Fight or Negotiate

[HJK84]

I'm always re-analyzing my units at each tournament, lol

For the next one, Elixir. Read a few different options on what units to train.
All say Golem with Range Units. While others say Golems and Treants with some Range Units.

My question is; is this due to the lvl of the unit? Example; lvl 2 Treants + Range Units would be better to use, than lvl 1 Golem + Range Units?

Next question is; I haven't used my lvl 1 Dryads yet. I look at my lvl 2 Archers and the stats are way better Imo. much more health, a tad less max. dmg.
Am I right to always make Archers at my stage? Or is the 30% less dmg from Heavies that my Dryads have balance out the lack in Health, compared to lvl 2 Archers?

Is there a guide that analyzes such things?
If not, I think it would be nice to create, adding in levels of the units and comparing them to other units and their levels.

Once again, thanks for the insight!

 

[kctanzen]

As an elf city, the dryads, in my limited exposure, are *extremely* situational -- highly effective against their specialized foes but much more susceptible to counter attacks by enemy types that specialize against light range. If your barracks light range isn't a level 3 yet, dryads might fit the bill. I didn't start looking at combat in any detail until fairly recently and already had the elite archers, those are likely a better option to base level dryads.

Forgot to add this blurb...

I have all three (barracks / training ground / merc camp) right now. Not all of them are fully upgraded yet however. I rarely queue up anything but cerberus puppies from the training ground. Likewise, blossom mages are pretty much the only thing I train from the mercenary camp. I have been paying closer attention to the upcoming tourneys and usually shift around late Thursday to focus on the next week = dependent on specific losses to key troops of course!

The upgraded armories in orcs (for making supply orcs) and finally getting my barracks almost to chapter max have helped immensely to keep the full training queue at around 10 hours or so. I rarely go that far between sessions however.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

great thread to read folks thanks .. likes for everyone

 

[Mykan]

I'm always re-analyzing my units at each tournament, lol

For the next one, Elixir. Read a few different options on what units to train.
All say Golem with Range Units. While others say Golems and Treants with some Range Units.

My question is; is this due to the lvl of the unit? Example; lvl 2 Treants + Range Units would be better to use, than lvl 1 Golem + Range Units?

Having the right unit type is key to success. More range is usually better than less range, notice tournament difficulty tends to follow the range of units to a degree. Level of the unit has a small impact when comparing within unit-type but across unit types the benefits gained by having the right type will likely well offset any better stats of a 2 star unit verse a 1 star one. Obviously these are generic tips and you need to analyse further if you want to know when to tailor your strategy.

The enemy is 2 light melee, 1 light range and 1 heavy melee. There are too many combinations and map possibilities to cover so will just look at each unit type and you can figure out how to mix-n-match. Try to go 5 of one type if you can if using auto-fight.

Heavy Range

• Preferred choice - good against 3 of the 4 enemies
• Keep away from the heavy melee
• Has a specialist hunter for both light range and light melee or just use barracks unit

Heavy Melee

• Reasonable choice - Good against 2, neutral to 1, weak to 1
• Avoid light range enemies
• Can use as a meat-shield if manual fighting and terrain suits it as a tactic.
• I believe light melee enemies target them as a preferred choice (haven't recently checked to see if AI has changed this)
• Lack of range is usually a problem but except for light range all enemies have to be in close so not really an issue in this province

Light range

• Reasonable choice - Good against 1 and neutral to 1 while weak to 2
• Has a ranged attack, most enemies don't So can use cover to avoid attacks.
• One of the light melee is a specialist light range hunter - avoid fights with these units
• Includes a specialist heavy melee hunter - dryad
• Despite been weak to 2 enemy units the combination with another ranged unit (golem, mortar) can minimise the dangers

Light melee

• Ok choice - Good against 1, neutral to 2 and weak against 1.
• Has a specialist light range hunter - Drone rider
• Lack of range can be an issue
• Neutral to most enemies rather than a bonus

Mage

• Poor choice - Good against 1, weak against 3
• If your fight is mostly heavy melee then this can be a good choice
• Has a specialist heavy melee hunter - blossom mage
• Has range over enemies need to be in close
• Humans may find more opportunity for 1 in certain fights. The bonuses of a level 3 priest and the long range to apply them can help a fight despite the risks of a mage in this province.

It is always simpler to just train 1 or 2 units and dump them in every time but there will be times when the enemy composition can make this approach weaker if not bad, ie all heavy melee for this province would make a golem a bad idea but a mage a great one.

It can be difficult to say when your better to use the specialist units over the others, I suggest having a few on hand and experiment with them. Especially earlier in the game when training times between the buildings are similar. I avoid training grounds units now, not because of the units but it takes me nearly double the time for one stack of those verse the merc camp or barracks. When your training is that disparate you have to consider training time in addition to troop ability.

If you do have some specialists on hand and have lost a round with barracks units try switching in some specialists and see what happens. Again there are so many combinations so you are best to experiment from time to time and learn what works for you. I do find I always look each tournament as to who my specialist is and start training those before my barracks troops. This tournament I am not using the faienant frogs though as I feel my mortars/golems will be better (due to stats) but I expect this will change as soon as the frog promotion to 2 stars turns up in the tech tree.

Next question is; I haven't used my lvl 1 Dryads yet. I look at my lvl 2 Archers and the stats are way better Imo. much more health, a tad less max. dmg.
Am I right to always make Archers at my stage? Or is the 30% less dmg from Heavies that my Dryads have balance out the lack in Health, compared to lvl 2 Archers?

Is there a guide that analyzes such things?
If not, I think it would be nice to create, adding in levels of the units and comparing them to other units and their levels.

Once again, thanks for the insight!

The simplest thing is to compare the stats like you have. If they are close I would give them a shot in some fights and see how they go. Typically I find the specialised units do better against their speciality than barracks unit regardless of levels (there are exceptions). When the unit levels are comparing a 3 star to 1 star it can be better to use the more general 3 star but again you need to look at the stats as it isn't always that clear cut.

 

[samidodamage]

I'm always re-analyzing my units at each tournament, lol

I do the same, but a bit further along than you. All my barracks troops are now 3 star. But, I'm still going to train up a few 1 star Orc Warriors (heavy melee; same movement and range as Treant). Even at 3 star, my Treants only have a 40% defense buff to those Ancient Orcs and no attack bonus. The Orc Warrior has a 30% defense buff, but a 70% attack bonus against light melee. He'll be useful, I'm sure. I also have an old Grounds of the Orc Strategist producing a few of those guys. They're a heavy range unit, a light range specialist with a 70% defense buff and a 60% attack bonus against them. Sure, the strength of his attack and his health are factors, but it costs me nothing to train them. He may be useful in early rounds with light range and fewer light melee. Early rounds should also have drone riders in place of Ancient Orcs, and IIRC they do less damage to him than the Ancient Orcs. I find these both of these units useful especially in the early rounds of the tournament and the next round or 2 of the lower provinces as well. It allows for less of the barracks troops needing to be replaced if nothing else.
While I was typing this up, Mykan posted an excellent summary of all the things you have to consider when looking at available units.

It can be difficult to say when your better to use the specialist units over the others, I suggest having a few on hand and experiment with them. Especially earlier in the game when training times between the buildings are similar.

I do like discussing these various strategies for the training and use of the different units in different circumstances.
I've also found uses for the Drone Rider, Banshee, and Vallorian Guards (also get those from an old event bldg, so it's only a few and they're best against Heavy Range). Of course, the Blossom Mage has the more obvious range advantages over the Sorceresses, but the Sorceress also has her place. She can take damage better than the Blossoms. In situations where the mage is going to take damage, sometimes the Sorceress lasts just enough longer to pull out a win.
Like Mykan said, trial and error has helped me become more comfortable with what the various units can do. I just wouldn't automatically dismiss the alternate facility units because of the one star; they have their uses and their specialties are usually enough to match them against more advanced 2 and 3 star enemy units, it just depends, lol!

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

You will need a formidable force to defeat those nefarious creatures in the Tournaments, as well as the World Map provinces. Battles get easier if you Research Promotions, Squad Size Upgrades, & Advanced Scouts. Upgrade Barracks/Armories to increase training speed & squad size. Build & upgrade Ancient Wonders that increase health & strength of your troops.

Keep alert for Rangers dropping out of trees. Tread lightly, do not steal honey from bees, and if you can’t intimidate, don’t stress just negotiate.​

Here are a few successful battle tactics I’ve learned when competing in the tournaments. I’ve been busy learning farming techniques from the Fairy Guest Race. Haven’t built their Mercenary Camp yet. Who would ever think these tiny winged creatures can fight? But they can if they ride into battle on a bumblebee that has a poison sting. Their Drone Riders are best against light ranged units. Their Blossom Mage is an enchantress and is best using her Fairy magic against heavy melee units. Her magic produces an allergic reaction. Enemy units can't concentrate on fighting if they’re sneezing or itching.

(ELVES) EIXIR TOURNAMENT

Sorceress II (36), Cerberus II (576) & 3 Granite Golems (288 total) vs 6 Bandits (380 each), Drone Rider (190) & Orc General (190)
Units become much stronger when they level up. They become Bud Sorceress, Cerberus II, Granite Golem, Elite Archer, Sword Acrobat & Treant II, III.

I’m starting to like these dwarves. They designed armor for my Golems and now they are Granite Golems with a special ability called Shield Slicer.
They can throw a sharp crystal to slice through the enemy’s armor and lower its protection for 3 rounds.

Have a Sorceress II and a Cerberus II tag along with 3 Granite Golems. The enemy will be concentrating their fire power on the Sorceress and Cerberus, not aware that those boulders on the battlefield will become powerful Golems when they come to life. One hit from Granite Golems takes down all the Light Melee and Light Ranged Units they target on the battlefield.

Golems don’t like Orcs so don’t worry about the Orc General. What you have to worry about is getting them bunched up together. Golems won’t attack if they can’t move or maybe they just don’t want to hit their fellow Golems in the heads with their rocks.

Golem, Sorceress & Treant vs Orc & Cerberus
A Treant’s swipe can make a Cerberus yipe. Make sure your Sorceress casts spells to weaken the enemy’s attacks. A Treant has a Defense Bonus against Light Melee Units but a Sorceress does not so try to keep the Treants in front to protect her.

Archer, Golem, Sorceress & Treant vs 3 Orcs, 2 Swamp Monsters & 1 Thief
Keep your distance from Swamp Monsters, use ranged attacks to subdue the enemy, and have your Sorceress cast spells to weaken the enemy’s attack by -50% for two rounds. If the spells work, the Swamp Monsters won’t inflict any damage on your units.

One Golem can easily take care of the Thief and Orcs (light melee units). Your Archer and Sorceress get an attack bonus against heavy melee. Have them target the Swamp Monsters, and your Sorceress cast the Broken Valor spell on as many enemy units to weaken them as she can, without getting too close. The Orcs will start to come after her. Treants can come to her rescue. Keep them close to protect her.

Finally, a battle I won! The 1 Golem and 2 Treants were great. The Treants were able to maneuver to protect the Archer and Sorceress so they could use their ranged attacks without being in danger. When the Golem finished pelting the Orcs with rocks, he joined in on the ranged attacks against the Swamp Monsters. The Treants surrounded the remaining Swamp Monster, and with a few swipes turned him into a pond creature.

(HUMANS) EIXIR TOURNAMENT

Crossbowmen, Paladin & Priest vs Swamp Monster & Thief
Units become much stronger when they level up. They become Master Crowbowmen, Blessed Paladin, Priest II, Mortar II, Storm Barbarian & Cerberus II.

Keep your distance from Swamp Monsters, use terrain to your advantage (staying behind rocks and trees). Have your Paladin concentrate on getting rid of the Thief. Don’t let the Thief near your Crossbowmen nor your Priest.

Use ranged attacks to subdue the enemy, and have your Priest cast spells to increase incoming damage on the enemy by +40% for two rounds.
If the spells work, the Swamp Monsters won’t inflict any damage on your Crossbowmen and Paladins, in case they get too close for comfort.

NO VALLORIAN GUARDS? NO PROBLEM.
The Vallorian Guards are Heavy Melee Units who can Strike Back. They also can attack one space away and won’t get a retaliation hit unless the enemy unit can strike back. If you do not have any of these lizard warriors in your city, Elves can bring into battle Treants and Humans can take along some Paladins, both of which can strike back, if they’re level 2.

RANGED vs RANGED
If you’re battling Mist Walker IIs, Rangers and Orc Deserters, which are ranged units, it’s always best to bring ranged units into the fray so your troops will not be too badly harmed when they walk away. Your heavy ranged units in dwarven armor dressed, will become powerful Granite Golems after you unlock a dwarven quest.

GOLEM & SORCERESS
Did you know that Golems and Sorceress make a great combination? The Golem is skilled at light melee/ranged & has a 50% defense bonus when defending against light ranged units. When Golems wear their granite armor, they receive a Special Ability: Shield Slicer. A sharp crystal slices the enemy’s armor and lowers protection for 3 rounds.

The Sorceress is skilled at heavy melee/ranged & has a 60% attack & defense bonus against heavy melee; 70% attack & 50% defense bonus against heavy ranged units. A Sorceress can also cast the Broken Valor spell, lowering the enemy’s attack 50% for 2 rounds. But I do not advise bringing a Sorceress into battle when Rangers are on the battlefield. Rangers are lethal when facing Mages & have an 80% attack & defense bonus against them.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

I have trained a Bud Sorceress (Mage) and she now has two spells she can cast in battle. Her Broken Valor spell decreases enemy strength -50% for 2 rounds, and her Leaden Arms spell decreases enemy defense -20% for 2 rounds. The description of the Leaden Arms spell says, “He who hears the words of this spell can’t lift his arms.” I hope her fellow warriors are covering their ears when she uses this spell.

ELIXIR TOURNAMENT (ELVES)

My troops: 1 squad each of Elite Archers, Cerberus II & Bud Sorceress, 2 squads of Granite Golems vs
the enemy units: 1 squad of Bandits, 3 squads each of Drone Riders & Orc Generals

Light ranged units have high initiative so they go first but when I see many Drone Riders, I hold back my Elite Archers because they could be surrounded by the Drone Riders and stung to death. Yiii! The enemy Bandits are not so smart so they charge into battle. Now all the rest of my units can target the Bandits. The Cerberus II will get the retaliation hit first but he can take it.

When the ranged units are removed from battle, my units can now concentrate on swatting those fairies riding bees. Orcs are best at fighting Light Melee units so I immediately have my Cerberuses fall back. Golems don’t care for Orcs so together with the help of my mage units, they easily defeat those Orc Generals before they can do serious damage to my Cerberuses.

 

[SoggyShorts]

New
You will need a formidable force to defeat those nefarious creatures in the Tournaments, as well as the World Map provinces. Battles get easier if you Research Promotions, Squad Size Upgrades, & Advanced Scouts.
.

A quick correction here: All of those things help on the world map, but specifically squad size upgrades do not help in tournaments. In fact since they make both your squad sizes and the enemy's squad size bigger by an equal amount, all they do is increase your losses.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

Here's another tried and true battle tactic for us Humans

ELIXIR TOURNAMENT (HUMANS)

1 squad each of Master Crossbowmen, Cerberus II & Priest II, 2 squads of Mortar II vs
1 squad of Thieves, Bandits & Drone Riders, 2 squads of Orc Generals

Keep Master Crossbowmen & Priests out of the range of Thieves. Cerberus is about even fighting hand to hand or I should say hand to fang with light melee units so have them target those Thieves, blocking their way from getting near your ranged & mage units.

Mortars are best fighting light melee and light ranged units. Have them get rid of the light ranged Bandits.

Orc Generals are advancing so slow em down a bit. Your Priests can cast a Divine Curse spell lowering their defense -40% for 2 rounds.

Mortars can finish off the Thieves and target those Drone Riders who are getting too close to your Priests.

Your Master Crossbowmen should target the Orc Generals while they’re under a spell lowering their defense. That leaves one more squad of Orc Generals to deal with. Keep your Cerberuses away from them because Orcs are best at fighting light melee units.

Priests can put a spell on the remaining Orc Generals but that might put them in range of the Drone Riders. I would move the Priests out of the range of the Drone Riders & cast a spell on the Orcs next turn.

You may need to decide to take a chance and have your Cerberuses attack the Drone Riders but they’re going to get stung because Drone Riders strike back. You would also be putting Cerberuses in the range of the Orc Generals so they will be hit twice.

I would have them fall back. The Orc Generals are slow so between your Master Crossbowmen and Mortars, they should be able to take them out. Then have your Mortars target the Drone Riders. If successful, they are removed from the battlefield.

Now have your Master Crossbowman, Priests and Mortars target those Orc Generals. If there’s only 2 or 3 hit points left, you could let your Cerberuses finish them off. Success! You’ve won the battle & only your Cerberus took a small amount of damage when he attacked the Thieves because they can strike back.

 

[Heming]

What is a power or provision. I need one to complete a task

 

[Ashrem]

Power of Provision is a spell that increases the production of your Workshops. It is made in the magic Academy, or sometimes found in chests when you help your neighbours in the desktop version.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

What is a power or provision. I need one to complete a task

The Forum Topic: Enchant Your World With Spells should be able to help you understand spells. Here's the Forum link.
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/enchant-your-world-with-spells.2102/

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

is there a break down on the training times ?? as i am upgrading it just says training time 5 or 11 etc...??? i looked in wiki but it did the same on the breakdowns for training time just an increasing number with no troops and actual times ...not a front burner problem but if there is an actual so many of these at star level such and such takes this many minutes for me would be more helpful than training time =11

 

[Ashrem]

If you hover over each unit, the pop-up shows the cost and time to train one and the time to train a full stack. My golems train at 18seconds each for 87 supplies. A full stack of 504 takes 2 hours and 32 minutes.

There's no generic table, because it depends on several factors including AWs, the level of your barracks, etc.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

yeah i figured as much but never hurts to ask

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

wiki suggests only doing enough provinces to get to next level on tech tree and uses orcs level as an example of the perils of overdoing provinces on map, which i have ignored for extra expansions for the moment to grow faster with extra goods production...i tend to have 8 provinces scouted and working to expand in multiple directions on world map...so questions are (1) is there a max number of provinces you can have scouted and working at any time (2) what is it with orcs level i have seen nothing good about it in forums and even wiki used it as a caution ? oh p.s. i'm in level 3 so it'll be awhile to get there

 

[DeletedUser188]

hvariidh gwendrot
1.There isn't a max # of provinces you can scout and conquer only strength of army and lack of resources can stop you
Around ring 10(I think its been so long) or 222 provinces you cant negotiate provinces without orcs
Orcs are produced in a level 20 or higher armory that you unlock in Orc chapt or Orc nest which is an event prize
2. I didn't have a problem with Orcs chapter myself so really cant help you other than when the Orc chapter first released
Most of the complaints I remember varied from players
There were those that didn't want to be forced to produce Orcs (they didn't want to be slave holders)
Others didn't like the looks of the buildings or the Orcs themselves flinging dung around their cities
While some didn't like that they no longer could race to the end of chapter only to have to wait for next

Here are some of the posts from around the time orcs was 1st released July 19 2016
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/orcs-in-province-sector-negotiation.3282/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/some-strange-developments.2881/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/cities-looking-like-slums-now.3301/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/orc-planning.3249/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/armory-what-armory.3696/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....icial-word-on-the-orc-limitation-please.3746/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/orc-workshops-opinions-wanted.3573/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....y-through-orcs-the-beginning-of-the-end.3700/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/frustration-with-orc-requirement.3709/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/having-to-have-orcs-to-finish-provinces.3961/
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/a-place-to-discuss-orcs-gobblins.3382/

 

[samidodamage]

There is not a max number of provinces you can have scouted/working at the same time. There's a lot of things going on with the Orc chapter stuff, but regarding scouting: When you get to the Orc chapter, you'll get techs to upgrade your armories to lvl 20. Level 20 armories produce orcs (sometimes call orc heads to distinguish them from the Orc troops), just like factories produce goods. You will need those orcs to negotiate world map provinces in ring 10 and beyond from your city (as well as workshop upgrades and to train Orc troops in your Training Camp). If you reach ring 10 before you can produce them, you won't be able to move forward. Since provinces get more expensive/harder to fight the further away from your city, it is likely that you will have surpassed your ability to clear them with combat either, so you'd be stuck on the map until you get there in the tech tree. Slowing your scouting now until you 'catch up' in the tech tree will help keep you from hitting this hard stop in province scouting.
edit to add: Andrew420 gave a few more examples of other issues with the Orcs chapter

 

[SoggyShorts]

Here are some of the posts from around the time orcs was 1st released July 19 2016

Solid list, it is worth noting that there was a long gap between the release of fairies and the release of orcs, so many players filled their cities with max level buildings, and were super mad that they had to delete some to make room for settlement buildings. Now most players know better and reserve a chunk of their city for the guest races.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

what is it with orcs level

The only problem I have with Orcs is you will need them to negotiate (if you can't fight) when you get to the Very Hard Provinces. Every province in all of the first 10 rings can be negotiated without trading Orcs. It wasn't always that way. Think Inno through those Orcs in to slow us down from overscouting. There was no warning about overscouting when I first started playing Elvenar.

I found out about overscouting from the knowledgeable players on this forum but by then, it was too late. I was still in the Dwarves chapter and found myself in Ring 11 (Very Hard Provinces). In the Very Hard provinces, armies are much stronger to defeat. You can’t negotiate unless you have Orcs to trade. Your only option is to buy diamonds or wait until you reach the Orcs chapter. I've learned from my mistakes on Beta and only "Solve Encounters" when it's required to complete an event quest.