Fight or Negotiate

[HJK84]

After you complete a round in a tournament province, it takes 16 hours for that province to reset to the next round. There are 5 days in a tournament. So, while it's possible to do 6 rounds in a province, you have to work that reset time out to get the 6th round to open before the end of the tournament without using instants and/or diamonds to speed it up.

The rounds are based on time. Because they are 16 hours apart, and there are only 5 days, the only way to complete 6 is by doing two rounds in one day. Unless you are up in the wee hours, it has to be either Wednesday, or thursday, with one round early in the morning and another late in the evening

Ah, I didn't consider that. I thought everyone already has a certain # of rounds, and that time had nothing to do with it.
Makes sense though. I knew the 16 hour reset, I just thought, as I said above, the rounds allowed are predetermined.

Thank you both

 

[HJK84]

Scroll Tournament:

According to Mykan's Combat 201, Key unit; Sword Fighter.
I had to cater 1/3 of the 12 provinces I had, and lost over 20 squads of SF's (lvl2)
I auto'd many, lost a few, got confused, tried non-auto and still wasn't able to compete. 1st round???

I tried various tactics, mixing up key unit with, Sorceress'(lvl1), Cerberus'(lvl2), Archers(lvl2), Golems(lvl1) (all ofc according to the enemy)

Is this considered a harder Tourny? Or am I doing something wrong?
Other outside info for this tourny recommends, Key unit; Golems

 

[Mykan]

It is a hard tournament. You are up against some tough specialist enemies:

• Rangers - Excel against your mages
• Mist walkers - excel against your heavy melee (treants/paladins/etc.)
• Orc Deserter - specialised against light melee, only has an offense bonus to light range
• Abbots - specialised against heavy range and reasonable against heavy melee plus their long reach.

For rangers and mist walkers you would ideally want either light melee or heavy range. Depending on whether they put in abbots or orc deserters will really impact the best option. If you are going light melee the drone riders are excellent against the light range.

For abbots you would ideally want either light melee (cerberus ideally) or Light range (Rangers are excellent). Too many orcs and your cerberus die so again pay attention to enemy composition. Light range are a reasonable option but only neutral to rangers/mist walkers and you would want to kill the orcs early so they cant use their offense bonus.

For orcs deserters you would ideally want Mages or heavy melee. Neither are great with 2 light range enemies and abbots as well. You can exploit their specialisation and use the opposite against them. So if lots of rangers and orcs go with treants/paladins but if the enemy is mostly mist walkers use your mages.

There are so many combinations and so many possible options. This tournament has a very good mix of specialist units and if your slightly off on your selection or the map is bad you will pay dearly. Other tournaments have a wider margin for error. You really have to know the enemy units and adjust your approach according to their specialities. Also be prepared to use your units that are neutral to some of theirs.

 

[HJK84]

Thanks, this sure helps for future Scrolls
Sadly I trained mostly 1 unit type... so I'll do my best, but probably going to cater most of it.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

I happen to be one of those military specialists. Starting around chapter 4 my factories began declining as I focused on tournaments and military production. I have had 1 factory per tier since sometime in chapter 5 and am on the tail end of chapter 9. My goods have grown steadily except for the time I dumped 200K elixir into the Fellowship Adventure.

Scrolls is quite tough as it uses all 5 units at times. In general the best unit to use depends on race and development. For elves golems (heavy ranged) takes most fights, because the number of abbots is generally low. The humans mortar unit is not quite as strong because of the difficulty of balancing range vs movement vs HP vs damage. In either case this is a heavy casualty tournament.

For fighting in general upset losses can occur because of terrain. The auto-fight does take terrain into account, but sometimes random stuff can make a huge difference. I have lost a fight using 5 identical squads and auto, and then tried the same a second time and won with minor casualties. My general rule for tournaments is fight once and cater if I lose, although some fight experience tells me are too iffy and I will cater first.

Fighting has proven to be the more efficient path for tournament activity, and heavy tournament participation is the more efficient path for KP generation. Combat designed cities can run circles around factory designed cities because they have so much more KP to work with. However the extra influx of KP results in being tech-locked regularly and requires wonders to dump KP into. Thankfully the list of fighting wonders is quite long, and there is consensus that the Martial Monastery / Sanctuary is the best of those military wonders.

Fighting is not too hard to learn, and using some wonders you can make it even easier. In terms of map conquering, if you are patient then you can reach a point when all further combat is easy and losses will be less than a squad per encounter. The cost to negotiate keeps going up.

 

[HJK84]

Thanks for all the help gents!

Since this thread I've been active and completing every single Tournament, only missed 1 round 6, as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Been top 10-50 each time.

My question now is;
When I have the correct troops to win a fight, meaning 0 counters or anything, my troops are the superior kind.
In rounds 5 & 6, I'm stumbling on lvl 3 troops and I tend to lose or cater most of them. Not to mention the squads are more and much higher than mine. I'm guessing, this is cause my troops are still lvl 1-2.

Am I correct about my assumptions. Once I unlock lvl 2-3 for all troops, I will be able to win some of these later round / higher provinces, even if they have more squads and all lvl 3's?

 

[samidodamage]

Am I correct about my assumptions. Once I unlock lvl 2-3 for all troops, I will be able to win some of these later round / higher provinces, even if they have more squads and all lvl 3's?

Unlocking higher lvl troops will help, but (there's always a 'but' isn't there,lol?)...The higher the round in a tournament province, the higher the enemy squad size. Your tournament squad size is based on your regular squad size (I think it starts out at 5% and increases from there; someone will correct me if I'm wrong). In round 1, the enemy squad size is 85% of your squad size. It increases by 15% each round. So, round 2 is 100%. Round 5 is 145% and 6 is 160%. You are not expected to be able to win fights at all if the enemy is 200% of your squad size. Rounds 5 & 6 require very strong strategic tactics. I rarely go to round 6. I do 5 rounds in more provinces (I like consistent sleep, lol) and more rounds gets more points (you get 30 points for round 1 whether you're in province 1 or province 101). But round 5 can get difficult in some encounters depending on the type. This dust tournament is a bit hard because of the enemy unit types and I lost several round 5 fights and had to cater. I still try fighting first; figure that's the best way to improve my tactics. There are tourneys where your lower lvl troops can still win. The first example that comes to mind is Cerberus 2. A light melee unit specialized in mages, even at lvl 2 they can handle lvl 3 Abbots. I'm an elf; our sorceress has such a short strike range (3) that she's not as capable as the human priests. But, once you get the Mercenary Camp and Blossom Mage(strike range 5), even at lvl 1 she does a better job on lvl 3 Steinlings than my lvl 3 Sorceress(she's in their strike range if she can hit them) and Blossom Mage absolutely devours the Heavy Melee. Once things got this complicated, I started using the info box much more, looking at % buffs against enemy, whether they are attack, defense or both buffs and which of the 2 unit types they are best against. I look at health points as well as strength of attack to decide which one will last longer and which one will hit harder. I also do this with the enemy units. The dust tournament has been rough on the Cerberus 3, less so on my lvl 3 Treants. Having never played a combat game before and deciding to cater only (didn't even train troops or build military bldgs except for mainline quests!) for the first three chapters and changing my mind in the 4th, it's been a challenge, but an enjoyable one that has improved my overall game progress. I'm trying to learn better tactics now, and that seems to be trial and error (mostly error, lol!). Most of the info I find in online guides and videos is more basic. So, it's slow, but coming along and a lot more fun than I originally thought it would be.

 

[HJK84]

@samidodamage Thanks.

Back again for question(s), and maybe some advice for those who do auto-fight and cater

Currently in chap.5:
Idk, if this can be done for everyone, not sure if it depends on chapters. I always cycle to the Gain Relic quest for each provinces, gaining coin/supply each time. Tedious is becomes, cycling 19 times after each province, but sure does help a ton!

After many weeks of full out tournament hunting, I realized the further the rounds go, the more I need to cater. Eventually catering half the provinces due to having no troops left.
I'm now trying to cater all the 10+ provinces, unless in 1st round and I know the loss of troops will be very very low.
I realized if I don't do the above, I can't recoup enough troops to even complete the begin' provinces. And so, I end up having to cater more and more each round.

This also could be because, I can't queue up enough troops while I sleep. Max is a tad over 3 hours. (I have 15xlvl1 Arms sitting around, I rotate these out for events)
I have followed the 60/60/40 ratio, for now, 2 Arms, 7 Ws. (would it be wise to get rid of 1 Ws, cause I'm so active and able to max out supply in 2 days after a tourny, without using any PP's. Or, is this going to get more important later on, and unwise to get rid of a Ws?)

 

[Mykan]

After many weeks of full out tournament hunting, I realized the further the rounds go, the more I need to cater. Eventually catering half the provinces due to having no troops left.
I'm now trying to cater all the 10+ provinces, unless in 1st round and I know the loss of troops will be very very low.
I realized if I don't do the above, I can't recoup enough troops to even complete the begin' provinces. And so, I end up having to cater more and more each round.

This is were a couple things become important:

• First, compete within your means. Only do what you are capable of replacing in terms for troops and goods from one tournament to the next. You may have a "splurge" week but generally you don't want to be going backwards or you eventually have no goods
• Armories - To compete more with troops you need more of them so you ideally want a large enough traiing size that your barracks can be working non-stop. Some wonders can assist in this area
• Wonders
  • Needles of the tempest - excellent at producing those troops faster so you have more of them. You need to balance this with training size. Fast training speed is great during a tournament to quickly replace troops lsot
  • Shrewdy shrooms and bulwark - Great for training size
  • Any wonder that gives free troops - Gives you more troops for no cost in supplies
  • Monastery - for longer lasting troops so you need less replacements

There is no real set formula for these buildings and you do need to balance it within your own play style, space, etc. In terms of your workshops if you are maxing supplies constantly you could consider dropping one, or deleting it and rebuilding part way. You get a lot of PoP spells from tournaments not counting the relics you can use to make more in the MA. Might as well use these. If you have 1 less workshop you can use the PoP spells to allow you to continue doing what you are but with more space for other things like armories or wonders.

Sustainability is key, regardless of your approach. You want to ensure you can continue to "farm" tournaments for specific rewards that will help your town grow and prosper.You just need to be doing it in a way that your supplies, goods, gold, troops are able to do it every week. This way your towns growth is not stifled by your tournament play. If real life means you do less one week that just means more troops/goods for a future tournament.

 

[HJK84]

@Mykan Thanks.

I never run out of goods, I always stock up before and during tournaments. Then leftover goods, I just trade in for the next tournament.
I do run out of troops, every time. Guessing as you mentioned I need to find a way to train troops non-stop. Although, if my calculations are correct, I'd need 5-6 more armories, to do that.
I have what's combat necessary for AW's, as mentioned in previous posts.

I guess, if I'm not going broke on goods, I shouldn't change my style right? Specially since in the future, I will be getting those AW's that help increase training size.
I do think, I'll get rid of a WS', I've got 149 of PoP's just sitting around, and since I have MA lvl 5, during FA events, I'm the one who gets these out faster, unless I get off of Tournaments, depends on the timing.

And as I've said before, my game style is, slow. Upgrading Aw's, before going to next chapter.

 

[samidodamage]

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/how-do-armories-work.15495/#post-95353

@HJK84
Here's a link to a thread where Soggy gave a link to a spreadsheet calculator to help determine what you need to do to improve your ability to train more troops. The thread is about how armories work, may be some other info in there that will help you.

 

[HJK84]

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/how-do-armories-work.15495/#post-95353

@HJK84
Here's a link to a thread where Soggy gave a link to a spreadsheet calculator to help determine what you need to do to improve your ability to train more troops. The thread is about how armories work, may be some other info in there that will help you.

Thanks. Looks like a cool tool, but can't edit to put my own stats into it

 

[SoggyShorts]

Thanks. Looks like a cool tool, but can't edit to put my own stats into it

At the top left click
File>create a copy

 

[DeletedUser5253]

I'm quite new, I've asked my fellow FS' for opinions, now going to ask here.
I have also, read different guides. Haven't found the one I like

I've looked at many players cities, ones who Fight and the ones who Negotiate.

Both have different set ups;
One has more Armories and AW's that help the cause.
Other has many Manus and AW's for different reasons.

The way I see it, pros/cons of Negotiate;
Faster, less clicking/hassle (pro)
Might take up more space (con) <---- Not sure if having 0 Barracks and 0 Armories compensates having 12 Manus.
Can aid friends much better with Goods (con)
Less ranking points (con)
More Goods = faster research advancement and building (pro)

Fight;
More clicking (con)
Might take up less space (pro) <---- Not sure if having 4-6 Armories and less Manus balance each other.
Less helpful in Goods trades for friends (con)
More rank points (pro)
Less Goods = slower research advancement and building (con)
Doesn't use Goods (pro)

Ugh... I'm sure I'm missing alot more thing, lmao.
This is just a middle ground oversight. The pros and cons might differ due to peoples goals.

Is there a middle ground? I enjoy Fighting making troops, but I also sure do love helping out people (my true calling)
From what I've seen and gathered, best option is taking 1 side, all Fight or all Negotiate.
Future; I want to be able to get as far as possible in chests, 10 being the goal of course. Mostly for my boosted Goods, but if FS needs help, I want to give it to them.
Complete all Events... and this time be wiser about it... instead of wasting so many keys on 2017 Winter Set Buildings that will be obsolete eventually, unless game update changes it up a bit.

Any advice?
I'm very active when awake
And 1-2 times a week I'm out playing D&D (I don't/can't use mobile app to game while away from PC)

Spoiler: D&D Joke

P.S.
The select few in my FS have done alot for me, while rest is active or not, I'm keen on staying and helping it grow, if I can...

All opinions are appreciated and welcomed.

-Thanks, James

OMG! Seeing your D&D joke had me rolling. I was a D&D player in the 80's.

I go down the middle for this game. I have 3 Armories and 3 each of my boosted goods. I trade for what I need. This gives me plenty for my city to grow and help my guild/fellowship. I have not ran into a problem except for a couple of the races being soooo slow lol
I also negotiate and fight, depends on what I want or how quick I need to get off the computer.
I have found that doing a lot on the app only makes me mad lol however, for visits, it is awesome.
Take care and I hope you find your groove
Ima

 

[kctanzen]

Does the training size from the Dwarven Bulwark get treated the same as squad size upgrades from the tech tree == specifically in regards to the impact on tournament troop losses and catering costs?
Or am I simply mixing up my terms here.

Thank you for continuing to help remove confusions I have about the game!

 

[SoggyShorts]

@kctanzen
I think you've got it mixed up a little.
The Bulwark is pretty much an armory(only better) While the number of troops it makes and the increase in your training queue is tied to your squad size, even if you skip all optional SS techs as I have, it is still a "must have" military wonder.
For example mine at level 6 increases my training queue by 900, which is more than 3 level 31(max) armories, saving me well over 100 squares of space.

 

[kctanzen]

Thanks much.

p.s. I detest scrolls weeks......

 

[samidodamage]

p.s. I detest scrolls weeks......

Me, too! And I need the relics badly for my Magic Academy so I'm going in hard on this one and it's expensive! But, in 3 days time I've collected 160 relics.

 

[HJK84]

Thanks much.

p.s. I detest scrolls weeks......

Me, too! And I need the relics badly for my Magic Academy so I'm going in hard on this one and it's expensive! But, in 3 days time I've collected 160 relics.

Yes... I hate it also. Don't need it cause I've already maxed out T1-2 boosts.
But I'm always active in Tournaments now, top 5 currently for Scrolls... But I sure do hate it!

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

Besides giving them true and tested battle strategies, I always give this advice
to my fellowship when they are having trouble fighting in the tournaments.

You will need a formidable force to defeat those creatures in the Tournaments, as well as the World Map provinces.
Battles get easier if you Research Promotions, Squad Size Upgrades, & Advanced Scouts.
Upgrade Barracks/Armories to increase training speed & squad size.
Build & upgrade Ancient Wonders that increase health & strength of your troops.

Keep alert for Rangers dropping out of trees. Tread lightly, do not steal honey from bees, and if you can’t intimidate, just negotiate.​