Fair Trades?

[SoulsSilhouette]

We, the unwilling, are led by the unknowing, to do the impossible.....
For the ungrateful

What is possible is that EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who dislikes cross-tier trades, DO NOT PLACE THEM. DO NOT TAKE THEM. Be a force of positive change. JUST STOP.

Thats what I have done. Yes, there are profiteers out there but if you do not allow them to take their PROFIT from you, and you tell two friends and they tell two friends, and so on and so on and so on, then maybe you will see less of it in your trader.

There is another way that INNO can eliminate the 'unfair trades'... impose a fee to post it.

 

[Ashrem]

Better if you quoted in context or included the entire statement, but whatever makes you happy.

Quoting in context means a wall of text, most of which is not relevant to where you said the thing for which you required proof. The fact Soggy took the time to track down more than one quote indicates to me that he felt like it was worth addressing that he felt you were telling him to ignore it an move on.

That is a list of places where one person's words were easily interpreted as telling someone else what to do. We all do it now and then, and I don't think either Soggy or I feels any animosity toward you, Ed. I started with a joking comment about you suggesting someone else not do something similar to what you were doing. I've been trying to communicate that this is an open forum where each of us should be able to discuss the things we want to discuss. People can ignore entire topics, without anyone having to be hinted at (at least mmore than once or twice by one person) that they should stop talking about it.

In general, on public forums when someone says we've done something, it's probably worth looking very carefully at what we've said in our last dozen posts rather than assuming they're wrong because it wasn't our intent. In the long run, I've found the occasional "Sorry, I didn't intend to imply that" can eliminate a lot of angst. I should probably say it more often, because I'm as guilty as many.

 

[Katwick]

There is another way that INNO can eliminate the 'unfair trades'... impose a fee to post it.

Or only return 90% of the goods when an unattractive trade expires after a week.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

@Katwick .. I'm wondering though, if it would actually be noticed?

I really hope that at some time in the future, they introduce 'fellowship only' trades, impose limits or whatever, so that no trade is penalized and add a penalty for what they have determined to be an 'unfair' trade.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

'fellowship only' trades

That was tried before in the Idea forum and was shot down hard, as Inno refuses to restrict access to trades in that way. No hiding trades in any way from other players.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

Yes @Enevhar Aldarion, I know. That's why I believe it is up to us as PLAYERS to impose our will in the trader and NOT accept the trades we consider unfair, not to be the cash cow that other players can profit from. WE have to make the difference. We have to ignite the change. I cannot and will not forbid anyone in my Khel fellowship from posting the trades, but I have already told them that I cannot take them. I don't have that kind of hoard. I will do what I can for my crew when I can. But I don't post them or take them unless it is arranged for one reason or another. If I notice the one and zero star trades from small cities, I reach out and ask them why they posted that way. If they are desperate to move on with a tech, I may take it, but if I look at their stats and I don't think it sounds true, I don't take them. I've become very mean as a player that way. I verify everything.

 

[Katwick]

@Katwick .. I'm wondering though, if it would actually be noticed?

I really hope that at some time in the future, they introduce 'fellowship only' trades, impose limits or whatever, so that no trade is penalized and add a penalty for what they have determined to be an 'unfair' trade.

If they don't notice, it still works! After a while they won't HAVE anything unattractive to post.

I think "Fellowship Only" trades would actually be very dangerous. Without the risk of an outsider snatching lopsided trades, the mature cities would very quickly ruin the game by funding a "Fellowship Bank" that anybody in the Fellowship could draw from.

• 1k Marble for 1 Steel
• 1k Marble for 1 Planks
• 1k Steel for 1 Marble
• 1k Steel for 1 Planks
• Etc

Folks can only resist sooo much temptation. Sooner rather than later somebody would rip off the Bank, and then change Fellowships.

Please don't go there.

 

[StarLoad]

I had to post an answer for class tonight on the question of "Should non-Indigenous artists be able to use the ancient styles of Indigenous artists?"
The short is Yes, as art is thought and perspectives. Several classmates took exception, saying that the non-Indigenous artists had no moral right to do this.

I closed with those who create art are not the issue; they who buy the art that is the problem.

Just as we have here, the posting of trades isn't an issue we can fix; so all we can do is try to stop the buying.

Ed

 

[Ashrem]

Just the right sort of quantities to catch people in the mid chapters through miss-clicks. I hoped it was a mistake, but the only response to my message suggesting so was an increase in the number posted.

 

[ajqtrz]

@ajqtrz
Your experience with cross tier trades is exactly why I don't take them and I don't place them.

My experience is with cross tier trades of things in great surplus. Other cross tier trades should be fine and I do take them as I need. It's not the type of trade but the use encouragement of those who produce the surplus to keep producing them because their trades are taken. The same thing would be just as applicable if the trade was not cross tier. Taking gems when I didn't need them was the problem, not taking cross-tier trades.

AJ

 

[SoggyShorts]

"Should non-Indigenous artists be able to use the ancient styles of Indigenous artists?"
The short is Yes, as art is thought and perspectives. Several classmates took exception, saying that the non-Indigenous artists had no moral right to do this.

Off-topic, but what an insane reaction from those classmates. The whole "cultural appropriation" concept is garbage. What ever happened to "cultural appreciation"? I'm not allowed to have braids because your ancestors had them? Fine, you can't wear anything with a zipper then. Now let's figure out who's ancestors created aqueducts and everyone else has to collect rainwater.
Idiocy.

 

[Genefer]

Off-topic, but what an insane reaction from those classmates. The whole "cultural appropriation" concept is garbage. What ever happened to "cultural appreciation"? I'm not allowed to have braids because your ancestors had them? Fine, you can't wear anything with a zipper then. Now let's figure out who's ancestors created aqueducts and everyone else has to collect rainwater.
Idiocy.

Don't think, speak, or write

 

[DeletedUser26654]

@crackie I would double, triple like your post if I could. My trader is full of T3 down cross trades and I’m just not taking them period. There definitely needs to be someway to discourage this practice.

Same, same and same. Best comment in the Forum EVER.
Why do you think I've been in so many bad FS? I don't wanna play 24/7 but don't want to be in a FS that allows this from anyone... And yeah, I get a bit .......biotchy when it happens...

 

[Zoof]

I've read enough of this and a few other threads to know that some people has a rather dim view of T3 to T2/T1 trades, but what about T1 to T2/T3 or T2 to T1/T3 trades?

 

[Ihrlaen]

They get snatched up.

Anecdotally, I just checked 4 of the US worlds, and found less than a dozen total, all on Arendyll, and all T2 to T1 from a single city.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I've read enough of this and a few other threads to know that some people has a rather dim view of T3 to T2/T1 trades, but what about T1 to T2/T3 or T2 to T1/T3 trades?

Some people just have a thing against all cross-tier trades and some just hate certain kinds. If I see a cross-tier offering a good I have less of and want a good I have a lot of, as long as it is 2-star or better, I am cool with it. I have a Beta city not boosted in gems, so if my gems are low and I have tier 2 to spare, then those are good trades for me.

 

[KidWillow]

There is a disturbing trend in the Trader these days. A majority of people are posting seemingly fair trades for 3-tier downward goods. I find this practice to not just be rude and exploitative but insulting. Since lower goods require considerably more time and space, our primary resources, these are not by any definition “fair trades”.

If there were ether a better definition of a fair trade or perhaps an exclusion feature for these with type of trades in the Trader, perhaps this scam would be less attractive and as such, discouraged.

The thing that's disturbing is when new players in new cities "cannae" find "nae" trades for their messily T1 and T2 stuff unless they're in a proper fellowship with kind members. One of our member found before she joined that advancement was impossible and gave up playing for a bit. I expect many stop all together and forever.

Again, thank you all for keeping this thread going and for all your thoughtful and generous remarks!

 

[Mykan]

The thing that's disturbing is when new players in new cities "cannae" find "nae" trades for their messily T1 and T2 stuff unless they're in a proper fellowship with kind members. One of our member found before she joined that advancement was impossible and gave up playing for a bit. I expect many stop all together and forever.

Again, thank you all for keeping this thread going and for all your thoughtful and generous remarks!

That has nothing to do with cross trades, it is a common mistake of new players. They expect to go to the trader and find the goods they want in the qty they want immediately. It just doesn't work this way, a new town will have minimal people they ca see to trade with but a large number who can see them. Sadly a lot quit before every figuring out that the secret is to post trades. Once they start doing that then there is never an issue in getting the goods they need other than production.

 

[Zoof]

The thing that's disturbing is when new players in new cities "cannae" find "nae" trades for their messily T1 and T2 stuff unless they're in a proper fellowship with kind members. One of our member found before she joined that advancement was impossible and gave up playing for a bit. I expect many stop all together and forever.

Again, thank you all for keeping this thread going and for all your thoughtful and generous remarks!

I've found myself in that situation on my second city located on US3 "Felyndral" and despite knowing exactly what* to do to mitigate that hot mess, I got myself stuck and frustrated for about a week before I bit the bullet and joined a semi-fellowship on a temporary basis**.

* That being "make your own trades" because most of the people who can take them will have a much longer reach than your own city will, which means there's no trader fee when they take up the trade. Doesn't quite help when you've spawned out in the boonies with no city move in sight. Also doesn't quite help that mobile users get absolutely no indication that this is the case***.
** Some fellowships out there exist almost solely to alleviate the hardships imposed by the trader and poor city spawn location, and state right in their summary that they accept people who have no intention of staying there. It takes a bit of scrolling and checking, though. Frustrating when new players might not even know about this. Not to mention the horror show that mobile app users must endure. A barely-scrollable two-line input box is NOT good for user ergonomics and I fully expect those users to be put off by the whole experience. Do you see my eyes? No. You don't. They've been burned out by the dangerous light of stupid design.

---

EDIT: But yeah. As @Mykan touched on, that has little to do with cross-trading and more to do with how the trader is used and who's all nearby to actually take those trades when issued.

*** EDIT2: That case being that the trader fees are actually fees imposed by the trader for trades that the person taking the trade takes, or that you can get around that by pushing your own trades and letting those fees, if the other player sees them, become someone else's problem. Or that those fees make it seem that 1 or 0 star trades are the norm. Or that their city might get moved at some point so their trader actually becomes useful outside a fellowship. Or... uh. (long pause) ... I... I feel like I've forgotten something. Ah well. It's late and there's a storm brewing so I best go batten down the hatches.

 

[Maeryn]

That has nothing to do with cross trades, it is a common mistake of new players. They expect to go to the trader and find the goods they want in the qty they want immediately. It just doesn't work this way, a new town will have minimal people they ca see to trade with but a large number who can see them. Sadly a lot quit before every figuring out that the secret is to post trades. Once they start doing that then there is never an issue in getting the goods they need other than production.

I read @KidWillow post as newer players are having trouble getting people to take their trades not finding trades in the trader. And it is true, once you can post trades in excess of 100 or so they sit for a longer time period.

With inno changing the first five chapters for some of the newer accounts making the only benefit of being a fellowship during those chapters trade. It starts to get very costly to 3 star trades by chapter 4 due needing a even bigger discount to get trades taken.