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    Your Elvenar Team

Expansions

ajqtrz

Chef
We had a Krispy Kreme, here in Milwaukee, but I think it closed. It was a great donut, but I think they oversaturated the market when they started putting them in stores.

@defiantoneks Where is Lamar's? I'll have to take a trip there.

AJ
 

MsScarlet

New Member
Purchased expansions ARE a matter of choice, not necessity. You choose what buildings to have in your city, and which you will forgo. It's the same as walking into a donut shop. You choose which donuts you will eat. You can't eat them all. Totally your choice. Yes, it's nice to have more, and yes, it sucks to have to choose one building over another, but that's the challenge of the game and it kind of makes it nice that we don't all have the same cookie cutter cities with all the same items. We are each unique, thanks to having to make decisions about what to place and what not to place. If expansions were always available, we all might just get everything and be all the same. What fun would that be?
I understand that the purchases are choice, but when you have empty space on your city map, but you get no expansions from encounters on the map, nor on the research trail, that's almost tantamount to extortion. People get and sell buildings all the time. All I'm saying is that the game should provide expansions through the encounters and/or research trail as long as there is empty space in a city. They should not stop at 65 encounters or after a certain higher chapter.
 

MsScarlet

New Member
Just looking on elvenstats, none of your cities are any further than chapter 14, so if you are out of province completion expansions, then you are way over-scouted. Also, every chapter from where you are to chapter 19, and likely beyond, add two new research expansions each. So you have plenty more to get, as long as you keep advancing your city. But if you are not advancing a city, then that is your choice, and more space will only come by spending diamonds.
It is not my city that is at that point yet, but it will be. I have other members who have reached the end of being able to get expansions without buying them. Elvenar also makes money by selling diamonds and quest needs, etc
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
All I'm saying is that the game should provide expansions through the encounters and/or research trail as long as there is empty space in a city. They should not stop at 65 encounters or after a certain higher chapter.

The problem with that is that every single expansion on the city map is already reserved to be either from research, exploration or premium. So there is no way for you to get them all for free because there are no unassigned expansions.
 

Alram

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that it's all the same.
You have to complete x number of provinces to get another expansion.
You have to complete x researches to get another expansion.
You have to win x number of diamonds to get another expansion.
They are all free.
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
by making some premium, they're designing it to make you either spend $$$ to do it fast, or stick around and keep playing to earn those diamonds. either way they are keeping your attention, which = money.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
The developers of this game should change their thoughts and deeds on kingdom expansions. As long as someone has empty land space in their kingdom, they should be able to get expansions on the research trail and/or map encounters. They should not be forced to purchase expansions because the map no longer gives them and the research trail no longer has them. Purchasing expansions should be a matter of choice, not necessity.
I agree that it would be nice if the expansions were free, more in the research tree, and more you can earn via exploration, but I also think the reason they aren't is that Inno has to pay some bills. And since Elvenar is not a "free to program and offer" game, they have to find reasonable ways to get that dough out of the fryer....my wallet. Expansions are probably very lucrative (compared to other things) because if they weren't we'd probably see them "on sale" with a lot more than a 10% discount. If the discount was 20% they might sell more, but they would then have to to bring in the revenues they usually get from expansions at a 10% discount and maybe the added sales would not be enough to do that. In other words, they are offered at 10% off and that's probably the "sweet spot" where profits per volume sold are the best.

But of course, if you want a radical idea, instead of selling anything they could tell us how much they pay for electricity for the game, how much for programming, help, and all the other things, and we could each make a contribution ... with a countdown until the thing is paid for? One would wonder how many would jump in to "rescue" the game when they saw the electric bill was in the red and the game about to go under? On the opposite side of it, though, one also has to wonder how many would stop contributing if they saw the electric bill was not only paid, but had a surplus? Maybe it's better they just try to sell us stuff we want and find ways to make us want it enough to spend the diamonds. ;>)

AJ
All expansions are free, it just takes time.

With enough dedication you can probably unlock all of them in about a year or so. it's just a matter of collecting free diamonds, loads od free diamonds.

I have unlocked all premium expansions and there are only 2 worlds on my main server.
Last time I bought an expansion has been like 6 years ago? when they raised expansion prizes from 2000 max tot what is it today 19500?? I have become the ultimate freebee and unlocked them all for free.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Small bit of math. Let's go!

The first 9 expansions sum to 14850 diamonds. If they aren't, the cost just skyrockets from there on out to the tune of 300-500 diamonds more than the previous expansion. The 10th expansion is 3300 diamonds. The 43rd expansion is 18500 diamonds. The interval is 500 diamonds after expansion 18 @ 6000 diamonds.

In about a year (52 weeks) at 275 diamonds apiece, that's 14300 diamonds.
Let's go ahead and presume that because you're in a Gold Spire fellowship, that pushes you to reach the top of the Spire each week. This is stretching it a bit, but I'm doing so to increase the benefit of the doubt.

Let's say that because of that push, you always reach the top and are eligible for the 125 diamonds you might get directly from the end boss. At a drop rate of 45% across 52 weeks, that averages out to (125 * 0.45 * 52) = 2925 diamonds.

Using similar logic, you can get an average of 5.2 Genies from that endboss. Let's round down to 5 because numbers. Those Genies at the top are rather lucrative: Each one across their 100 days of life gives you a 1% chance of 200 diamonds, a 2% chance at 100 diamonds, and a 5% chance at 50 diamonds. These odds are (as of the recent update) shown when you hover over the dice icon in the Genie's production panel. Let's round up to 200 total collections since you can collect once every 12 hours. Given this, you can average out to (200 * (200 * 0.01 + 100 * 0.02 + 50 * 0.05)) = 1300 diamonds. With five such moneymakers, that's 6500 diamonds in a year.

So that's a total of 23725 diamonds a year if you were topping spire AND only doing so if you weren't going to top it yourself if you weren't in a Gold Spire fellowship.

Now...

If you topped Spire anyway without such a fellowship and said fellowship maintained silver, that's just 125 diamonds from weekly with the other benefits still being maintained. You just lose out on (150 * 52) = 7800 diamonds yearly, which reduces your earnings from 23725 to 15925. A fair chunk but isn't exactly devastating (or perhaps it is devastating to someone else? To each their own, I suppose). This isn't even getting into the additional diamonds you could earn from MA or from some other smaller sources, which could possibly add up to quite a bit, but is far outside the scope of this wall of text, but is mentioned here because your overall performance in Spire could impact how much you get out of MA. Most likely. With some extreme edge cases being ignored by that statement. Edge cases which some of us would love to fall into (City made of Moonstone Libraries, and/or having a gazillion Red Panda Masters).

Anyhoo...

After the first 9 expansions (14850 diamonds), the next 5 expansions will cost you 16830 diamonds. Another year of saving? The next 3 expansions will cost you 15900 diamonds. The full premium expansion cost chart can be found here, near the bottom. Do not confuse that with the City Expansions chart, which also lists an optional diamond purchase cost.

In conclusion: Yes, you can buy some. But "a lot"? Press X to doubt
Unless you mean this in the most literal sense. In which a single expansion is, in fact, a lot
I earn much more each spire gives you about 420 diamonds a week in a gold fellowship.
This is 275 from gold fellowship and the rest from all the random little rewards. the 50/75/125 of the bosses and the 15-25 from the mini bosses.

52*420= 21840 diamonds

The genies you get much more they are also in the purple chests lets say you get 8 a year.
and of the 200 theoretical rewards you get a more realistic 180.
0.01*200*180=360 diamonds
0.02*100*180=360 diamond
0.05*50*180 = 450 diamonds
total: 1170 diamonds

8 genies * 1170 = 9360 diamonds

Max yearly income 1 single spire: 9360+21840 = 31200 diamonds

Did you notice I said 1 single spire?
You diamond wallet is shared between worlds.

Us server has 8 worlds
So your yearly diamond income on the Us server for 1 account from spires could be 8*31200 = 249600 diamonds.

This does not incluse other diamond sources like chapters,quests, crafting (is halved today) godess of wishes and whatever other sources we had / get

In the past I owned hundreds of wishing wells.

Does that remove your doubt???
 

ajqtrz

Chef
@CrazyWizard I agree that you could, theoretically, do it completely free. What I doubt is the time it would take would be as short as you describe. The mere fact that you have to be in a Gold fs means you've already spent years getting there. So the minimum time might be 4 years? Not that that nullifies your point. You can get there for free.

On the other hand, if you save all your diamonds for expansions you have no diamonds for anything else. That, too, is a choice but a difficult one to make when you might find a good reason or two to spend some diamonds...like adding another builder?

So, in summary, you are right but your calculations require a person to be a certain kind of player and/or take a lot of time. You have to be large enough and lucky enough to be in a gold fs, not cater (as that spends diamonds on 4th guesses, which are necessary at the boss levels at least), and you have to get to being large enough to participate in all the various things at a high level. So while it's theoretically possible and perhaps it's also been done, it's probably not going to be done by a lot of people.

AJ
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
^
for me, the farther i go in the game, the more magic buildings i win. to upgrade those you need either more blueprints (I only get one a week, i think) or more diamonds. and my BP usually go into the crafter so i can get restos since i cant upgrade my event buildings any other way. it all goes in a circle/cycle of choices.

at some point i may be where i dont need any more magic buildings, and newly won structures can replace older ones and bypass the upgrade stage. i'm not there yet.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
^
for me, the farther i go in the game, the more magic buildings i win. to upgrade those you need either more blueprints (I only get one a week, i think) or more diamonds. and my BP usually go into the crafter so i can get restos since i cant upgrade my event buildings any other way. it all goes in a circle/cycle of choices.

at some point i may be where i dont need any more magic buildings, and newly won structures can replace older ones and bypass the upgrade stage. i'm not there yet.
Yeah, it's a crawl. I am done with tech for my chap in my 2nd city but still need 8 more magic building upgrades and then I won another magic res last week, which means it'll be even longer slog next chapter. I'm not even in late chapter yet.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard I agree that you could, theoretically, do it completely free. What I doubt is the time it would take would be as short as you describe. The mere fact that you have to be in a Gold fs means you've already spent years getting there. So the minimum time might be 4 years? Not that that nullifies your point. You can get there for free.

On the other hand, if you save all your diamonds for expansions you have no diamonds for anything else. That, too, is a choice but a difficult one to make when you might find a good reason or two to spend some diamonds...like adding another builder?

So, in summary, you are right but your calculations require a person to be a certain kind of player and/or take a lot of time. You have to be large enough and lucky enough to be in a gold fs, not cater (as that spends diamonds on 4th guesses, which are necessary at the boss levels at least), and you have to get to being large enough to participate in all the various things at a high level. So while it's theoretically possible and perhaps it's also been done, it's probably not going to be done by a lot of people.

AJ
You have to have access to the spire and just sollicit at a gold fellowship.
Ands know what you do.

It takes 2-3 weeks? with some help (and some alternate form of getting goods so a good event building?) to get an account to top spire status.
You can just park that city at that stage and just annihalate the spire. you don't need super accounts.

I build mine when spire library was still easy to get and gott myself up and running fast.
It was the easiest account ever as I only needed to login once a day.

And yeah you need the dedication. but spire is 3 years old? we got wshing well madness for another year or so?
So you need about 4 years on 2 worlds to get all the diamonds you ever need for expansions.

A free2play approach is always one of time and dedication where a pay2play is about quick and easy.
Thats your choice, pay or work and play.
 

MsScarlet

New Member
All expansions are free, it just takes time.

With enough dedication you can probably unlock all of them in about a year or so. it's just a matter of collecting free diamonds, loads od free diamonds.

I have unlocked all premium expansions and there are only 2 worlds on my main server.
Last time I bought an expansion has been like 6 years ago? when they raised expansion prizes from 2000 max tot what is it today 19500?? I have become the ultimate freebee and unlocked them all for free.
how is that the case Crazy. My member is telling me that he cannot get anymore expansions without buying them. Are you saying you just use diamonds you've accumulated finishing some chapter (and maybe from spire and collections in academy)?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
how is that the case Crazy. My member is telling me that he cannot get anymore expansions without buying them. Are you saying you just use diamonds you've accumulated finishing some chapter (and maybe from spire and collections in academy)?
and wishing wells before spire existed.

btw maybe from spire? thats the best location for easy bucketloads of diamonds.

But yes, you can get a bashitcrazy amount of free diamonds in this game as I explained earlier.
I managed it at a server with 2 worlds, so with 8 worlds on US it's actually supereasy.

1654470632544.png
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
how is that the case Crazy. My member is telling me that he cannot get anymore expansions without buying them. Are you saying you just use diamonds you've accumulated finishing some chapter (and maybe from spire and collections in academy)?

I have heard of others doing this, it takes work but the point is the game has a diamond source and if you work and are patient you can earn them for free. Yes some are a certain type who will get it faster and be patient for long enough but the option is there. The other thing sto factor in as touched on is that all expansions are allocated to the areas of tech, world map and premium. Many people use $ to buy the premium ones and it isn't fair to those players who spent hard earned cash if free players can easily reach the same point, especially when those people are keeping the game going.

To me the issue here isn't that x expansions are designated as premium but the amount of free diamonds available in the game to buy those expansions. That in itself is debateable, but the suggestion I feel should be targeting that as the heart of the complaint not that some expansions are for premium currency only. I can't see a suggestion asking otherwise getting anywhere through the process, unsure a more diamonds one would either but it has a better chance (even if its 0.00001% better)
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
Fine. Let's do a more holistic approach. Or do we call this a "shotgun approach" ?

I actually spent the time to catalog all the rewards possible from spire. This is what I have seen as a chapter 9 player:
Code:
Notes:
1C: One crystal. 2C: Two Crystal/midboss. 3C: Three crystal/floorboss.
XX%MC : Percent chance of a mystery chest

Floor 1 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (??) supply, 20% 2CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 Diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 1 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 1 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 2000 frags
Floor 1 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 10% DArmorer, 10% Artifact, 10% MResidence, 30% (10%)portal, 40% 50 Diamonds

Floor 2 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 2 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: [UV] 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 2 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 2000 frags
Floor 2 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 5% MWorkshop, 10% Artifact, 10% TStation, 30% (10%)portal, 45% 75 Diamonds

Floor 3 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 3 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 3 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 5 sips
Floor 3 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 5% Artifact, 10% Genie, 20% DArmorer, 20% (25%)portal, 45% 125 diamonds

Other chests:
Purple MC: 10% Genie, 30% (50%)portal, 30% 3 Teleports, 30% artifact
Gold MC:   10% Artifact, 20% DArmorer, 20% (50%)portal, 50% 2x8h boost
Blue MC  : 10% (20%)supply, 10% (20%)coins, 15% (15%)portal, 25% 3CC, 40% 3x5h boost

From here, we do additional calculations:
Code:
1* Floor 1: (30% * 15 + 20% * 20 + 30% * 20) + (40% * 50) = 34.5
2* Floor 2: (30% * 15 + 20% * 20 + 30% * 20) + (45% * 75) = 48.25
3* Floor 3: (30% * 15 + 20% * 20 + 30% * 20) + (45% *125) = 70.75
4. Let collections over Genie lifetime = 200
5. Diamonds per Genie: (1% * 200 + 2% * 100 + 5% * 50) * COLLECTIONS = 1300
6. Let chance for purple chest be 10%
7. All Floors: 330% chance combined to get a chest.
8. Chance of getting genie from mystery chest over full run: 330% * 10% * 10% = 3.3%
9* Diamonds per Gold Spire run: 50 + 75 + 150 = 275
10. Total chance of Genie per Spire: 3.3% + 10% = 13.3% (This results slightly less than 7 Genies)
11* Total amount of diamonds per spire due to possible Genie: 13.3% * 1300 = 172.9
12: Total diamonds per spire run fully blended: (34.5+48.25+70.75+275+172.9) = 601 diamonds
13. Average amount of spell fragments: 500*4*3*60% + 1000*4*3*60% + 1250*4*3*20% + 2000*2*55% = 13600
14. Average amount of catalysts: 2*20% + 3*20%*3 = 7.0
15. Catalysts from spire completion: 22
16. Total catalysts: 29
17. lv 5 MA production CC: 28 a week.
18. Value of SF and CC to VV conversion 300/1 to 3; 1200/6 to 15, etc. Limiting factor assumed CC.
19. 29 * 3 = 87 vision vapor per Spire run.
20. Overall chance of 500 diamonds: 10%*2 + 20%*2 over 10 objects: 6%
21. Diamonds average per 100VV: 30 diamonds
22. Diamonds average per Spire run due to MO: 30 * (87/100) = 26.1
22* Total diamonds due to gold spire weekly: 601+26.1 = 627.1
23* Total diamond income in a year: 32609.2
24. Across 8 accounts? 260873.6

Diamonds as the result of blasting through chapters?
Uncheckable at the moment (Elven Gems is down).
Assumed 200 per chapter after 4, played to chapter 15 (reasonable speedrunning techniques)
2200 diamonds.
8 accounts: 17600.

And how here's data involving the costs of expansions. Thanks OpenOffice.

1654473097353.png


If one were dedicated enough to do all that work in service of one account, having no other expenses (which is unlikely; I figure a lot of people would spend some diamonds in order to reach the top), you could conceivably obtain 37 or 38 out of 43 purchasable expansions. In a year.

---
I'm still doubting but now for different reasons, but the other post that had the math rubbed me the wrong way for some reason and over the course of today, I now know why.

I earn much more each spire gives you about 420 diamonds a week in a gold fellowship.
This is 275 from gold fellowship and the rest from all the random little rewards. the 50/75/125 of the bosses and the 15-25 from the mini bosses.

52*420= 21840 diamonds

The genies you get much more they are also in the purple chests lets say you get 8 a year.
and of the 200 theoretical rewards you get a more realistic 180.

0.01*200*180=360 diamonds
0.02*100*180=360 diamond
0.05*50*180 = 450 diamonds
total: 1170 diamonds

8 genies * 1170 = 9360 diamonds

Max yearly income 1 single spire: 9360+21840 = 31200 diamonds

Did you notice I said 1 single spire?
You diamond wallet is shared between worlds.

Us server has 8 worlds

So your yearly diamond income on the Us server for 1 account from spires could be 8*31200 = 249600 diamonds.

This does not incluse other diamond sources like chapters,quests, crafting (is halved today) godess of wishes and whatever other sources we had / get

In the past I owned hundreds of wishing wells.

Does that remove your doubt???
Emphasis mine. You state the "reasonableness" of the practical aspects of collecting from the Genie yet continuing on with the even more absurd notion than the theoretical maximum collections of Genie that one would, not just play to the point where you're in a Gold spire fellowship, but do so to reach the top in all 8 worlds combined (in a continuous and/or sustained effort)

At that point, you might as well go get a second job and work the some odd 230 hours at federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour at the moment of posting) to cover the missing 7 extra worlds. Even fewer hours if you had a higher paying job, which just makes that option sweeter.

Or not, if you were trying to prove a point. Although I'll admit this one:

The whole point of this exercise is to prove a point. Whose point or what point that is... is up to all of us to guess. Is it strictly possible? Yes. That is no longer in doubt. Is it the best way for you? Who knows? Only the reader can answer that for themselves! For me, personally, trying to play the game in that manner is not fun, nor is trying to prove that point in deed rather than in word. If others find fun in that, then by all means! Go for it! I'll be cheering you on while stewing in my own mediocre gameplay

EDIT: Addressing the Wishing Wells argument: That doesn't at help people without the ability to ever access them at all. So they're not being included.
 
Last edited:

MsScarlet

New Member
I have heard of others doing this, it takes work but the point is the game has a diamond source and if you work and are patient you can earn them for free. Yes some are a certain type who will get it faster and be patient for long enough but the option is there. The other thing sto factor in as touched on is that all expansions are allocated to the areas of tech, world map and premium. Many people use $ to buy the premium ones and it isn't fair to those players who spent hard earned cash if free players can easily reach the same point, especially when those people are keeping the game going.

To me the issue here isn't that x expansions are designated as premium but the amount of free diamonds available in the game to buy those expansions. That in itself is debateable, but the suggestion I feel should be targeting that as the heart of the complaint not that some expansions are for premium currency only. I can't see a suggestion asking otherwise getting anywhere through the process, unsure a more diamonds one would either but it has a better chance (even if its 0.00001% better)
Thanks Mykan. I do understand that the company and it's employees need to be able to keep the lights on. People can't work for free. I think that's why they started putting advertisements on Gems and some parts of the game site. Selling packages for the events might be working somewhat, along with the sale of diamonds. Maybe they could consider making an expansion as a prize in quests or FA chest. Every now and then. Thanks again for your input.
 

MsScarlet

New Member
Fine. Let's do a more holistic approach. Or do we call this a "shotgun approach" ?

I actually spent the time to catalog all the rewards possible from spire. This is what I have seen as a chapter 9 player:
Code:
Notes:
1C: One crystal. 2C: Two Crystal/midboss. 3C: Three crystal/floorboss.
XX%MC : Percent chance of a mystery chest

Floor 1 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (??) supply, 20% 2CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 Diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 1 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 1 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 2000 frags
Floor 1 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 10% DArmorer, 10% Artifact, 10% MResidence, 30% (10%)portal, 40% 50 Diamonds

Floor 2 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 2 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: [UV] 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 2 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 2000 frags
Floor 2 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 5% MWorkshop, 10% Artifact, 10% TStation, 30% (10%)portal, 45% 75 Diamonds

Floor 3 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 3 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 3 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 5 sips
Floor 3 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 5% Artifact, 10% Genie, 20% DArmorer, 20% (25%)portal, 45% 125 diamonds

Other chests:
Purple MC: 10% Genie, 30% (50%)portal, 30% 3 Teleports, 30% artifact
Gold MC:   10% Artifact, 20% DArmorer, 20% (50%)portal, 50% 2x8h boost
Blue MC  : 10% (20%)supply, 10% (20%)coins, 15% (15%)portal, 25% 3CC, 40% 3x5h boost

From here, we do additional calculations:
Code:
1* Floor 1: (30% * 15 + 20% * 20 + 30% * 20) + (40% * 50) = 34.5
2* Floor 2: (30% * 15 + 20% * 20 + 30% * 20) + (45% * 75) = 48.25
3* Floor 3: (30% * 15 + 20% * 20 + 30% * 20) + (45% *125) = 70.75
4. Let collections over Genie lifetime = 200
5. Diamonds per Genie: (1% * 200 + 2% * 100 + 5% * 50) * COLLECTIONS = 1300
6. Let chance for purple chest be 10%
7. All Floors: 330% chance combined to get a chest.
8. Chance of getting genie from mystery chest over full run: 330% * 10% * 10% = 3.3%
9* Diamonds per Gold Spire run: 50 + 75 + 150 = 275
10. Total chance of Genie per Spire: 3.3% + 10% = 13.3% (This results slightly less than 7 Genies)
11* Total amount of diamonds per spire due to possible Genie: 13.3% * 1300 = 172.9
12: Total diamonds per spire run fully blended: (34.5+48.25+70.75+275+172.9) = 601 diamonds
13. Average amount of spell fragments: 500*4*3*60% + 1000*4*3*60% + 1250*4*3*20% + 2000*2*55% = 13600
14. Average amount of catalysts: 2*20% + 3*20%*3 = 7.0
15. Catalysts from spire completion: 22
16. Total catalysts: 29
17. lv 5 MA production CC: 28 a week.
18. Value of SF and CC to VV conversion 300/1 to 3; 1200/6 to 15, etc. Limiting factor assumed CC.
19. 29 * 3 = 87 vision vapor per Spire run.
20. Overall chance of 500 diamonds: 10%*2 + 20%*2 over 10 objects: 6%
21. Diamonds average per 100VV: 30 diamonds
22. Diamonds average per Spire run due to MO: 30 * (87/100) = 26.1
22* Total diamonds due to gold spire weekly: 601+26.1 = 627.1
23* Total diamond income in a year: 32609.2
24. Across 8 accounts? 260873.6

Diamonds as the result of blasting through chapters?
Uncheckable at the moment (Elven Gems is down).
Assumed 200 per chapter after 4, played to chapter 15 (reasonable speedrunning techniques)
2200 diamonds.
8 accounts: 17600.

And how here's data involving the costs of expansions. Thanks OpenOffice.

View attachment 12766

If one were dedicated enough to do all that work in service of one account, having no other expenses (which is unlikely; I figure a lot of people would spend some diamonds in order to reach the top), you could conceivably obtain 37 or 38 out of 43 purchasable expansions. In a year.

---
I'm still doubting but now for different reasons, but the other post that had the math rubbed me the wrong way for some reason and over the course of today, I now know why.


Emphasis mine. You state the "reasonableness" of the practical aspects of collecting from the Genie yet continuing on with the even more absurd notion than the theoretical maximum collections of Genie that one would, not just play to the point where you're in a Gold spire fellowship, but do so to reach the top in all 8 worlds combined (in a continuous and/or sustained effort)

At that point, you might as well go get a second job and work the some odd 230 hours at federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour at the moment of posting) to cover the missing 7 extra worlds. Even fewer hours if you had a higher paying job, which just makes that option sweeter.

Or not, if you were trying to prove a point. Although I'll admit this one:

The whole point of this exercise is to prove a point. Whose point or what point that is... is up to all of us to guess. Is it strictly possible? Yes. That is no longer in doubt. Is it the best way for you? Who knows? Only the reader can answer that for themselves! For me, personally, trying to play the game in that manner is not fun, nor is trying to prove that point in deed rather than in word. If others find fun in that, then by all means! Go for it! I'll be cheering you on while stewing in my own mediocre gameplay

EDIT: Addressing the Wishing Wells argument: That doesn't at help people without the ability to ever access them at all. So they're not being included.
wow Zoof. this was quire an effort. Thanks for putting al this together and your input on all of this.
 
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