'll preface this with the note that I know the idea has as much chance as a snowball's survival in the Hells of ever being implemented, but believe it would appeal to those who value actual challenge, a level playing field, and not employing exploitative techniques.

To combat the steady increase in the demanded number of certain production cycles of both factories and workshops for quests during events, I propose that such quests should require producing a certain amount of boosted goods and supplies from your own factories and workshops, based on the chapter you are currently in, instead. This would help cut out the cheat-like quality of constructing slews of level one factories and buildings, lengthen the time needed to complete the sequential quest line for all players (which I assume is what the developers are attempting to do with the recent quest modifications, but it ultimately hurts those who are either unaware of, or choose not to use, the beta list of quests), and bring a little relevance back to having factories in the first place. Spells and timers boosts could still be used to to speed up the process, and I think the amount of each resource asked for should be on the lower side of average to not hinder newer players, or lower for newer players and higher for the advanced, whichever, and then tinkered with further after feedback and guinea pig testing.

The same formula could be applied to Challenges, as well, where X amount of supplies/goods collected from your personal manus and shops equals whatever amount of medals, scaled to present Age.

Regardless of how it's done, I firmly believe this is a serious problem, causing nearly every player to have to build a bunch of throwaway buildings in order to have a chance at completing all of the quests, along with using a list of quests, which is absurd.

 

[LEO1WOLF]

HEAR, HEAR >ahem< - - HERE, HERE I say! =-)

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I agree.
I prefer to do events by going with the quests and dealing with them as they are shown. Doing so means that quite often I don't manage to finish the event completely because of the ridiculous times needed (scout 1 or 2 provinces for instance, at 80+ hours per scout that's a problem) and the time for the event doesn't actually consider the amount of time needed if done sequentially by someone with a job who can't sit and wait at the screen for a production to finish.
And I definitely don't like quests that go like : 80x 'brews' or 'simple tools' because I can't be online all the time, so something like that might take me a day or more to actually finish.
In order to finish, one actually does need to use a list and plan accordingly, trying to make things happen in such a timeframe as to get as much done in advance with a whole bunch of lvl 1 buildings. Which btw often is only possible in between different chapters, when the guestrace buildings have been sold off.

The need of a list of quests in order to be able to finish an event is a problem in itself as I consider that cheating. It means that players who actually try to do the quests sequentially, as hey are presented, often end up royally screwed.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

The need of a list of quests in order to be able to finish an event is a problem in itself as I consider that cheating. It means that players who actually try to do the quests sequentially, as hey are presented, often end up royally screwed.

I agree with this so much it's almost physically painful. I think about it a lot, how those who play without cheating fare, and I have tried forging through without a list and that didn't end well.

And oh hey, I only now realized that this change would have the effect of a moderate stimulus package for first tier goods, and while it might not fully offset the overabundance of other tiered goods, I think it would help some.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I agree with this so much it's almost physically painful. I think about it a lot, how those who play without cheating fare, and I have tried forging through without a list and that didn't end well.

And oh hey, I only now realized that this change would have the effect of a moderate stimulus package for first tier goods, and while it might not fully offset the overabundance of other tiered goods, I think it would help some.

Its one reason I often have to disagree with @SoggyShorts
Yes, there are many event buildings that generate stuff and by following a list and pre-arranging all kinds of lvl 1 production buildings one can relatively easily get to those grand prizes. And those often only work well when the set is complete.
But for those that do NOT want to follow a list ahead of time, the possibility of getting a full set is drastically reduced.

As for the overabundance of T3 goods: @SoggyShorts has done the math several times. The problem is intrinsic in the fact that the 16:4:1 ratio is way off the actual cost if one takes into account the amount of space, culture, pop and supplies needed. As soon as Inno would admit that and change the rate to 9:3:1 (still a bit off, but not nearly as bad) the overproduction of T3 goods would greatly slow down as well since it isn't as profitable anymore.
And as an added bonus, I probably wouldn't open the trader to see 60+ pages, of which more than half are cross-tier trades T3 offered for T1.

 

[Ashrem]

goods would greatly slow down as well since it isn't as profitable anymore.

There is no ratio that would make it unprofitable to produce T3 goods for free, in a building that also provides culture. Jester's tavern alone is adding millions of costless-T3 to the trader every day.

 

[Socrates28]

The need of a list of quests in order to be able to finish an event is a problem in itself as I consider that cheating. It means that players who actually try to do the quests sequentially, as hey are presented, often end up royally screwed.

I find it hard to understand why you call the use of public and published knowledge "Cheating." Cheating assumes that one party knows something that the other does not. It does not contain the concept of one party purposely "not" using what all easily have access to.
I can understand you not wanting to use it for you have free will and can decide how you want to play the game. That is your choice. It is not mine.
If I can honestly know (NOT CHEATING) what a quest is ahead of time and prepare for it, or not, as space and time allow, then I am only using the information that has been provided to me. If you do not and end up at a disadvantage (not getting the prizes), you were not "royally screwed" as you chose to be ignorant of the information you could have used to get what you wanted.
Would you place a building in your city not knowing what it was and what it was going to do? No you would not. If you do, that is again your choice.
Please do not restrict my choices just because it does not suit your game play style.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Cheating assumes that one party knows something that the other does not.

Which is my main beef with Inno basing the quest design on information that exists outside of the game, no matter that it can be accessed by everybody. No one should have to visit the forums or a third party site in order to successfully complete the quest line in the game, as it does effectively pit those in the know against those who are not, and satisfies your own description of cheating.

 

[Ashrem]

Which is my main beef with Inno basing the quest design on information that exists outside of the game

There's no reason to think they do. Inno has won international business awards for the quality of their data collection from their games. They want eyeballs glued to the screen. Every second someone looks at the screen, the chance they will buy diamonds increases. If they run out of quests after 10 days, they are less engaged. They know to a fraction of a percent how many people are completing how many quests in what amount of time and how much of it is done by spending cash. It is completely irrelevant to them whether a player got information from another site, or picked through it one quest at a time, or got information from an FS member who spent $1500.00 worth of diamonds to finish it in the first hour..

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Which is my main beef with Inno basing the quest design on information that exists outside of the game, no matter that it can be accessed by everybody. No one should have to visit the forums or a third party site in order to successfully complete the quest line in the game, as it does effectively pit those in the know against those who are not, and satisfies your own description of cheating.

The entire sets of quests, both the daily and the sequential, are written before the event even starts on Beta. And we get these spoiler lists because it is an open Beta and the Beta players are allowed to make these lists and share them. Inno pretty much has to allow it because you can be a player on both the Beta and normal servers, so to not release the info in advance would really give a limited group of players a big advantage. But fortunately, there is no PvP element to the events.

However, I do agree with you on some of it, but I call it "cheating" when I talk about it, and not true cheating. I do not touch any of the lists or sites before the event starts on the regular servers because, to me, that feels morally like "cheating", even if it is not actual cheating. I guess I also do not like the lists being out there before the event even starts for the normal servers because it feels like it takes some of the challenge away from the event.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

There's no reason to think they do. Inno has won international business awards for the quality of their data collection from their games.

Aye, they'd be reviewing all intel and the goal of every business is to make money, despite the sweet-smelling altruistic reasons they might tout to improve their image, but they are still reactively tailoring the quests because of the players who use information not available inside of the game, itself, to finish the quests in less than a day, and their attempts to stanch this practice is now causing the quests to be nigh impossible to finish in the allotted time without looking up the beta information, so the end result is the same. Now, if you want to argue that it's fine to force players to have to spend money to complete 'em, which many companies do, that's a whole 'nother monster.

so to not release the info in advance would really give a limited group of players a big advantage.

I really don't mind its release to the general public, but that it is inspiring the altering of the quests in the way I've already outlined. What is needed is a solution the increases the duration of quest completion for those with this info without stonewalling those not privy to it from fulfilling the quests.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I really don't mind its release to the general public, but that it is inspiring the altering of the quests in the way I've already outlined. What is needed is a solution the increases the duration of quest completion for those with this info without stonewalling those not privy to it from fulfilling the quests.

I think I mentioned it in the event thread, but I chuckled a bit at the anguish expressed by some players when we got that extra set of 20 sequential quests added on part way through the event. I like the idea of not getting them all at one time and I would not mind if they only released half the sequential quests when the event started on Beta and then released the other half when the event went live on the normal servers. But in future events they do need to let us know in advance that we are not getting access to all the quests at one time.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

I like the idea of not getting them all at one time

I've thought about stages of quests spread throughout events, and I think I'd prefer that to the current setup, but I am a bit uncomfortable with the concept of such a hard cap on progress, where it stymies efforts of determination and planning to finish the quests as quickly as possible, something I'm not against at all. Would be a quick and easy temporary fix, though. Wait, thought about it some more, and if done right, it could be a permanent fix. Hmm...

Well, a partial fix. Still believe the requirement of level one warrens needs to be eliminated.

 

[Ashrem]

don't mind its release to the general public, but that it is inspiring the altering of the quests in the way I've already outlined.

That's an assumption, and it doesn't have strong factual support. They already said the evolution artifacts would be rare outside the original event. If this were easy for everyone to complete, it would be pretty common.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

If this were easy for everyone to complete, it would be pretty common.

I don't want it easy, I want it possible*.

*without the use of a master quest list and ridiculous profusion of level ones (that's a fairly important qualifying detail to leave off XD)

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

...and ridiculous profusion of level ones (that's a fairly important qualifying detail to leave off XD)

I do not think this part will change any time soon, since having to produce X number of 3-hour or 9-hour or 24-hour or 48-hour goods or supplies has been part of every event for as long as I can remember, and I have been playing for almost 3 years now. We are just lucky they dropped the tier 2 and tier 3 goods quests the events had in the early days.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

I do not think this part will change any time soon

I concur, unfortunately, due to the track record of the developers, but that won't stop me from typing my displeasure with what I view as a major defect in the gameplay.

 

[Socrates28]

I don't want it easy, I want it possible*.

*without the use of a master quest list and ridiculous profusion of level ones (that's a fairly important qualifying detail to leave off XD)

I still find it courious that you want to force your game play methods upon me. If you do not want to use the Beta information then do not do so and live with the consequences of that decision. I play the game within the same parameters that you do. If you make different decisions than I do as to what your city will look like, or what goals you will strive to achieve, all well and good. However, you should not at the same time complain to me that my city does not look like yours because my decisions differ from yours. I am for more information not less. I want more choices not less, and if I have to work harder, or differently, than you do to achieve them, then so be it.
It is not Inno that makes the completion of the lists impossible, it is how you play the game. You make your own decisions and should live with the consequences of those decisions.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

It is not Inno that makes the completion of the lists impossible, it is how you play the game.

...I could almost swear you haven't read a word I've typed, but if you honestly think the current system isn't broken, that I'm trying to force you to conform, all while claiming that other players don't have to play the same way you do, when they do have to if they want to have success in the events, that's cool. *scavenges around and pulls out pot* BUT I AM THE KETTLE.

 

[Ashrem]

It's almost never possible to cater to everyone, all the time. There is no such thing as a quest system (or game, or anything humans create) that no one will think is broken/bad. Whether it's art, music, or game quests.

There has been no event where you had to know what was coming to succeed. Events are one way of engaging players who have limited things to do. Early players are either lost in the first few days, or they tend to go on for several chapters. They don't need to "complete" events, although they are, of course, driven to do so by human nature, which has developed over millennia of success-oriented selective pressure. The developers want people to keep playing. Events which encourage later-stage players to either slow down their progress (by devoting a chunk of their city to event-specific construction), or (if near the end of the game) tear down chunks of their city so that they can complete events, are filling exactly the requirement the developers want.