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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Fellowship Adventures Discussion 2021

Kekune

Well-Known Member
We used to just change our banner color to reflect the chosen path. It worked just as well.
We have done this, too. However, it didn't always update for mobile users unless they logged out, so sometimes we changed the flag color and they didn't see it. The new path marking feature seemed to work consistently, and I do think it's more obvious to folks than a flag in the corner. It seems more effective, to me.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
The coding of paths does not work. People still place badges at random. We used to just change our banner color to reflect the chosen path. It worked just as well. I see it as a useless feature.
this needs clear communication, which in many FA's is not always working that well.

This is easy to use, simple, straigforward and even a monkey would grasp the meaning of it.
So I do not find it useless.

You have to understand that "locking" points would be awefull and would lead to a lot of angry posts to fellowship members, leaders and support.
Because it's more than often that you loging and the badges you have collected are not those that are asked.

Those open spots where you can still randomly drop items are then the spots where you can at least drop something to make sure you do not miss out.

So I think it works really well. it does what it's supposted to do (show people which route is taken) but nog lock anyone out of participating in the FA.
 

Dominionofgod

Well-Known Member
My thoughts:

Ill start off with the newest fa addition, the highlighted paths. Its a good idea but i think it can be done a little bit better. The 'highlight' itself i think should be a little more prominent; impossible to miss. Ppl in a hurry or not paying attention (an issue in its own) could easily miss the current highlight. - But other then that its a decent idea.
I would also consider the idea of allowing one or two paths to be highlighted at once. For any fs that might be working on two paths at once, they can only highlight a single path. - If your only doing one path, you can highlight one path. If your doing all three paths, then it doesn't matter.. Two paths gets left out tho.

Another thing that might help is the addition of an 'X' highlight, completely separate from the main highlights.
There has been a lot of talk about wanting to be able to block ppl from donating to certain paths. But there ha also been a few points made as to why this could back fire. - So i think a second, separate, highlighted 'X' might be a decent idea. It operates the same way as the normal highlighted path, except it puts an 'X' over the way points. This will allow ppl to see that 'this is not a way point we want you to donate to' visually. But it does not block any access to it. So ppl could still donate if they wanted to.
I think that would be 'the best of both worlds'. A visual to say 'donate here' and a visual to say 'do not donate here'. But neither actually limited the players ability.
(If you rly wanted to get creative, you could do the 'X' by individual way points instead of a full path. That would be better, but i image harder to implement.)

----

The Fa itself was unchanged, so anything noteworthy i probably mentioned last fa. So i wont restate the whole thing.

But there is one point i do feel is worth mentioning again. The UI needs some improvement before ppl go crazy. And yes, i do fully acknowledge and appreciate the UI changes over the last year or two in FAs. Such as the the method we now collect badges, instead of the old, cancel 10 times to get back method. That was a massive help. But with the drastic increase of FA's.. the system needs improvement. Ppl say all the time they are getting/got tired of FA's. But i think a better UI/system would help alleviate that.

Honestly, in terms of group cooperation, this was a horrible FA for my FS. - And my fs is a good one. We are doing better then we have in ages. Tourney has improved, spire has improved. And we finished all 3 paths on all 3 maps of the FA and went to the pit. - We do well. But the 'group cooperation' aspect was rather poor this time. We once finished #8 on our server without any intentions of trying for score/points. But now... 6000 fa's later... ppl rly don't seem to care any more. And i know that goes well beyond just my fs. (Even our servers top FA FS.. they have hit #1 for as long as iv been watching fa records. The #2 wouldnt even come close to touching them. They dominated FA every single FA that iv seen... Even there fs apparently said 'screw it' this time. As they did a combined '0 points'.. So even the top fa players are getting tired of this.

Ill skip over how we set things up and run the fa, im sure that will change with the FS in question. And ill jump to the fact that probably around 75% of the ppl still made badges, but would not take part in any of the 'group' accepts of the fa. This was not a group event for us this time. It felt more like a massive group of individuals, playing individually. And that really hinders progress in something like an FA.

There is also the issue of 'wasted badges'. Both in terms of making to many of one badge, and being away from the game for real life during the last day of the fa so they cant use any of there badges. What ever the reason, ppl generally dont like 'wasting badges'. - And i dont blame them on that.

Over all, i think something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the players. And i think that can be done without having to drastically change the FA as a whole. (Probably not a bad idea there, but one step at a time' ).

You've made the act of collecting the badges much easier. You changed that around completely and it helped everyone that does fa's out. But it did not change the over all fa system. - Im talking about more changes like that. An improvement to the UI that made massive impact but not altering the events core intent.

Now im sure everyone will have there own ideas, This following one is just mine. But im trying to keep it in the same spirit as the badge collection change i just mentioned , while trying to address the issues i mentioned as well.

And my first thought is a 'fs badge pool'. - Now this idea is nothing new. Every player has an individual badge pool each fa. We all have that list that shows each badge and how many of each badge we have... that the individual badge pool.
What i suggest is a FS Badge Pool instead. When players make there badges, they go to the FS badge pool instead of an individual badge pool. And the whole fs can see the numbers of the FS badge pool.

Sounds fairly small and simple. But i think it would help in many ways to alleviate pressure on players and maybe even make players that dont really care.. more active in the FA.

Having a FS badge pool instead of an individual one means no longer does anyone have to post the badges they collected. Trying to get everyone to post what they are making or have collected is a major pain. To many ppl are in a hurry, forget, lose count with so many badges... or simply dont care to do so. And when to many dont post, the badge count becomes very inaccurate. Its also a lot of work for the player that has to keep the count. - So alleviating that aspect would be far less pressure on players.

A Fs badge pool instead of an individual one would also mean that players dont have to worry as much about wasted badges from not being able to log in at the right time, every time. All the players badges would go to the fs badge pool so all players badges would be able to be used as needed. This would allow most fs to actually get further in the FA event itself.
This would also make every player important to the FA effort. And on the flip side, it would make it so the FS wouldnt get screwed over by a single player. Intentionally or unintentional.
For example; i go production crazy during FAs. This last Fa i made about 535 badges on my one city alone. (I have two. So total was probably over 1000) I like to think that helps out my FS a decent bit. The previous 2 fa's before this last one, my internet connection went out. Took a couple days to get it fixed. Which ment a couple days before i could get back on to the game. Under the individual badge pool system, my fs was jsut screwed out of my badges. The badges were right there.. but they couldnt use them. To no fault of there own. To no fault of my own. But thats how it is. - Under a Fs Badge pool, they would have had access to all the badges i made. They would be able to use them, help the fs out, get further in the FA, and not have to stress out about losing that many badges unexpectedly and without time to replace them. And i think thats a massive benefit.

A fs badge pool also means less pressure on things needed to be done when you log on. With the fa's new badges spanning the spectrum now, there is a lot to do for an FA. All combined it can take a lot of time. Massively more for those that have multiple cities. The fs badge pool would help to simplify that. - I have only two cities and iv run FA's for the last few years. Doing every part of my duties combined.. i can spend 3h~ getting everything done when i log on sometimes. Granted, i go a bit crazy in fa's.. but still. - Many ppl dont have that kind of time to invest all at once. They have these things call 'lives' that they generally live. So the FS badge pool would mean they could log in, collect everything, set everything, and be done. Because there badges went right to the fs badge pool, they didnt have to worry about the map, and they didnt have to report it. It saves players time and energy and sure enough.. stress. Ppl have enough of that at this point in history. They dont need more added from a game.
This would be similar to the 'Challenges' system you guys use every now and then. Its a pretty stress free mini event. Players make things, collect things and see if they reach the end. No pressure. The fs badge pool, as jsut stated, brings players closer to that same thing. Collect badges, set productions, hope it reaches the end. So you already have a mini event that proves the idea of simplicity in an event that can still be good/fun.

So the FS badge pool instead of the individual badge pool would be a minor adjustment to the players perspective, but i think it would do a lot to help them and help alleviate the stress of the FA; while in turn encouraging more ppl to participate due to simplicity. And if you need some self interest arguments... a stressed out player thats getting sick of it all is far less likely to ever make a $$ purchase. Show them a more simplistic yet fun time and they will be more likely to make that purchase one day. So this would help inno out as well!

So all in all i think it would be nothing but benefits. And it would still be a 'group based event'. In fact i think it would be even more true. Because more ppl would be likely to participate. And every badge from every player would count to the whole in an even bigger way. I really think this is something worth trying. - There is probably more reasons.. but im a bit mentally thoughts out right now.. But i think/hope iv made my point after all that. So please try this!
 

Dominionofgod

Well-Known Member
and in addition to the small UI changes you already made that make a big difference (i mentioned the new badge collecting system), i would like to add to that list the being able to start all the ws's at once, and now.. being able to start all the manufacturies at once!! They are small things form a players perspective, but a massive help! Saves a lot of time and a lot of my sanity. So thank you for that!

I would ask for one single adjustment tho. Make the level 1 workshops have there own 'start all button'. Separate form the rest of the leveled workshops.
The same way as when i start all my lvl 1 manufacturies, my leveled up factories are on there own start button... Id like to see the same for the lvl 1 workshops.
I would love to be able to start all my lvl 1 workshops without it stating my leveled up workshops as well.

 
Last edited:

The Fairy

Active Member
@Dominionofgod if I understand your badge pool correctly then I think the fs going for points would just make a lot of badges for most of the FA and then wait donating any of them until a few hours before it ends. So no one would know how many points any of the other competing fs have. I am not sure if this would be good or bad?
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
@Dominionofgod if I understand your badge pool correctly then I think the fs going for points would just make a lot of badges for most of the FA and then wait donating any of them until a few hours before it ends. So no one would know how many points any of the other competing fs have. I am not sure if this would be good or bad?
I think Dominion's idea of a badge pool is fantastic, but yeah, I'm sure you are right and people would game the system. Then again, there's nothing to stop a fellowship from gaming it now, if they all agree, and just hoarding badges until the very end. I have seen fellowships that look like they aren't doing well in the FA suddenly spurt ahead in the last few hours. So I still think a badge bank would be great.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to allow people to keep their badges individually, but have a separate button to "donate badges," meaning you can donate some to the bank for use when they are needed, but still have your own bank of badges. I'd certainly donate. Some players probably wouldn't, because they'd be afraid of losing something (whatever!) but you know, if you donated all your statues and then at the end of the game, the "bank" or "donation pool" or whatever had extra statues at the end, it would not feel like a personal loss. I don't think people would mind it that much then. And it would also give players a a sense of security to see that donation pool.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
My thoughts:

There is also the issue of 'wasted badges'. Both in terms of making to many of one badge, and being away from the game for real life during the last day of the fa so they cant use any of there badges. What ever the reason, ppl generally dont like 'wasting badges'. - And i dont blame them on that.

Over all, i think something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the players. And i think that can be done without having to drastically change the FA as a whole. (Probably not a bad idea there, but one step at a time' ).

You've made the act of collecting the badges much easier. You changed that around completely and it helped everyone that does fa's out. But it did not change the over all fa system. - Im talking about more changes like that. An improvement to the UI that made massive impact but not altering the events core intent.

Now im sure everyone will have there own ideas, This following one is just mine. But im trying to keep it in the same spirit as the badge collection change i just mentioned , while trying to address the issues i mentioned as well.

And my first thought is a 'fs badge pool'. - Now this idea is nothing new. Every player has an individual badge pool each fa. We all have that list that shows each badge and how many of each badge we have... that the individual badge pool.
What i suggest is a FS Badge Pool instead. When players make there badges, they go to the FS badge pool instead of an individual badge pool. And the whole fs can see the numbers of the FS badge pool.

Sounds fairly small and simple. But i think it would help in many ways to alleviate pressure on players and maybe even make players that dont really care.. more active in the FA.

Having a FS badge pool instead of an individual one means no longer does anyone have to post the badges they collected. Trying to get everyone to post what they are making or have collected is a major pain. To many ppl are in a hurry, forget, lose count with so many badges... or simply dont care to do so. And when to many dont post, the badge count becomes very inaccurate. Its also a lot of work for the player that has to keep the count. - So alleviating that aspect would be far less pressure on players.

A Fs badge pool instead of an individual one would also mean that players dont have to worry as much about wasted badges from not being able to log in at the right time, every time. All the players badges would go to the fs badge pool so all players badges would be able to be used as needed. This would allow most fs to actually get further in the FA event itself.
This would also make every player important to the FA effort. And on the flip side, it would make it so the FS wouldnt get screwed over by a single player. Intentionally or unintentional.
For example; i go production crazy during FAs. This last Fa i made about 535 badges on my one city alone. (I have two. So total was probably over 1000) I like to think that helps out my FS a decent bit. The previous 2 fa's before this last one, my internet connection went out. Took a couple days to get it fixed. Which ment a couple days before i could get back on to the game. Under the individual badge pool system, my fs was jsut screwed out of my badges. The badges were right there.. but they couldnt use them. To no fault of there own. To no fault of my own. But thats how it is. - Under a Fs Badge pool, they would have had access to all the badges i made. They would be able to use them, help the fs out, get further in the FA, and not have to stress out about losing that many badges unexpectedly and without time to replace them. And i think thats a massive benefit.

A fs badge pool also means less pressure on things needed to be done when you log on. With the fa's new badges spanning the spectrum now, there is a lot to do for an FA. All combined it can take a lot of time. Massively more for those that have multiple cities. The fs badge pool would help to simplify that. - I have only two cities and iv run FA's for the last few years. Doing every part of my duties combined.. i can spend 3h~ getting everything done when i log on sometimes. Granted, i go a bit crazy in fa's.. but still. - Many ppl dont have that kind of time to invest all at once. They have these things call 'lives' that they generally live. So the FS badge pool would mean they could log in, collect everything, set everything, and be done. Because there badges went right to the fs badge pool, they didnt have to worry about the map, and they didnt have to report it. It saves players time and energy and sure enough.. stress. Ppl have enough of that at this point in history. They dont need more added from a game.
This would be similar to the 'Challenges' system you guys use every now and then. Its a pretty stress free mini event. Players make things, collect things and see if they reach the end. No pressure. The fs badge pool, as jsut stated, brings players closer to that same thing. Collect badges, set productions, hope it reaches the end. So you already have a mini event that proves the idea of simplicity in an event that can still be good/fun.

So the FS badge pool instead of the individual badge pool would be a minor adjustment to the players perspective, but i think it would do a lot to help them and help alleviate the stress of the FA; while in turn encouraging more ppl to participate due to simplicity. And if you need some self interest arguments... a stressed out player thats getting sick of it all is far less likely to ever make a $$ purchase. Show them a more simplistic yet fun time and they will be more likely to make that purchase one day. So this would help inno out as well!

So all in all i think it would be nothing but benefits. And it would still be a 'group based event'. In fact i think it would be even more true. Because more ppl would be likely to participate. And every badge from every player would count to the whole in an even bigger way. I really think this is something worth trying. - There is probably more reasons.. but im a bit mentally thoughts out right now.. But i think/hope iv made my point after all that. So please try this!
This is a fantastic idea. I think you should simplify it and put it in a poll.
 
...I like where this is heading. :)
Something that may need to be addressed...team mates being able to donate to all paths in play?
A level of trust and cooperation between mates and FA manager(s) would have to be secured.
It would be so nice for AM/Mages to coordinate/count/manage badges towards each Stage goal.
(Similar to a built in user friendly spreadsheet...that isn't intimidating to use by all.)

This would greatly improve FA from a management and planning standpoint, (decrease the "baby sitting") sorry...(chuckles) 24 hours a day.
Issues:
*Badge misplacements.
*Team mates (even after the pit) with many left over badges.
* Over-production...seems like a waste of tools, coins, goods, relics, timers, etc.

Reward: More team mate participation, ability to enjoy FA via chat, etc..., clear goals and timely posting of badges by all.
Thanks, vees
 

aoldizzyTIM

New Member
It was fun to play the FA but it got way out of hand with the risudue in the spiral, this not a product of the game
thus making it is expensive. Several players talked about not playing the FA until they offer prizes for the the FA as
spending money to get this byproduct is ok as long as there is some kind of reward. options are buildings, various time
increases, etc. where as in the others events there many prizes
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I think Dominion's idea of a badge pool is fantastic, but yeah, I'm sure you are right and people would game the system. Then again, there's nothing to stop a fellowship from gaming it now, if they all agree, and just hoarding badges until the very end. I have seen fellowships that look like they aren't doing well in the FA suddenly spurt ahead in the last few hours. So I still think a badge bank would be great.
This is called tactic, it's the way we won our second FA.
The idea is that you lull the competition in slacking because of there advantage already.
It has nothing to do with "gaming the system"
 

Dominionofgod

Well-Known Member
@Dominionofgod if I understand your badge pool correctly then I think the fs going for points would just make a lot of badges for most of the FA and then wait donating any of them until a few hours before it ends. So no one would know how many points any of the other competing fs have. I am not sure if this would be good or bad?
I think Dominion's idea of a badge pool is fantastic, but yeah, I'm sure you are right and people would game the system. Then again, there's nothing to stop a fellowship from gaming it now, if they all agree, and just hoarding badges until the very end. I have seen fellowships that look like they aren't doing well in the FA suddenly spurt ahead in the last few hours. So I still think a badge bank would be great.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to allow people to keep their badges individually, but have a separate button to "donate badges," meaning you can donate some to the bank for use when they are needed, but still have your own bank of badges.
This is a fantastic idea. I think you should simplify it and put it in a poll.
...I like where this is heading. :)
Something that may need to be addressed..
I thank you all for your replies!
Just to let you all know, i did in fact post this over in the 'ideas and suggestions' for discussion as well! Feel free to post any discussion or ideas or questions or such on this over there! And i will try to answer out as much as i can!
 

The Fairy

Active Member
but yeah, I'm sure you are right and people would game the system. Then again, there's nothing to stop a fellowship from gaming it now, if they all agree, and just hoarding badges until the very end. I have seen fellowships that look like they aren't doing well in the FA suddenly spurt ahead in the last few hours.
I know it is happening today, I have seen fs suddenly do a lot of points near the end, and for that reason I never feel safe before it is over. But with this badge pool then I think everyone going for top placement would do it cause then it would be easy to do. When you do it today it requires that some with lots of badges have coordinated and are ready to be on near the end.
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
Gotta agree with CW this time, lolol, we call it 'ambush', it's a tourney win tactic from back in the day, and while it is surprising it's never been considered dirty pool, just prepared. A FS we passed this way on EN1 called it 'pit bombing'.