Fellowship lists should show both Player counts and Active Player counts

[MichaelMichael]

It would be helpful if fellowships list showed, not just the number of players, but the number of ACTIVE Players. Active means they played recently (e.g signed into) Elvenar; recently meaning the last 7 days, but 14 or 30 days also would work. Also, a radio button/game setting to EXCLUDE inactive fellowships (and players) from all listings would be helpful. An inactive fellowship is a fellowship with ZERO active players

NOTE: In a subsequent note, it was suggested that "Sign On" history (above) is subject to privacy laws. I hereby revise "login" to "had a score change". Score changes are not subject to Privacy laws. I don't care how activity is determined, just that it is reported. Scores are already reported, so Inno would only be reporting on existing information (already reported) and simplifying that data into a simple digital yes/no.

This would help players (particularly newbees) find appropriate active fellowships. Searching for a new fellowship is harder than it should be.

 

[MichaelMichael]

This is an alternate execution that gets to the same place via an "opt in" mechanism.

I might consider putting 2 radio buttons adjacent to one another on the fellowship list screen - #1 to show active player counts (for fellowships) and #2 exclude Inactive (the 2nd function). I might even set the second whenever the first is activated, although a player could unset the second button if desired.

This way the huge number of inactive players and fellowships does not scare off newbees. This way, once a newbee sees the button and sets it, there is immediately a good list for him/her to search. The reason NOT to "show inactive players immediately" is to avoid scaring off new players while not offending existing groups that play infrequently by suggesting that they don't play often enough.

My preferred execution is ALWAYS showing active player counts for fellowships, making radio button #1 superfluous, but adding radio button #2 as described above.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This has come up many times before and Inno's official response is they cannot show who is active because it violates the EU privacy laws. Innogames is in Germany, so everyone has to follow those laws.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This has come up many times before and Inno's official response is they cannot show who is active because it violates the EU privacy laws. Innogames is in Germany, so everyone has to follow those laws.

This is still completely false, and won't magically become true no matter how many times you say it.

Just once I'd like you to actually think about how impossible that is.

• We are shown who is online in our FS with the green dot.
• We are shown who is online through chat vis "/who"
• Loads and loads of Germany-based games show active player status

But someone all of those "Crimes" against EU privacy laws are fine?
As I explained to you before, you are remembering a single quote from a single forum mod who had no idea what they were talking about and certainly had not read the EU laws on the subject.
Please stop spreading this falsehood.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This is still completely false, and won't magically become true no matter how many times you say it.

Just once I'd like you to actually think about how impossible that is.

• We are shown who is online in our FS with the green dot.
• We are shown who is online through chat vis "/who"
• Loads and loads of Germany-based games show active player status

But someone all of those "Crimes" against EU privacy laws are fine?
As I explained to you before, you are remembering a single quote from a single forum mod who had no idea what they were talking about and certainly had not read the EU laws on the subject.
Please stop spreading this falsehood.

So you are still spouting your lies about this and ignoring when the CM on Beta told you specifically because it was the privacy laws that they will never tell us who is active or not.

 

[Henroo]

There is a 3rd party website (elvenstats.com) which gives this exact information. You can look up any fellowship and it will tell you which members of that FS are active or not. Therefore, the information is already in the public domain. To me the only question left is how easily does Inno want the information to be accessible? If Inno wants to make it easily accessible, then they would implement this change and show the data within game. If they do not, then they will continue as is and we will continue to rely on elvenstats for info.

 

[SoggyShorts]

...when the CM on Beta told you specifically...

Link?

I don't doubt that a CM once said this (I was there) but they were wrong and repeating it is stupid. You're smarter than this, just think:

How are the green dots that already tell us who is online not a violation of these imaginary laws? What about /who? Why is there no cease and desist for elvenstats?

That CM is not a lawyer and barely a representative of inno. Taking their mistake and extrapolating it to "innos official response" is ridiculous.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Link?

I don't doubt that a CM once said this (I was there) but they were wrong and repeating it is stupid. You're smarter than this, just think:

How are the green dots that already tell us who is online not a violation of these imaginary laws? What about /who? Why is there no cease and desist for elvenstats?

That CM is not a lawyer and barely a representative of inno. Taking their mistake and extrapolating it to "innos official response" is ridiculous.

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/recruiting.29453/page-2#post-243638

I can't find the original thread on Beta where she replied to you, but there is my copy/paste of it to you just a month ago. And she was specifically talking about players not in your fellowship.

And if @helya told us the same thing about the privacy stuff, would you call her a liar too?

 

[BrinDarby]

and ignoring when the CM on Beta told you specifically because it was the privacy laws that they will never tell us who is active or not.

Sure @SoggyShorts may have used "/who" or the green dots as examples,
and yes, those are "in the same FS", and you are saying a quote was about
those in other FSs or on a server in general.......................BUT

Does that EU Law extend to this Forum ???
I can see everyone logg'd into the Forum in realtime, and
not just those in my FS..... Soggy's right, is this just another case
of selective enforcement/compliance to a seemingly imaginary Law ?

Personally I'm done with selective enforcement of Laws/Rules.
It degrades the principle of Laws in the 1st place to a point
that we are basically in controlled anarchy, its still Anarchy tho.....

 

[SoggyShorts]

I can't find the original thread on Beta where she replied to you, but there is my copy/paste of it to you just a month ago. And she was specifically talking about players not in your fellowship.

I found it, and context (as always) matters:

You're wrong @Enevhar Aldarion, there is no law(German or otherwise) against showing online status, and inno does not have an official response against showing it, in fact they already do show it.
Time to accept facts mate.

Source for top https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...ton-for-fellowship-members.16962/#post-101192
Source for bottom https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/fellowship-members-online-status.16990/#post-101410

 

[helya]

I'm happy to check and see if this would be an option at all or if showing the online status globally rather than just within a Fellowship violates privacy laws if you'd like. Over all activity of a player, however, is rather a grey area so I can't say this is something that would even be an option. Elvenstats uses a change in score to determine activity, we use last login.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'm happy to check and see if this would be an option at all or if showing the online status globally rather than just within a Fellowship violates privacy laws if you'd like.

That'd be great, an official confirmation would finally end the misinformation. I mean there's only 3 possibilities:
1. There is no such legal restriction.
2. The german law states specifically that knowing when your Elvenar FS members are online is ok, but other players is a no-no.
3. There is such a law and inno has violated it by not warning us and having us sign a waiver when joining a fellowship.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

2. The German law states specifically that knowing when your Elvenar FS members are online is ok, but other players is a no-no.

Not German, EU-wide data privacy laws, from how I have seen them referred to. Germany has no control over it.

 

[Talaedraiia]

Apparently browser players can see FS members status, but how do mobile players see the status of their FS members?

 

[Zoof]

On both browser and mobile, you can type "/who" (without the quotes) into the user chat to find out who is online in your FS at the time.

Or at least it should be. I immediately noticed a discrepancy between using that command and what the FS tab shows, so I'm not sure what to say

EDIT: I remember that there's an explanation as to why that discrepancy exists but I don't remember what it was.

 

[Lelanya]

On both browser and mobile, you can type "/who" (without the quotes) into the user chat to find out who is online in your FS at the time.

Or at least it should be. I immediately noticed a discrepancy between using that command and what the FS tab shows, so I'm not sure what to say

EDIT: I remember that there's an explanation as to why that discrepancy exists but I don't remember what it was.

Heya Zoof
I think the green dot will show players that are online for a certain number of minutes or more. 10 or 15, iirc, was what was said, I played with a bit when it was released. But to find the details I'd have to read through Evenstar's Shakespearean character to get there (insert appropriately expressive icon).

 

[crackie]

mobile users don't always show up on the /who command.

On both browser and mobile, you can type "/who" (without the quotes) into the user chat to find out who is online in your FS at the time.

Or at least it should be. I immediately noticed a discrepancy between using that command and what the FS tab shows, so I'm not sure what to say

EDIT: I remember that there's an explanation as to why that discrepancy exists but I don't remember what it was.

The /who command doesn't always show the mobile players is what I've noticed.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Not German, EU-wide data privacy laws, from how I have seen them referred to. Germany has no control over it.

Ok, to be clear: You're suggesting that there is an EU-wide privacy law that makes it OK to see the online status of FS members, but not other players?

You realize that isn't less ridiculous, right? Now you are including hundreds if not thousands of games that all show the online status of players to other players outside of FS, and each one of these multi-million)and some billion) dollar games studios are all in violation of these laws?
SMH

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Ok, to be clear: You're suggesting that there is an EU-wide privacy law that makes it OK to see the online status of FS members, but not other players?

You realize that isn't less ridiculous, right? Now you are including hundreds if not thousands of games that all show the online status of players to other players outside of FS, and each one of these multi-million)and some billion) dollar games studios are all in violation of these laws?
SMH

You still aren't getting what Inno keeps saying they cannot do. It is about putting anything into the game that shows last log-in or last activity. The green dots and /who are only in the fellowship and only show if someone is online at that moment, not anything else. That tiny thing has never been part of what Inno says they are not allowed to do.

 

[SoggyShorts]

You still aren't getting what Inno keeps saying they cannot do.

"Keeps saying" is very generous. Try to be honest here, we're talking about a single post from almost 4 years ago that neither of us can even find anymore and another from last summer that was contradicted/walked back within 2 weeks.

It is about putting anything into the game that shows last log-in or last activity.

Again, literally, hundreds of EU-based games and companies do this.
Real-time activity and Last log in data is available in other EU games published in the EU by EU developers.

The green dots and /who are only in the fellowship and only show if someone is online at that moment, not anything else. That tiny thing has never been part of what Inno says they are not allowed to do.

FALSE:

I mean seriously Enev, at this point you aren't even quoting the false information accurately.