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    Your Elvenar Team

Expanded territory by negotiation, now I can't fight

DeletedUser18583

Guest
What it says on the tin. I ignored fighting until I had provinces 3 tiles away from my city in all directions. Now I've got a quest that involves fighting, but I have a problem. I'm up to a mighty squad size of 24, but my enemies have squad sizes up in the 124 range. I can't win with odds like that. Furthermore, I would like to keep expanding provinces so that I can expand my city. This means that the farther ahead in the game I get, the less likely I am to fight successfully.

Is my best option to just stop conquering provinces until my squad size levels way up?

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The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Honestly? You shouldn't ever fight in the main map provinces...
Early game, especially through Ch.'s 2 & 3, you're basically in a near auto-lose moment of the game.
Your squad sizes are tiny, AND, most importantly, you haven't yet unlocked all your 'basic' Barracks units, hence, you typically get screwed over by being hard-countered badly in certain provinces.

However, by the later game, the squad sizes in general become so beyond astronomically huge, it's not worth fighting simply because the losses take forever to recover!

Save your troops for tournaments, which are a % based off of your overall squad size.
Thus, never researching any of the 'optional' squad size techs (ie: those that are 'dead ends' in the tech tree & don't unlock further techs), will allow to go further in tournaments, win more stuff & more relics! :D


For your current situation, check to see if you can decline your current quest...
Many of the "Solve X encounters" & "Win X encounters by fighting" are optional recurring quests. Ignore these, otherwise you'll be pushed too far ahead on the map, and probably run into the infamous "Orc wall" in the 11th ring.
 

DeletedUser6219

Guest
I have never HAD to fight for any quests. I have actually never fought in this game because it doesn't interest me. If you do not have the option of declining I would definitely contact support since I have never seen a "fight" or "defeat" quest that could not be declined.
 

juniperknome

Well-Known Member
are past the next the advanced scout s for the next chapter. you earn exactly the same expansions in research until you reach orcs and goblins. provinces get out of hand when you cross the next advance scout
 

kctanzen

Well-Known Member
did you skip the optional dead end squad size upgrade. after about 3 skipped you can't fight provinces at all

I would recommend ALWAYS skipping optional / dead end squad size techs.

The very small and short lived advantages these may give on the world map are grossly out weighed by the costs (troop losses and catering goods) you will find in tournament play. Over time, there will be many, many more tournament encounters than world map -- and the rewards from consistent tournament play really add up and improve the effectiveness and enjoyment of your city.
 

DeletedUser9247

Guest
I've passed on all optional SS techs and stopped scouting in halflings at 295 provinces. After all obligatory SS techs in the chapter, all surrounding hard provinces turned blue and I steamrolled through them with almost no losses. It put me at about 315 now and still having whole ring green, so I could fight if I wanted to. Moral of the story being- it's all doable.;)
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
It might help that I also invest in my "combat" AWs, such as Martial Monastery, Hero Forge and Neeedles
This is the key, IMO. Having 10 or so AW levels devoted to military AWs like the Monastery make a huge difference in fighting. I'm in the same boat as you and easily auto-fight provinces because I have military AWs; FS-mates are stuck (or have to wait on Orcs/Goods) because they have mostly city-building AWs (like Crystal Lighthouse, Tome of Secrets).
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
@Jonquilla

Some comments and suggestions for you

- if you think you can handle the higher difficulty on clearing provinces, go right on with your exploration. There's nothing technically bad with doing it and it gets you KP relics and expansions
- if you think clearing provinces will be too hard, just hold back on the exploration until your squad size catches up and difficulty falls to medium or less again

IMO the increased difficulty of clearing provinces are simply a kind of soft cap on the game. It's like in some MMORPGs where there is no max level, but past a certain level the xp required to level up is so ridiculously high that it effectively is a limit. Of course, as hardcore players in those games go ahead and continue xp-ing, so do some people in Elvenar continue to explore and clear provinces into the red zone. It's all down to your comfort level with the costs/penalties of clearing more and more provinces
 

Nyrva

Member
I have the same situation. But it seems there are two kinds of quests. Quests that seem optional, where you can "decline" if you don't want to do it, then there is another one above it usually where you don't have a choice. That quest will not go away until you solve it one way or another. And it's like if you don't have the means to solve it immediately, it has to sit there unless you can somehow come up with a way to solve it. And I am only in stage III of development with a ton of crystals, scrolls, and silk I have to raise just for research alone, let alone trying to now use those same things to negotiate. It almost puts you in a catch 22. And I don't want to buy diamonds to solve everything- I only want those for things that I really want (i.e. upgrading the builder's hut for example.) So it's sometimes hard to figure out what's the best way to go with some of this stuff.
 

shimmerfly

Well-Known Member
@Nyrva Yes it's kind of a balance or a dance all through the game. At least in my opinion. That's what helps make it challenging.
You build up some part of the game and along comes a quest that sits you back on your behind again and you have to work it out... or wait... or both.:D
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
But it seems there are two kinds of quests.
Yes, these are the two types of quests that will be with you throughout the game.
Mainline Quests:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-mainline-quests.4208/
Repeatable Quests:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-repeatable-quests.4225/
In general, you should find the Mainline Quests guide you through each Chapter and will take more time to complete. You'll get the 'research advanced scouts' for the next chapter quest each time you've completed all the mainline quests for the chapter you're currently in. So, don't worry if a quest in that line takes a minute to complete. I just try to make sure I get them done before the end of the chapter. That changes somewhat when you reach the Guest Race chapters (Ch6 Dwarves is the first one) as some of them call for guest race stuff, but you can learn about that when you get closer.
The repeatable quests are on a loop and I find them most useful for increasing coin and supply inventory in the early chapters. You can look at the rewards you get for doing certain tasks, and cycle them to the ones that fit your play style. For example, I really like the 'produce advanced tools X 6' quest. I generally run 3hr productions during the day anyway, so when I go to collect workshops, I just cycle until that quest is up before collecting, giving me some bonus coins and supplies for doing what I'd have done anyway. There's a lot to choose from, just find the ones that fit your style for the rewards you need the most.
let alone trying to now use those same things to negotiate
This hampered me in the beginning as well. I'd never played a combat game and avoided military for those first chapters. That was unfortunate because it's way cheaper to produce troops than goods, and if you can lessen the goods it takes to clear provinces you'll have more for research/upgrades/whatever. I started with this thread where you can learn a simple formula to make more use of your military:
Combat 101:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/combat-101.4968/
 
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Nyrva

Member
If I choose not to fight, but to negotiate, is it necessary then to worry about building up your armory, training grounds and barracks? I do have currently, 3 barracks at the moment, wondering if I should get rid of 2 of them for more goods production buildings, maybe crystals or scrolls, or those ones that seem harder to mass-produce. Any thoughts? And thank you. :)
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
You can absolutely negotiate your way through the game without ever fighting. I would presume you need to use the space for more factories beyond the 40 squares per tier recommended if you do a combo of cater/auto-fight.
The issue you will encounter is when you reach Ch 8 Orcs. A new resource is introduced called orcs, not to be confused with Orc military units. Orc military units are trained in your Training Grounds sharing the same training queue as your Barracks. Orcs are produced in your armories (the same way goods are made in factories) once they are upgraded to lvl 20; the tech for that is unlocked early in the Orc chapter. These orcs are asked for in negotiations beginning in the 10th ring out from your city along with goods. Hopefully a non-combat person (maybe @RosehawkATA if I remember correctly) can chime in on how many armories you'll need to keep you supplied in orcs. At the end of the chapter, you'll get access to Heroes' Forge, an Ancient Wonder that produces orcs, but I think it's still advisable to keep 1-2 armories.
 

DeletedUser2768

Guest
If I choose not to fight, but to negotiate, is it necessary then to worry about building up your armory, training grounds and barracks? I do have currently, 3 barracks at the moment, wondering if I should get rid of 2 of them for more goods production buildings, maybe crystals or scrolls, or those ones that seem harder to mass-produce. Any thoughts? And thank you. :)

I think it's the armories that you will need to build up. There comes a time where you will need Orcs to unlock provinces. Armories at level 20 make Orcs. You only need two though.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
I got by on one armory until I hit Orcs. Since then I've had two maxed out. You might need three if you're going to be bribing your way through all encounters.
 

bkbajb

Well-Known Member
I am in Chapter 10 - Sorcs
I fight in Tourny and regular provinces
I have researched every squad tech
I am over explored
I do fine
It might help that I also invest in my "combat" AWs, such as Martial Monastery, Hero Forge and Neeedles


Same with me.
 

nightrider1

Well-Known Member
slow down I'm waiting on next race with half my provinces in blue and a ranking in low 600.tooo much city and tooooo little planning;) and few diamonds dispensed
 
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