• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Fellowship post to encourage and assist fighting

Smooper

Active Member
I created a short guide that I was going to post in the forum to encourage players to fight more. I would post one about how to maximize negotiating/convincing but I feel that would be better left to others in my Fellowship. The goal is to help players get further in tournament and spire so we all get better rewards. Here is the post:
Fighting in the Spire and Tournament
The Basics: Make sure you can produce enough troops. Have 3 or more armories. Buildings that produce troops you like for free are also great. The Brown Bear building is awesome for giving free troops and also to boost your recruiting when it is fed. Make sure you have the supplies. Whether your strategy is to boost with spells or just keeping them running, supplies are key to recruiting troops.
The Next Level: Troops by themselves aren't going to win the battles. Boost, boost, boost those troops. I like to use 2 unleashed unit upgrades or a dwarven armory (found in the spire), 2 enlightened light range and 2 magnificent mage multiplier buildings. You can use more or less but you have to keep building them in the magic academy whenever you see them. Also critical is making pet food because you will absolutely want a fire phoenix.
The Critical Buildings: If you want to fight you have to have a Fire Phoenix. They are effective at half evolutions so get the evolutions first and then craft the Fire Phoenix so it is in your current chapter. There are several AW's that really help boost your fighters also. Needles of the Tempest (light ranged), Martial Monastery/Sanctuary (health of all units), Dwarven Bulwark (training size/free light melee), Heroes Forge (Heavy melee damage), Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms (light ranged), Flying Academy, (mages and training speed), Dragon Abbey (mage damage), Temple of the Toads (heavy ranged), Victory Springs (training speed, lt. melee damage), Pyramid of Purification (heavy melee), Simia Sapiens (troop production boost).

Look these up and decide which are important to you. It is fully possible to never negotiate or convince if you are strong enough in fighting. I personally mix fighting with convincing. I fight half of the tournament encounters I have and only convince bosses when in the Spire. I could be a much more efficient fighting city also if I focused even more on making it better.
Does anyone have some thoughts or advice. I want to keep it short and simple for players who lean to the casual side.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Overall, pretty good primer. One thing sticks out though. I am not sure if “The Next Level” after “The Basics” mean intermediate or “Next Level” in a Reddit sense like you are playing 5D chess. That said, I dunno the context of using 2 of each buff building. I currently only use 2 total with Fire Phoenix to stretch me to 10k max in tourney and full Spire. Would saying using 6 total scare people away if “Next Level” is used in the intermediate sense? That sounds unsustainable unless you have a Timewarp+Polar Bear combo to stretch them for 2 weeks each, which would only be available to later chapter players. But if you use 6 buffs to chase 20k in tourney, then it is taking tourney to the “Next Level”. Like, if someone is only doing 2k in tourney, 6 buffs a week feels unsustainable and overkill. I would even advise them to not use them until they can handle more tourney. I do see you said they can “use more or less”, but it sounds like you are establishing 6 as the starting baseline. Someone might think, OMG I need 6 buffs to be able to fight everything? They might be afraid to start fighting more?
 

ed1960

Buddy member #3, EAA
I created a short guide that I was going to post in the forum to encourage players to fight more. I would post one about how to maximize negotiating/convincing but I feel that would be better left to others in my Fellowship. The goal is to help players get further in tournament and spire so we all get better rewards. Here is the post:

Does anyone have some thoughts or advice. I want to keep it short and simple for players who lean to the casual side.
The first, thing that comes to mind is who is reading this because that would change the WAY it is read. For example, a player in CH 5 would be like ok cool and 2 weeks later be But I don't have any more boost bldgs? what now?
The second is that a player in chapter 3 would likely not have the number of troops nor the proper ones to fight.
The third item I take exception to is putting out 2 of each and a DA and Fire Chicken, That is OVERKILL unless you are going for more than 30 or 40 Provinces for 6 rounds. Recently our FS had a Push week and I did 58 provinces to 6 rounds and had 2 each of the UUU, MMM, and ELR 1 DA and fed my Fire Chicken and scored over 15K for that week. Yes 2 of each helped to keep troop losses down, especially above Prov 40 where the squad sizes get really large and even a moderate troop loss is a lot of troops.
The fourth item is the listing of AW's they have been discussed in-depth, but not all are equal in their ability to help in battles. it would take hours to go over all of it but just 1 example is the Pyramid and it is putrified for sure I can say it is not worth the KP. I rarely use HM in battle in a way it can help. I will use Barracks troops in low provinces and halfway on the spire and from then on it's Merc troops and mostly Pro rangers, BM, and Frogs. From the training grounds, I mostly use Dogs when I have all mage or LM enemies.


For the most part, I tell my FS members to cater/negotiate up thru chapter 8 and only battle like the first two steps of the Spire and only the early rounds of the tourney for practice and to learn how to battle. It is only in chapter 8 that your troops are really going to start being effective at higher levels of battle. Yes, there are exceptions but only battle-hardened veterans will be able to see them and take advantage of them.

Ed
 

Smooper

Active Member
@crackie I guess, I wrote "I like" but I will make it more specific to my situation instead of seeming mandatory. I only use buildings once a month because we only do a spire push once per month and I try to use them during tourney also so I am able to get the buildings I need. There is no way my troops could do anything but die at a rapid rate if I didn't use that many buildings. I guess it is what I find works and I worry if they try with a couple buildings and don't have any success they will just go back to spending all their goods and say fighting doesn't work.
 

Smooper

Active Member
@ed1960 I have to say, I am in WoodElves right now and had my best success in the Spire in the earlier chapters. It does get more expensive and harder the higher you go. These are casual fighters who have to gird their loins to make a push every so often. Maybe they will start to love fighting and do it better than I could show them.

I will make it more clear that it is either the dwarven armory or a couple of unleashed unit upgrades and not both for my preferences. 3rd point is really only in reference to tourney. I think tournaments are just side action here. The spire is where all the bonuses are needed. We don't push tournament anymore because getting an extra one or two bonus chests is negative gain for what you need to put into it. 10 or 11 chests is fine.

I understand your 4th point but I was merely making a list of the AW's that are relative to fighting and what they benefit, I did not say which ones are the best. I don't even really know since I only have a few of them anyways. I listed them so they can look into them based on what their needs might be. I can't wait to get my flying academy but I have left others behind that would also help. I know the formula for difficulty deals with expansions, research and AW's so you have to be a little choosy to not make the difficulty to hard.

Thanks for your insight.
 

ed1960

Buddy member #3, EAA
There is no way my troops could do anything but die at a rapid rate if I didn't use that many buildings.
Just saying this tells me that your issue is more in-depth, I can fight to the top of the spire and Might negotiate 1 time and I have been doing this since S&D or Halflings. Your lack of Specific AW's is likely the cause or you are not sending the proper & leveled troops to do the battles.
Just feels like something is missing, also it is illogical to place 2 ELR's for example if you don't KNOW you are going to face a lot of LR, Mage, and HM in battles.

Ed
 

Smooper

Active Member
@ed1960 I guess I should be more specific in the original post. This is mainly for Spire where all types of troops are seen. Tournaments just get the help that having these buildings out for Spire bring. I will do a poll and find out who fights in our fellowship and see if help is needed here at all.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
For the most part, I tell my FS members to cater/negotiate up thru chapter 8 and only battle like the first two steps of the Spire and only the early rounds of the tourney for practice and to learn how to battle. It is only in chapter 8 that your troops are really going to start being effective at higher levels of battle.
I agree with Ed that chap 8 is a good "sweet spot" to convert to fighting. A big part of making this a sweet spot is your armories and Bulwark will hopefully have enough levels on it to feel it kicking in. That means extending your queue long enough to continue producing troops overnight. Gaining 6+ hrs of production will let you paint with bigger canvas as to what you want to do with your troops as you will have more of them. Prior to that, I simply ran out of room trying to fit more armories and trying to extend my queue. Knowing this, I hoarded all military buff buildings and Pet Foods in my second city and catered everything until chap 8. Even though I had a fully evolved Fire Phoenix and a crap ton of armories, I was a pure caterer there for hoarding purposes. Now I have 100+ of Pet Food over there so I'm not afraid to use them or think I need to save them for something else.

As to the first few rounds of tourney to practice battle, this could be hit or miss in terms of learning curve. You do have such an advantage on numbers in these early encounters that you can almost pick your troops blindfolded and still probably win. And if you autofight, not sure how much learning happens if anything you throw at it will prob end with a victory, but you're not seeing the underlying mechanics.

Lastly, I choose to fight the Lab. This ensures 100% diamond profit. Catering the Lab is hard, esp the gate bosses. The math isn't on your side. If I fight it, I don't need to spend any diamonds to stop bleeding goods starting over just because I failed one Spirit or something. The Gateway and High Halls section are still easy to cater though. It's not worth killing my troops there when I can easily pick the nose on the catering.
 

Smooper

Active Member
@crackie I was not suggesting using troops in the tournament to practice battle. I merely use the benefit of the buildings to lose less troops in tournament fighting that I might lose without them. Also I feel you do the opposite of what feels intuitive to me. I fight the easier battles so that I will have the goods when I reach a double or triple wave battle that I would rather not fight. I guess I also use diamonds to prevent having to re-convince the ghosts because of my time. I would prefer not to do this though. I have never calculated how much goods it takes to do the easy negotiations over the tougher negotiations. I horde all things Elvenar whether it is goods or troops.
 

Smooper

Active Member
@ed1960 I am in Woodelves right now and have a needles, sanctuary and dwarven bulwark for fighting AW. I also have a golden abyss and mountain halls. I am super tight for room as the woodelves chapter is kicking my butt on available space.
 

ed1960

Buddy member #3, EAA
As to the first few rounds of tourney to practice battle, this could be hit or miss in terms of learning curve.
The mobile players i help them see the type of enemy and the proper troop to use as a counter. Others I tell to try manual as a learning tool to see how the players move and how terrain plays a part. you are right 5 LM could win against 5 HR at the troop sizes but its more about how to pick the proper troops for battle.


@crackie I was not suggesting using troops in the tournament to practice battle.
I suggested that

Ed
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
@crackie I was not suggesting using troops in the tournament to practice battle.
Sorry for being unclear. That was part of the response to Ed's comment where he suggests using early rounds for practice.
Also I feel you do the opposite of what feels intuitive to me. I fight the easier battles so that I will have the goods when I reach a double or triple wave battle that I would rather not fight. I guess I also use diamonds to prevent having to re-convince the ghosts because of my time. I would prefer not to do this though. I have never calculated how much goods it takes to do the easy negotiations over the tougher negotiations. I horde all things Elvenar whether it is goods or troops.
Exactly. The math is not in your favor to guess 7 items into 5 slots in only 3 attempts! You'd have to keep restarting or use diamonds, which means you bleed out on goods or you lose diamonds. If you're in a silver or gold FS, your net gain on diamonds will prob still be in the positive doing this, making it still worth your while. But it's obviously better if you get to keep ALL of your silver or gold Spire diamonds in the end! If you fight it, then you're done. Since I am catering until Lab, my buff buildings come out when it's tourney time on Tues. That syncs more or less with when I get to Lab.

Multi-wave fights are tougher in general, but there are exceptions where they are a skip in the park if it's an easy combo like all heavy melee and light range enemies, which you can even win with no buffing probably. However, even if they are a skip in the park, the amount of troops each stack requires might be too expensive for an early chapter player. Like one fight might eat 15 squads just to go to battle. Again, they make troops woefully slowly that making them back becomes a problem if they die in such large stacks.

Another thing to keep in mind with the multi-wave battles is the last one of the section are all 3-wave battles, BUT 3-wave battles are the only ones where YOU start with a numbers advantage. And the enemies in each following wave gets smaller and wimpier. You start outnumbered in all 2-wave battles. So if you're able to maintain your numbers advantage after Wave #1, you can still fair pretty well in those 3 wave battles. Therefore, after Round 1 of a 3-wave battle is a good time for Vitality Surges.
 
Last edited:
I would say your short advice is great. We are having the same issue trying to motivate team members to do more in spire/tournt. I may steal your advice.
However, I would separate the part about evolving buildings bc if you don't have them from a past event, you can't just go out and get them, like you can build a new armory. This would be very frustrating for a new player no matter what chapter they are in.
 
Top