• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Expiring Millitray Buildings. Why only 3 types inno?

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
I posted this question before but it seems to have gotten archived with no answer; not sure why. Im really curious to hear the answer from inno on this decision. It bothers me constantly not knowing.

I have no doubt this has been asked before, but i couldnt find where. So ill it ask again. Why are there only three different military expiring buildings?
We have the 'Unleashed unit upgrade' for health, 'Magnificent mage multiplier' more mages, and 'Enhanced light ranged' for light ranged.
Which just makes me wonder constantly... why are there not a version of these buildings for light melee, heavy melee or heavy ranged? Seems odd to stop half way through the list.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
The thing is, you have to start somewhere. I mean, you lay out a plan and there is stage 1, stage 2 and so on. So maybe, and I think it's a good guess, there will be other military buildings. I do note they seem to have dropped the UUU. I haven't seen it offered in crafting for a month or more. Maybe it's being "replaced" by the Dwarven Armourer? And the Wishing Well seems to be gone as they replace it with the Genie? But I think the offering of expiring military boosts buildings will eventually grow to one of each type, or maybe one for each of the 15 troop types?

In the end, it's a good question, but I doubt anybody will tell us much in advance and one day we'll just come in and find a new one, two, or three available. Sooner rather than later, but of course, that may be just wishful thinking.

AJ
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
I think that the frequency for occurrence depends on how often you use an item; sometimes it favors items you enjoy and sometimes it avoids them.
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
I do note they seem to have dropped the UUU. I haven't seen it offered in crafting for a month or more. Maybe it's being "replaced" by the Dwarven Armourer?
I hope not. That is one of my favorite buildings to craft. Has anybody noticed one in their MA lately?
I havnt been keeping a percise eye on them to remember the date of the lat time i saw one.. but i have seen them in the last month. I dont know if the rate of appearance has changed, but they are there.
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
Probably needs to be turned into a real suggestions instead of a question, but I agree that there are opportunities missing for buffing, in particular light melee need to be shown some love.

Honestly, at this point its not even a suggestion. Its been suggested before. For what ever reason inno has kept the buildings at only those three. And thats there desision. Im not even complaining about that here. - I just wnat to know WHY! What led them to making that decision...
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Its been suggested before. For what ever reason inno has kept the buildings at only those three.
I wasn't aware that a suggestion had been forwarded to the devs for this. Can you link the forwarded thread? (either from here or from Beta; I can't find one either place)
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I know it's been talked about. I don't think there was ever a formal suggestion made. I think that a suggestion which actually includes a little lore about why the building exists and it's nature is probably going to get a better receipt from the devs than just "Can haz boost Pleez?"
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@Dominionofgod

The following is how I heard the whole thing went down. My sources though, are probably not reliable and the resembelense of the following to actual events and people is highly suspect. Nevertheless, I do pass it on to your discerining ears in the name of answering the question you've ask since, as you not, no real answer has been forthcoming from those who would be in a position to know.

"It happened on a Monday. Shelia (not her real name, of course) was sitting at her desk, pondering the new crafting abilities of the game when it hit her. "We could have some building boost the players fighting abilities.!" Quickly she began sketching out her ideas. Just as quickly she began programming those ideas. It was fun and exciting! So much so that, by Wednesday she had the ERL and the MMM pretty much done, and was nearly finished with the UUU. She hadn't told anybody about her ideas, wishing to surprise them with her brilliance so she was getting excited. There was a meeting on Friday and she planned to present them, fully completed, at that meeting. She couldn't wait!

Thursday rolled by and that morning, though, she was told to clean out her desk because her services were no longer needed. She was surprised as all her evaluations were fine to outstanding. And she was at her desk longer than most other people in her department. "What gives?" she wondered. So she looked into it an found, not too surprisingly, somebody higher up had discovered her work and claimed it for themselves. They had, in fact presented it to their boss on Wednesday night! Needless to say Shelia did not take this sitting down but stood up, marched down to her boss and discussed the whole thing. Her boss was sympathetic but, alas, it's hard to prove a file was stolen when you keep it on the main server in a public folder!

So on Thursday night Shelia angrily cleaned out her desk. But before she left she made one more "adjustment" to the system and insured her three creations would go live the next update. They did and the players loved them. Of course the co-worker who stole her work got the credit, but she also got the job of coming up with the rest of the set -- a job she has been flailing away at for a long, long time with little success. Shelia's boss is now pushing to have THAT person given the "your services are no longer needed," and to bring Shelia back and give her credit for a great idea."

We shall see if it ever works out that way.

Like I said, this is how I heard it. It may be, and probably is, completely fictitious, but hey, at least you now have something you can pretend is an explanation, right? LOL

AJ
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
I wasn't aware that a suggestion had been forwarded to the devs for this. Can you link the forwarded thread? (either from here or from Beta; I can't find one either place)
I have no idea if its been forwarded to the devs or not. I jsut know ppl have mentioned it before me. - If it hasnt been forwarded to the devs.... then... someone forward it the devs!!! If nothing else, i want an explanation..
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@Dominionofgod
Up until March 2020 there was no path to get ideas/suggestions to the devs from this forum; the only path available was from the beta forums. This forum is primarily player driven with volunteer moderators. Those mods worked hard and got a path for us, but the devs have very strict requirements for how it must be done for them to even look at it. Those requirements are outlined here. I would expect a great deal of support for a fully fleshed out suggestion for these buildings :)
Unfortunately, this is a one way path. The devs will not commit to responding to us at all (though in the rare instance the mods hear something back, they do let us know). I know it's a lot of work to get the idea through the process and then not know how it was received, but most of us are thankful there is a path at all now. There are posters here who are more knowledgeable than I am about game design, coding, etc. who seem to always try to help bring up the issues that need addressing before the original post is ready for a vote. The devs only look at the original post, not the discussion posts and the original post must be in its final form before it goes up for a vote. If you choose to try this, I'm confident there'll be lots of helpers/input.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
The thing is, you have to start somewhere. I mean, you lay out a plan and there is stage 1, stage 2 and so on. So maybe, and I think it's a good guess, there will be other military buildings. I do note they seem to have dropped the UUU. I haven't seen it offered in crafting for a month or more. Maybe it's being "replaced" by the Dwarven Armourer? And the Wishing Well seems to be gone as they replace it with the Genie? But I think the offering of expiring military boosts buildings will eventually grow to one of each type, or maybe one for each of the 15 troop types?

In the end, it's a good question, but I doubt anybody will tell us much in advance and one day we'll just come in and find a new one, two, or three available. Sooner rather than later, but of course, that may be just wishful thinking.

AJ
Nah, the UUU hasn't been quietly retired. I was wondering that myself when I'd gone quite a while without seeing one to craft, but I see them still every now and then. I think they're just rare to appear given whatever algorithm Inno uses to generate the options.

The Wishing Well has been made a lot more rare, almost certainly because it was too easy to collect a whole bunch of them and then get a non-trivial amount of free diamonds in a relatively short time. Add in that you can do this on every game world with a single account, and your main city could have a whole lot of diamonds to play with without ever having to buy any. I don't think the Genie really had anything to do with it, since that's pretty rare as well and some of the collections are different.

Anyway, I'd like to see boost buildings for the other three unit types as well. Especially since the two we have are for unit types that are definitely fine without extra damage. Melee units on the other hand pretty much suck (especially light melee) and could use the extra help.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
The Wishing Well has been made a lot more rare, almost certainly because it was too easy to collect a whole bunch of them and then get a non-trivial amount of free diamonds in a relatively short time. Add in that you can do this on every game world with a single account, and your main city could have a whole lot of diamonds to play with without ever having to buy any. I don't think the Genie really had anything to do with it, since that's pretty rare as well and some of the collections are different.

Actually, after reading the Q&A on their Facebook Live last week for the event, every time someone asked about Wishing Wells, the standard reply was they were replaced by the Genie. They really want people playing the Spire.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
To be fair, a light melee combat and a heavy melee combat booster are not as "good"
Light melee could even be considered near useless when used in conjuction with units like sword dancer / barbarian, and might have use with dogs only.

At the same time it would muddle the waters and reduce the frequency the other 3 buildings would appear in the crafting menu.
Adding those 2 combat buildings we are missing could therefore be considered as a nerf, nog a gain.

edit: forgot the heavy range, that one would be a killer one, in fact it might make "unlimited provincies" easily possible in the new format as well.
So maybe that one would be a little bit to OP
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Because 5 day military bldgs expire..... thats right expire, and must be replaced.....
The MA could deticate 1 slot to Military expire'n bldgs, that would allow a type
for each type of troops... LM, HM, LR, HR, Mage .... to be created and offered,
without ANY detriment to the current types.....

The other attraction of this, is that unlike overpowered perm bldgs, that eventually
get nerf'd, the 5 day expire'n bldgs could be rapidly chgd if need be, but due to the fact
they must be replaced each week, the odds of that are slim.....

Edit** - I would also cap the stacking ability to (4) total.....
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
To be fair, a light melee combat and a heavy melee combat booster are not as "good"
Light melee could even be considered near useless when used in conjuction with units like sword dancer / barbarian, and might have use with dogs only.
Whether or not that's true of buildings exactly like the existing ones, it assumes those buildings would be exactly like existing ones. A melee troop boost wouldn't hive to be a damage add.
It could (though coding might be more than they want undertake)
  • Add one hex of reach to their attacks or movement, or both.
  • Give them strikeback-4
  • Give them two attacks.
And even if all it did was the a damage buff, it doesn't have to be the same as that given to casters or light-ranged. it could be:
  • +75
  • +100 but for two or three days instead of one.
  • +50 to all troops for five days, in effect making it a temporary fire phoenix (and not have it stack with the phoenix, so it is nothing more than the equivalent of two or three pet-food for a person with a phoenix)
There are many, many options that would allow spreading the military-buff-love to other troops.
 

Fayeanne

Well-Known Member
A little while back I had written up a suggestion in the proper format for a Light Melee boost building (because Light Melee are the weakest unit type by far), but with the new tournament changes coming, it seems the single-unit-type boost buildings are going to be far less useful, so...enh.

I like the idea of being able to add things like movement range, attack range, initiative (higher initiative would greatly help: they'd at least be able to get a first hit in before being obliterated off the map)... but the problem comes in considering how to stack the boosts from multiple buildings. For example, movement range and initiative very quickly reach a maximum useful value and it wouldn't benefit to add any more. Stacking attack range would turn them into Light Ranged hybrid units. Stacking number of attacks...yikes. Can you imagine a Light Melee attacking 10 times per turn? Granted, one could solve this by just saying the building's boosts don't stack. But all of the others do, so... *shrug*
 
Top