• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

FA: Add a fourth map and adjust the pit

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Here's my suggestion for the FA.

1: Add a fourth map to the FA, so that the time in the mindless pit is shortened. The map can be slightly tougher than the last, so that some fellowships would not complete all maps. Many would, so that's okay. It would give people an additional goal (with prizes, of course.)

2: Turn the pit into a real pit, where each badge is worth a certain amount of points and you just throw in anything and add to the score by that specific amount. (Naturally, statues would be worth a heck of a lot more than elvarian guards.)



Pros: By doing this, people don't get bored out of their minds and start to hate the FA. Players don't get "stuck" on the pit when no one has any statues left and no time to make them, and then give up. This would make the FA super-dee-duper exciting from START to FINISH!

Cons: Extra programming, of course. You would also have to guard against crashes, especially at the end when everyone would be throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the pit.



Discussion?
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
1 item I think would be helpful is to limit the pit to the last 24 hours of the FA only in addition to your changes. This would eliminate the same top teams from dominating the FA ranks and Force them to play like the rest of us do. No more finishing the 3 stages in 1 day and spending the rest of the time Pitting to victory.

And yes I know I will draw the ire of the top-ranked teams but I am thinking of all the FS teams that participate.

Ed
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Sounds great to have a pit of everything if we could get there. We’re a young fellowship from different time zones. Why can’t we put our items in a fellowship storage? Coordinating with fellows who are asleep, working or spending time with their families makes it really hard to get anywhere. Of course I’m tkful for our star players but even those get burned out. I’m to the point where I’m frustrated with the fellowship adventure and plea with the developers/marketers to make it more fun and not so impossible to advance.
I can sympathize with the frustration. I've always hated the pit because you are chained to it even if you don't have anything to put in it. It might turn over any minute and your items are needed. So you are sitting there watching paint dry and hoping someone will come in with the right things to turn it over.

If the pit were truly a pit with anything thrown in, then I'd be there all the time anyway, but not because I felt chained to it but because I wanted to be there, churning out badges to my heart's content. Doing something because you want to is always more fun than doing something because you feel you have to, and hate it.

Star players do get burned out ... I have a star player who literally saved the FA last time and who opted out this time.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
1 item I think would be helpful is to limit the pit to the last 24 hours of the FA only in addition to your changes. This would eliminate the same top teams from dominating the FA ranks and Force them to play like the rest of us do. No more finishing the 3 stages in 1 day and spending the rest of the time Pitting to victory.

And yes I know I will draw the ire of the top-ranked teams but I am thinking of all the FS teams that participate.

Ed
I agree, Ed. If there were a fourth map, and a slightly harder one, it would help to avoid that scenario. A fourth map that was harder might take 2 days to complete even by the top fellowships.
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
I agree, Ed. If there were a fourth map, and a slightly harder one, it would help to avoid that scenario. A fourth map that was harder might take 2 days to complete even by the top fellowships.
My only concern is if it is too hard it might be problematic for the vast majority of FS's to complete or the rewards need to be commensurate with the difficulty.

Ed
 

Killy-

Active Member
2: Turn the pit into a real pit, where each badge is worth a certain amount of points and you just throw in anything and add to the score by that specific amount. (Naturally, statues would be worth a heck of a lot more than elvarian guards.)
I don't see how one would balance that and to think Inno would be the one to balance it, pls don't.
 

Lady Dastardly

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of a fourth map, but only if the artifact prizes remain in their current stages. It can be difficult for small FS's to get through even 1 path per map now, so making that part harder for them wouldn't be great.
1 item I think would be helpful is to limit the pit to the last 24 hours of the FA only in addition to your changes. This would eliminate the same top teams from dominating the FA ranks and Force them to play like the rest of us do. No more finishing the 3 stages in 1 day and spending the rest of the time Pitting to victory.
You do realize that those top teams will have the badges anyway, regardless of when you let them add them. It's not as though they are going to stop making badges just because they don't have anywhere to use them yet. And I can assure you, they have the communication and coordination necessary to get their members on to dump most of their badges.
Turn the pit into a real pit, where each badge is worth a certain amount of points and you just throw in anything and add to the score by that specific amount. (Naturally, statues would be worth a heck of a lot more than elvarian guards.)
While I think this is a nice idea in theory, I feel like this is VERY exploitable, especially by the top teams. Even if you try to account for badge difficulty. Right now teams don't focus on making things like guards and wonders because they pile up automatically. If you give them a value, even a nominal one, now there is a reason to crank them out, just like the production badges. For a city with multiple brown bears, a high level Simia, and time & supply boosters, I hate to think how many guards they could make if they had a reason to.
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
I like the idea of a fourth map, but only if the artifact prizes remain in their current stages. It can be difficult for small FS's to get through even 1 path per map now, so making that part harder for them wouldn't be great.

You do realize that those top teams will have the badges anyway, regardless of when you let them add them. It's not as though they are going to stop making badges just because they don't have anywhere to use them yet. And I can assure you, they have the communication and coordination necessary to get their members on to dump most of their badges.

While I think this is a nice idea in theory, I feel like this is VERY exploitable, especially by the top teams. Even if you try to account for badge difficulty. Right now teams don't focus on making things like guards and wonders because they pile up automatically. If you give them a value, even a nominal one, now there is a reason to crank them out, just like the production badges. For a city with multiple brown bears, a high level Simia, and time & supply boosters, I hate to think how many guards they could make if they had a reason to.
I am under no illusion of this as I have been on a High-level FS that would rank in the top 10 most times. So I know how it operates and I am just offering ideas to help, clearly 24 hours would make a difference as opposed to 4 or 5 days of the pit don't you think?

Ed
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I like the idea of a fourth map, but only if the artifact prizes remain in their current stages. It can be difficult for small FS's to get through even 1 path per map now, so making that part harder for them wouldn't be great.

You do realize that those top teams will have the badges anyway, regardless of when you let them add them. It's not as though they are going to stop making badges just because they don't have anywhere to use them yet. And I can assure you, they have the communication and coordination necessary to get their members on to dump most of their badges.

While I think this is a nice idea in theory, I feel like this is VERY exploitable, especially by the top teams. Even if you try to account for badge difficulty. Right now teams don't focus on making things like guards and wonders because they pile up automatically. If you give them a value, even a nominal one, now there is a reason to crank them out, just like the production badges. For a city with multiple brown bears, a high level Simia, and time & supply boosters, I hate to think how many guards they could make if they had a reason to.
On the first part, I agree. The artifacts would need to remain where they are. It would have to be new prizes in the fourth map.

Yes, I agree with you that they will have the badges, but that's no different than it is now, I think. And as far as them churning out Elvarian guard badges with multiple brown bears. I have a couple of ideas on this. First of all, just how many people were able to get more than one brown bear? The only time they would have been able to do that is during the first event it was offered. How many of the people who got more than one are still playing? I think we're talking about a very limited number of people, and I think the risk to the FA would be minimal. Second, yeah, they might be able to use a high level simia or their high levels to make tons of guard badges. But lower level people can make tons of bracelets at a very cheap rate, and if you make bracelets worth more, I think it would balance out. Just a thought.
 

Killy-

Active Member
@Darielle I have 400 guard badges with only one brown bear and I didn't even try to do make any, so how much should they be worth compared to other badges? What are Dwarven Brewery Badges worth? Imagine a world where the best way to win the FA is to produce that stuff en masse (literally hell).
 

Rainfall Fury

New Member
Thanks for your sympathy Darielle!
We will keep working at it. Would like to see a pit sometime.

“….Sounds great to have a pit of everything if we could get there. We’re a young fellowship from different time zones. Why can’t we put our items in a fellowship storage? Coordinating with fellows who are asleep, working or spending time with their families makes it really hard to get anywhere. Of course I’m tkful for our star players but even those get burned out. I’m to the point where I’m frustrated with the fellowship adventure and plea with the developers/marketers to make it more fun and not so impossible to advance.”
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
@Darielle I have 400 guard badges with only one brown bear and I didn't even try to do make any, so how much should they be worth compared to other badges? What are Dwarven Brewery Badges worth? Imagine a world where the best way to win the FA is to produce that stuff en masse (literally hell).
Maybe they could be done like the Golden Bracelets in reverse, worth less as the city size grows?

Ed
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I've been here more than 2 1/2 years, and I still can't produce enough troops to make a ton of Elvarian Guards. For me, it wouldn't be an incentive. But I know there are some who have dedicated themselves to fighting and producing troops, and have a dozen armories compared to my 4 leveled. But I think there will always be some people who are better off in a FA than others, and you can't really change that. There will always be some with a ton of room while I'm stuck with ships that can't be teleported in Chapter 17. The newer players will always seem "lucky" that they can produce bracelets so cheaply or have guest races that are so small and can be teleported (except for portal). The older players have lots of advantages in all events, such as when asked to produce MA goods.

I think having a pit that was truly a pit would level the playing field, not because the super fellowships couldn't get a higher score; of course they could. But because the newer players would have a way to keep going without getting stuck, which would be more fun in the long run. No one likes to get stuck and have to give up, while you see your number go down, down down with no way to change it.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
clearly 24 hours would make a difference as opposed to 4 or 5 days of the pit don't you think?
Nope. I agree with @Lady Dastardly that all it does is delay the use of their avalanche of badges. It also makes zero sense that a FS that can finish 3 maps in one day has to twiddle their thumbs for 4 days because other people move slower and don't want to twiddle their thumbs in the Pit for 1 or 2 days.

From reading various conversations about FAs, the FSs struggling to finish all 3 maps are still strategizing to complete the maps. FS still struggling to finish all 3 maps should not even be worried or concerned about the Pit. The top FA fellowships can finish all 3 paths on all 3 stages so they are planning for the Pit from the get go. That is the key difference. People complain about having leftover badges, but top FA fellowships intentionally PLAN for leftover badges in the Pit, not for the maps. They know ranking is determined by the Pit so their single focus is to make enough badges to NOT get stuck in the Pit.

If fellowships are limping and crawling to the Pit, it's not the Pit's fault they then get stuck. To me, it's kind of backwards to limp your way to the Pit and then want to change the Pit because there aren't enough leftover badges to last. The FS has to first get better at breezing through all 3 paths on all 3 maps first, then strategize for endurance in the Pit. If a FS only does one path each stage, they won't score enough points either by forgoing so many checkpoints. Therefore, until FS can walk, don't try to run. That's how you get burnout. Everyone knows the prizes are as awful as the new junk they've stuffed in the Mystery Object chest in MA. Top FA groups will go all out even if they give out Winter Lampions though. If a FS doesn't want to put forth the effort, especially if they think it's not worthy of the prizes, there is no shame in doing one path each stage to claim all the artifacts and be done with it. Most of the top FA groups are doing it for the team camaraderie so they are liking the team experience. If a FS is not enjoying the FA experience, pushing them to do more won't get them to like it more.

Lastly, often not talked about in FA discussions is all the other things you do in the game that require just as much or more effort that will help your FS improve in FAs. Two cities with the same chapter, buildings, wonders, and shantytown means the city doing 10k in tourney and full Spire is going to have a whole lot more badges than the one doing 100 in tourney and no Spire. Guess which player will have more badges for the Pit if they also have equal time limitations too? My 15-chest FS still has to craft Druids and Witch Hats in the MA. My 19-chest FS can win them in tourney encounters. A gold spire is like 7 free druids x 25 in a full FS. And good luck getting a large FA spread in with zero teleports, which can only be won from the Spire. Becoming a FA powerhouse is a yearlong work in progress because you have to work on all the little things first and then put them all together. Otherwise the FA will mirror back all the weaknesses in the FS, whether it's not enough tourney, not enough Spire, not enough communication, not efficient use of space, poor leadership, etc. The short of it is a casual FS still has no chance to compete in FAs seriously regardless of where you move the goal post unless they're willing to put in more effort overall.
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
The amount of troops you need for a badge is already adjusted to the chapter.
My reply was to the idea of dumping all badges into a hole and each having a specific worth, and that Guard badges for some, in higher chapters, are not an issue and hundreds are possible.

Ed
 

Killy-

Active Member
My reply was to the idea of dumping all badges into a hole and each having a specific worth, and that Guard badges for some, in higher chapters, are not an issue and hundreds are possible.

Ed
You can make hundreds in lower chapters too. It is more about playstyle than about chapter.
 
Top