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    Your Elvenar Team

Feedback on Being an Elvenar Newbie

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
The following was what I was going to say on the Beta forum. But I couldn't. There's another glitch. I've reconfirmed my email 10 times, but every time I try to register for the beta forum, I get a popup telling me to confirm my email. Anyway, this is what I would have said on the beta forum if I had been allowed to do so:

I want to tell the mods, and maybe the Elvenar team, why I am quitting the beta game. And before you say, "Don't let the door hit ya on the way out, buddy," please understand that I am trying to help the team understand what's wrong. I love this game; I want it to succeed. I think my experience can help toward that end.

I started a beta city a week ago, thinking that it would be nice to have a heads up on events. First, I encountered a glitch where I could not give or get gifts. Coin and supply opportunity lost. It took the Elvenar team 3 days to fix, since it started near the weekend (as luck would have it, just when I started the beta city).

So I began the Halloween event with a glitch.

2nd, I "had" to buy 8 knowledge points … just starting out. You know how hard that is to get enough coins, particularly when the opportunity to get and give coins is shot by a glitch? Mind you, this quest is among all the other ones on the side that require you to BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY. But I finally make it. By the time I finish the 8 kp, the cost of kp is up to about 10K coins each. Wow. I know it's hard to believe that 10K coins mean a lot for those of us who have millions (in my case, in Sinya), but yeah, it's a lot.

3rd, Immediately after finishing that 8 kp quest, I get ANOTHER BUY 8 kp quest…. at even higher cost, of course. (And no, I'm not talking about "or" this … no alternative.) And I had 3 quests on the side (the event and 2 others) telling me to buy stuff. With what? My looks? Of course I put down as many houses as possible, but upgrading the houses to a decent size costs … you guessed it … thousands of coins.

4th, I got a quest to have 2 combined catalysts. Please note that for a new player, the 2 combined catalysts takes almost 2 days to accomplish.

5th Oh joy … this time they want me to BUY 12 KP! Again, with what? Somehow, yesterday, I managed to accomplish this insane repetition.

6th: In addition, I had to get 12 relics. Remember, I have no army, so I have to cater (with yep, coins that I don't have.) I have no tournament provinces except one. I have no way to craft relics in the MA because I have no spell frags with which to craft them, and nothing to disenchant to get spell frags. I have no access to the spire. But somehow, I manage to get all this too, despite it taking me what seemed like forever compared to events in my Sinya city. Yes, things should be harder for newbies … but not "turnoff" hard.

7th Today, I got a quest saying to put 15 kp into a wonder. I think to myself "Good, at least I don't have to BUY the kp!" Guess what …. You CANNOT help on any wonder unless you have unlocked the wonder research at the END of chapter two. It's been so long that I'd forgotten that fact. And how the hell is anyone going to GET to the end of chapter two if every research is locked and they can't use the KP because they have no more coins and goods to unlock more research? All that kp doing nothing but sitting there. The last thing that Inno should be doing to a brand new player is telling them "You have to put KP into a wonder for this event, but you can't do it until you get to the end of chapter two, which may take you a month and the event that you're doing it for will be over by then. Tough luck." That's just completely bonkers.

So I decided to concentrate on the non-event quests and ignore the event completely … which by the way, was the only reason I started a beta account in the first place.

8th, oh joy …. I just got a non-event quest to … guess what? BUY KP!

To add to all of this, I'll need 11 more provinces before I can unlock Chapter 3 (I just started Chapter 2). Right now, many of my provinces are "hard" … so I can't unlock more without pushing them to "very hard." So how am I supposed to get 11 more provinces to unlock the next chapter? I've finished all the provinces I can (except 1). I've done all the SSUs available to me. It makes no sense. This is not a case of overscouting. I'm aware of that problem and trying hard to avoid it. So what gives?

Now I know what all of you may say. Just chill and go slow and don't worry about it. In my sinya ID, I've been playing for 2 years and I understand. But … what if I were a player that had played maybe a few weeks or months before opening a beta account? What if I'd never frequented the forum and didn't understand that quests are meant to be done only after building up? What if I were just trying to do everything the game "told me to do"?

The point is, the game SHOULD NOT BE TELLING brand new players to do the impossible. It should not offer quests that cannot be done within a few days. The start of this game takes Herculean nerves of steel and patience and disappointment, and that's only if you have some familiarity with it. Otherwise, it's a complete nightmare.

That isn't the way to draw people in. Inno should be aware of this. I'm not trying to whine. I'm trying to help with feedback. If one of your die-hard Elvenar lovers can get sick of the game when trying to play as a newbie on Beta, then maybe you ought to think how to change that. I didn't expect easy. I expected possible. Thanks.

And yeah … okay guys … I won't let the door hit me on the way out. :)
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
I've been playing my main city almost a year. I started about a week before the last Halloween event. I got free event currency everyday that I was able to use to get a few great prizes. I didn't get very far in the quests but I learned a lot and had a great time. I've been able to complete the questline in every single event since then.

Locking new players out of events would be a shame.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
I completely tanked my first event...in every single city! I still got a bunch of really great prizes.

I dont think most players expect to be able to do everything after playing a week.

@Darielle there are 3 SSU in chapter 2. If you have not unlocked wonders you have not completed at least 2 of those. Once they are complete your province difficulty will drop.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
I started Aug, 27th last year and the first Event for me was the MoonBear event. I think it started 7 to 10 days after I started playing, maybe one of the older players can find the start date and I was able to finish it. The first 2 chapters fly by pretty quickly. I wish you could check your 1st spire date and then I could tell you how fast the first 2 chapters fly by! I finished the 1st chapter in less than 2 full days.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Indeed, and perhaps the events should be locked until chapter 4 or at least 3

Yep, I have said this before. Chapters 1 and 2 should really be all about learning how to play the game, with chapter 1 being about your personal play and chapter 2 being about fellowships and the tournament. Then chapter 3 to unlock the Spire, as it is, and events and FAs.

And honestly, the month-long events were never geared toward all players being able to complete them. We used to have 14-day mini-events, until a couple of years ago, that were made for anyone to complete. I was in chapter 3 when I completed my first mini-event and got the Wonky Walter's building. I could not do much of anything in the big event that was before that, or the one after, and while it was a little frustrating, I knew I would get better, and I did not resent the game or demand an Easy Button to just give me everything now.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Indeed, and perhaps the events should be locked until chapter 4 or at least 3
I disagree. I started in the middle of the Valentine Float event. Obviously as a brand new player it took me a little while to figure out what was going on. So by the end of the event, my Valentine Float was nowhere near fully evolved. However I think we forget how little a brand new city has. Virtually ANY daily prize they win is going to be better than anything else available. The very first daily prize I ever won was a Halfling Float. And I remember being AMAZED at how much culture that chapter 1 Halfling Float made. It truly was that much better than anything else I had available! For that matter, it was still better than the culture buildings I could build several chapters later. If you lock new players out of events, they would not have a chance to grow their cities using daily prize buildings.
 

Gkyr

Chef
Indeed, and perhaps the events should be locked until chapter 4 or at least 3
At the risk of projecting, I am inferring a little sarcasm here. No criticism implied because irony, even a harsher irony, serves the discussion by reflecting back upon the original premise with a broadened perspective, perhaps even to the point of farce.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I started Aug, 27th last year and the first Event for me was the MoonBear event. I think it started 7 to 10 days after I started playing, maybe one of the older players can find the start date and I was able to finish it. The first 2 chapters fly by pretty quickly. I wish you could check your 1st spire date and then I could tell you how fast the first 2 chapters fly by! I finished the 1st chapter in less than 2 full days.
First chapter is easy that's true. Second chapter is not easy when you're tech locked. Tons of kp, but no coins or goods because everything goes on quests. I'm not saying that I have to do that .... I'm not even saying that I am doing that. I'm saying that it's bad for new players to be told to do that in the quests when it's just going to frustrate them. I think there has to be a better way for Inno to treat new people.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
First of all, I don't believe new players should be able to do everything after playing a week, which is what I said to begin with. And yes, I said that I just started Chapter 2. And true, the difficulty will drop ... when I can get to those techs without being locked out by quests needing those goods before I can put them on techs. And no, I don't have to do the quests. But even if I ignore the quests until I can make it to the end of chapter two, considering the difficulty for players who are just starting out, chapter two does not sail by like chapter one did. For a normal, non obsessed player, I'd say it takes two weeks. Spending half of an event waiting for the means to complete one single quest is unfair, in my humble opinion, to new players, and it does dishearten them.

In my OP I was trying to project what it would be like for new players who do not come to the forums, who do not know you aren't supposed to do what you're told to do, and who do not have the psychic ability to know that they should save that kp for research rather than the quests. What I'm trying to say is that Inno should have a better way to treat new players before they get too frustrated. Some kind of education would be good. More encouragement to visit the forums would be good. Anything would be good.

For those who say that they loved the events when they first started, so did I. I started two years ago during the halloween event. Next week will be my 2 year anniversary. But I don't recall any quest that said I had to have a certain tech to complete one single quest that was at least 15 difficult (by newbie standards) techs away from where I was. That simply didn't occur when I started. Look back and tell me it occurred when you started, and that you didn't mind one bit. Look back and tell me that it took you two weeks to complete one quest, and you didn't think that was bad at all. I just don't think you can say that about your first event. I don't think Inno DID that, frankly. People seem to be reducing my argument to: "I want newbies to be able to get everything." Nothing could be further from the truth.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
You said you expected a 7 day old city to be able to complete the event. It was your concluding sentence.
I didn't expect easy. I expected possible.
So yeah, it got boiled down.
Look back and tell me it occurred when you started, and that you didn't mind one bit. Look back and tell me that it took you two weeks to complete one quest,
I remember that exact quest(spend AWKP with no AW access)in one of my cities, and yes I minded. I think it took me 10ish days to clear that quest and move on. I did not finish the event but I still got lots of great prizes many of which helped me advance my city (including KP, troop intants, coin rains, supply rains, awsome culture buildings, relics, etc). Just because a bitty city cant finish does not mean the events have no value and that access should be further restricted.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
At the risk of projecting, I am inferring a little sarcasm here. No criticism implied because irony, even a harsher irony, serves the discussion by reflecting back upon the original premise with a broadened perspective, perhaps even to the point of farce.
Nah it was a serious suggestion. Events are active about 50% of the time so some players already have 3 weeks of play before access to an event.I didn't have access to events until chapter 4 and it was fine. I have no idea how slowly the average new player would go but I flew through the earliest chapters.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
I started Aug, 27th last year and the first Event for me was the MoonBear event. I think it started 7 to 10 days after I started playing, maybe one of the older players can find the start date and I was able to finish it. The first 2 chapters fly by pretty quickly. I wish you could check your 1st spire date and then I could tell you how fast the first 2 chapters fly by! I finished the 1st chapter in less than 2 full days.

2 days? I think you moved a little faster than I did. :oops:

I really can't remember if I started playing on Oct. 16 or Oct. 23, 2020. The Misty Forest started Oct. 22 and ended on Nov.11, and I hit ch3 and the Spire on Nov. 22. :)

*Autumn Zodiac 2020 started on Sep. 7.
 
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ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Indeed, and perhaps the events should be locked until chapter 4 or at least 3

I agree to a point. The thing is the game is complicated. One thing you do early detracts from another because you only have so many resources. But you don't know how the one thing will impact another and when. So you are very tempted to do as much as you can as it presents itself and thus, often find yourself struggling for things you need.

For instance, the game presents quests. Event, chapter, and the repeating ones. If you are new you don't see or understand the relationship between how each impacts the game and thus, what you can skip or ignore for now.

Ditto for how much you scout things or not.

To make it easier I'd suggest, as you do, that events be postponed until you reach a certain size. Chapter, score, expansions, research -- any of these could be used as a measure. The overall effect would be to make the game simpler because you wouldn't feel like you had to keep all the balls in the air at the same time when you only have one hand! (Yes, you can juggle with one hand, but it's not easy or pretty).

Another thing, and something the OP said that would make sense is to stop increasing the cost of KP when you are required to purchase KP. The true cost of buying 1KP is 10 more coins (or whatever you use) for each KP you buy after that. So forcing a player to purchase KP at the very beginning makes the cost to them of that KP expensive. A 1KP purchase adds, say, 10 coins to the future costs of each KP. Thus, if in the course of the game you buy 10,000 KP, you are really paying 100,000 coins because you purchased the first 1KP. In other words, all things being equal, you would have saved 100,000 coins if you hadn't been forced to purchase that first KP. And it just multiples each time you are then forced to buy another, and another, and another....

So two ideas. Restrict the introduction of events until some point is reached where the complexity of the game is better understood and the players can better determine what they MUST do verses what they CAN do but can also skip. And, make the forced purchase of KP not increment the KP costs.

The first idea I'll leave alone for now as it seems pretty straight-forward. The second might take some coding as, at this point, there is no way to tell why the person is purchasing KP. Thus, it might need some way of notifying the system that the purchase is to be applied to a particular quest?

Just my response.

AJ
 

DeletedUser29768

Guest
I just recently started a city in Ceravyn in the middle of the last event, and I can tell you, it was rough. The daily exclusive buildings are a godsend (I got about six), but you're very limited on the quests. I ended up getting to somewhere around quest 30 and winning four artifacts in total, but I had to really rush through the first chapter; like @Dew Spinner, I think I finished it in under 2 days. I had already done a few "practice" chapter 1 cities in other worlds, so I had the strategy mapped out pretty well, but even so, I found it very frustrating seeing the artifacts, etc., that would never be available again (at least for a long time), and not being able to do anything about it.

Now, I was fortunate enough NOT to get a kajillion "buy KP" quests; my city is nearing the end of chapter 2, and I've bought less than ten. However, I was hit pretty hard by the relic quests; I eventually stopped at the "collect 16 relics" quest, because it was just not realistic. I didn't have any trouble with the story quests though; I unlocked the ancient wonder tech long before I got any quests about that, and my provinces are still smooth sailing. I've been able to come up with a successful layout for each stage; it's actually been kind of fun trying to fit all I can onto such a small footprint. I'm sorry it's been treating you so badly (it's probably harder in beta, I'll admit); you've given me a greater appreciation for how fortunate I am not to be in the situation you are. :cool:
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
You said you expected a 7 day old city to be able to complete the event. It was your concluding sentence.

So yeah, it got boiled down.

I remember that exact quest(spend AWKP with no AW access)in one of my cities, and yes I minded. I think it took me 10ish days to clear that quest and move on. I did not finish the event but I still got lots of great prizes many of which helped me advance my city (including KP, troop intants, coin rains, supply rains, awsome culture buildings, relics, etc). Just because a bitty city cant finish does not mean the events have no value and that access should be further restricted.
Explain to me where I said that I thought a new player should be able to finish the questline; I don't see that anywhere. I said it should be possible to progress from one quest to another within a few days, not to be stymied by one quest early in the event that would preclude being able to progress at all, and winding up with weeks of being able to do nothing, such as that "end of chapter two" quest that I got when I was still in chapter one.. If you misunderstood my meaning, then okay, but please don't say that I said something I never said.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
I finished the 1st chapter in less than 2 full days.
I honestly do not remember how long chapter 1 took me. But like you it was probably a matter of a few days. But I can tell you I finished the first 15 chapters in 18 months or less in 3 worlds . Currently parked at the start of ch 16. *MAYBE* I could beat that time if I ever started a new city and joined a REALLY good FS from the start. But I joined a totally new starter FS in 1 world and started a new FS the same day I started my city in another world. I probably lost some progress in these cities cause in addition to growing my city I was helping to grow the fellowship. On the other hand, I started a city and started a fellowship on the same day. And I grew it from nothing into 10 chest status in 11 months. Probably my single best accomplishment in this game so far. :)
 
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