First trip to the top of the Spire...woot!...typical performance?

[ElfGunn]

I just completed.my first trip to the top of the Spire (woot!). I fought to the first gate, then catered the rest of the way.

There are about 35 (?) encounters after the first gate, and I had to buy extra rounds about 8 times. Is that about par for the course?

 

[Blindsider66]

That's excellent. Not many players can go over the top, and I know of none to do it without using diamonds. The rewards should be nice after the Spire closes tomorrow. You did far better than me this week.

Peace
Blindsider66

 

[Alpha Lyrae]

Congrats! If you want to conserve diamonds and goods, you can leave a negotiation that isn't going well and start over. For example, if my first negotiation attempt doesn't eliminate at least one good, then I leave the negotiation and start over. You may find this post helpful, too.

 

[Kekune]

I just completed.my first trip to the top of the Spire (woot!). I fought to the first gate, then catered the rest of the way.

There are about 35 (?) encounters after the first gate, and I had to buy extra rounds about 8 times. Is that about par for the course?

Congrats. I typically choose to lose goods by trying again rather than spend the diamonds. I usually don't buy an extra round more than twice...maaaaybe three times. But I generally do have at least 8 opportunities to buy more, so sounds like you're doing alright.

 

[ajqtrz]

I cater the whole thing each week and 8 is pretty good. On balance I lose about 75 diamonds a week after collecting the ones from our fellowship and the random ones I win. It's worth that to me. I could lose less if I followed Alpha Lyrae's advice, which is pretty darn good, but I'm too lazy.

AJ

 

[DeletedUser20010]

Congrats! I am an autofighter. I have found if you produce the military helps in the magic academy, and feed your fire Phoenix (if you have one) you can usually easily fight your way. If I am doing a negotiation week. I second what others have said. I only use diamonds if I know the next guess for sure, and if I know I will regain it..i.e. My fellowship will win the 50 diamonds, or there are two slots left with the yellow hint and I know my guesses just have to switch slots.
Exciting though, and I am sure it is the first of many.
Edit* I have over 5000 diamonds and have never purchased one, mainly from spire and genie, and winning a prize on forum contest

 

[Gladiola]

I don't use the diamonds. I just start the negotiation over. I have to do that about half the time in the laboratory and above but rarely before that.

I also proactively close the negotiation after the first try if I don't get some of the resources eliminated and just start over.

 

[ElfGunn]

Congrats! If you want to conserve diamonds and goods, you can leave a negotiation that isn't going well and start over. For example, if my first negotiation attempt doesn't eliminate at least one good, then I leave the negotiation and start over. You may find this post helpful, too.

As a matter of fact, I did that once, for the first time ever, during my run. I had read about that in another post, but it took awhile for me to be convinced. I was lucky during the final run to the top; on the last station, I think I got 1 green and 3 reds on my first offer.

 

[ElfGunn]

Congrats! I am an autofighter. I have found if you produce the military helps in the magic academy, and feed your fire Phoenix (if you have one) you can usually easily fight your way. If I am doing a negotiation week. I second what others have said. I only use diamonds if I know the next guess for sure, and if I know I will regain it..i.e. My fellowship will win the 50 diamonds, or there are two slots left with the yellow hint and I know my guesses just have to switch slots.
Exciting though, and I am sure it is the first of many.
Edit* I have over 5000 diamonds and have never purchased one, mainly from spire and genie, and winning a prize on forum contest

I have the fire phoenix Stage 5, and it is fed for the tournament. Also (this week) 2 Magnificent Mages and 1 Unlimited Unit. And my Needles is 8*. This is enough to allow me to auto fight through 10 or 11 provinces in the tournament for all rounds. But I find the odds stacked against me for fighting in the Spire, what with being vastly outnumbered in squad size and 2 or 3 waves of enemies. Which means I lose more troops than I can afford.

 

[Alpha Lyrae]

@michmarc linked to a handy spreadsheet he created in this post.

 

[crackie]

I've tried various Spire tactics. I've been catering it until I came across Shyama1 (former #1 tourney player on Ceravyn) mentioning the top of the spire is about equivalent to province 15* in tourney. Well, I can fight province 15* with no problems, so I thought maybe I can fight the Spire without buffs too then. I had a fed Fire Chicken, which at the time was only at Level 5. When I won, I realized the Spire just got a whole lot cheaper if it's only going to cost one pet food and extra units. It does mean I have to be able to handle 16 extra province 15* encounters though. I don't have the troops to go deep in tourney and autofight the whole spire yet, and troop priority is for tourney since they stretch further there. Now I autofight Gateway, cater High Halls, and manual fight the Lab with only a fed Fire Chicken.

I will say don't get deterred by the gate bosses that take 3 waves to defeat. As a manual fighter, I've observed those are actually EASIER to fight than the 2-wave chests before them. This is because each enemy unit is a lot wimpier and die quicker. The 2-wave enemies are like walking zombies that keep coming at you after unloading entire clips on them because they have very high health. The 3-wave enemies sometimes only take a double tap to move on to next one. I can practically skip to the 3rd wave with most of my troops in tact, but they take heavy damage when doing the 2-wave fights. If you have to pick and choose your fights due to army limitations, give fighting the bosses a go, especially since they are even harder to cater.

 

[Darielle]

I just completed.my first trip to the top of the Spire (woot!). I fought to the first gate, then catered the rest of the way.

There are about 35 (?) encounters after the first gate, and I had to buy extra rounds about 8 times. Is that about par for the course?

For your first time, you did fantastically. As you gain experience, you'll know when to keep going after the first choice and when to walk away and start over. (Why does that remind me of a Kenny Rogers song? lol) In any case, I don't buy extra rounds except under all three of the following conditions: 1, It's a guy standing at a door, not just in the room, since those are the hardest ones. 2, I have a guaranteed win if I use 25 diamonds. and 3, I'm just tired of withdrawing and antsy to get it over with. Never any other time. I'd rather walk away if I don't get something good on the first guess (not green check marks ... I hate those on the first guess.) I just keep starting over if the first guess gives me something bad, rather than keeping on going.

But yeah, you did great ... better than I did on the first try. Congrats!

 

[Darielle]

I've tried various Spire tactics. I've been catering it until I came across Shyama1 (former #1 tourney player on Ceravyn) mentioning the top of the spire is about equivalent to province 15* in tourney. Well, I can fight province 15* with no problems, so I thought maybe I can fight the Spire without buffs too then. I had a fed Fire Chicken, which at the time was only at Level 5. When I won, I realized the Spire just got a whole lot cheaper if it's only going to cost one pet food and extra units. It does mean I have to be able to handle 16 extra province 15* encounters though. I don't have the troops to go deep in tourney and autofight the whole spire yet, and troop priority is for tourney since they stretch further there. Now I autofight Gateway, cater High Halls, and manual fight the Lab with only a fed Fire Chicken.

I will say don't get deterred by the gate bosses that take 3 waves to defeat. As a manual fighter, I've observed those are actually EASIER to fight than the 2-wave chests before them. This is because each enemy unit is a lot wimpier and die quicker. The 2-wave enemies are like walking zombies that keep coming at you after unloading entire clips on them because they have very high health. The 3-wave enemies sometimes only take a double tap to move on to next one. I can practically skip to the 3rd wave with most of my troops in tact, but they take heavy damage when doing the 2-wave fights. If you have to pick and choose your fights due to army limitations, give fighting the bosses a go, especially since they are even harder to cater.

I think it's a matter of luck as well. The three wave fights are always harder for me than the two wave. Perhaps it depends on your level or other factors. I just know that province 15 on the tourney is a piece of cake even with no buffs (except feeding chicken), while fighting in the lab is always super tough without buffs. I once had seven 5-day buildings out (3 uu, 2 mage and 2 elr) and fed the chicken in order to do the lab, and I still lost the fights (autofights, being careful about choosing the right troops ... just like I do in Tourney and always waste the enemies). So I think it's luck or some combination of things. It may be wonder levels, too, that count. I have a level 12 martial monastery, but my needles is not very leveled up. And I don't have shrooms, which some people swear by. So maybe that's it.

 

[Henroo]

I have the fire phoenix Stage 5, and it is fed for the tournament. Also (this week) 2 Magnificent Mages and 1 Unlimited Unit. And my Needles is 8*. This is enough to allow me to auto fight through 10 or 11 provinces in the tournament for all rounds. But I find the odds stacked against me for fighting in the Spire, what with being vastly outnumbered in squad size and 2 or 3 waves of enemies. Which means I lose more troops than I can afford.

That sounds like a pretty good set-up for a week's fighting. Do you have the Martial Monastery/Sanctuary (name changes depending on if you are playing as a human or an elf, but it works the same for both) AW? And if so, what level is it? I think this AW is one of the must-haves if you want to pursue a fighting oriented strategy.

 

[ElfGunn]

That sounds like a pretty good set-up for a week's fighting. Do you have the Martial Monastery/Sanctuary (name changes depending on if you are playing as a human or an elf, but it works the same for both) AW? And if so, what level is it? I think this AW is one of the must-haves if you want to pursue a fighting oriented strategy.

I have it ready to go, 1*, just waiting for space available. Per your advice, I will prioritize...just so many choices.

 

[ElfGunn]

I've tried various Spire tactics. I've been catering it until I came across Shyama1 (former #1 tourney player on Ceravyn) mentioning the top of the spire is about equivalent to province 15* in tourney. Well, I can fight province 15* with no problems, so I thought maybe I can fight the Spire without buffs too then. I had a fed Fire Chicken, which at the time was only at Level 5. When I won, I realized the Spire just got a whole lot cheaper if it's only going to cost one pet food and extra units. It does mean I have to be able to handle 16 extra province 15* encounters though. I don't have the troops to go deep in tourney and autofight the whole spire yet, and troop priority is for tourney since they stretch further there. Now I autofight Gateway, cater High Halls, and manual fight the Lab with only a fed Fire Chicken.

I will say don't get deterred by the gate bosses that take 3 waves to defeat. As a manual fighter, I've observed those are actually EASIER to fight than the 2-wave chests before them. This is because each enemy unit is a lot wimpier and die quicker. The 2-wave enemies are like walking zombies that keep coming at you after unloading entire clips on them because they have very high health. The 3-wave enemies sometimes only take a double tap to move on to next one. I can practically skip to the 3rd wave with most of my troops in tact, but they take heavy damage when doing the 2-wave fights. If you have to pick and choose your fights due to army limitations, give fighting the bosses a go, especially since they are even harder to cater.

I play exclusively on mobile, so I am limited to auto fight. If not for that I would certainly try manual fighting.

 

[Henroo]

I have it ready to go, 1*, just waiting for space available. Per your advice, I will prioritize...just so many choices.

Keep in mind that in addition to the toughness boost to troops, Martial Monastery/Sanctuary also provides you with culture. If you have any pure culture buildings, it might be possible to create space for the AW by deleting them. Generally I think this AW outperforms most pure culture buildings on a space for space basis once you level it a few times. And this is just in terms of culture. When you also consider the toughness bonus to all troops, it is truly great.

 

[crackie]

I think it's a matter of luck as well. The three wave fights are always harder for me than the two wave. Perhaps it depends on your level or other factors. I just know that province 15 on the tourney is a piece of cake even with no buffs (except feeding chicken), while fighting in the lab is always super tough without buffs. I once had seven 5-day buildings out (3 uu, 2 mage and 2 elr) and fed the chicken in order to do the lab, and I still lost the fights (autofights, being careful about choosing the right troops ... just like I do in Tourney and always waste the enemies).

Generally speaking, if I have that many 5-day buffs down AND I've fed Fire Chicken, but still get snagged autofighting an encounter, I'll go into manual fight to see what's up. It's usually your troops getting ensnared by the terrain rather than that they aren't strong enough. Of course, you can't see the terrain on the app to adjust troop selection accordingly. A super common autofighting snafu setup is what I call "the funnel". There are variants depending on where the entrance/exit shows up. Sometimes it's in the middle, but the most dreadful for autofighting is when it's on the side. I have limited access to examples with no tourney right now, but I have one in which the enemy is in the funnel. So flip the board and same issues apply. Essentially, everything breaks...good matchups, initiative advantages, and buffs.

At first glance, you can already tell they'll be sitting ducks and a lot of things will go wrong.

• Orc strategists are great against archers on paper, but their attack can't reach archers with the barrier. Archers can hit them though! It will take him 2 turns to get out of the funnel. Multiple archers focused on him will have him dead before he's within range to retaliate!
• This is a 2-tile wide funnel, but there will be 2 choke points and one of them is in the middle of the funnel. Therefore, there are 2 traffic jams to clear before units can get out. If you have melee units, it will be very problematic as they need to be next to an enemy to fire. AI also doesn't know to single file people out based on their initiative order either. Sometimes the last to move is at the front of the train and when he stops, everyone after him basically have to skip a turn and can't do anything when it's their turn. Sitting ducks. It accelerates if they are nerfing your attack and breaking armor with each hit too, so your units will be fighting with wet noodles by the time they get out of the funnel.
• Archers go first in initiative order and have all the movement in the world, but she will be the last one out (ignoring rocket guys since they don't leave the back line). One of the biggest assets archers offer is that they do attack first, but they've lost that advantage. If you keep the fight on the other side, she can't reach anyone on her turns either.
• Heavy melees are the worst suited for this terrain. They only move two tiles at a time, take forever to get out, and block out everyone behind them. Even a Level 20 Heroes' Forge won't help if they never reach the enemy! Similarly, your Fire Chicken and buffs (except UUU) are mostly nullified if no one can attack.
• [not pictured] If there is an enemy puppy, he can usually reach the entrance/exit on his first move. Sometimes it's the dang puppy that clogs up the exit, but AI won't necessarily focus on killing the dog first to clear the traffic jam.

If you leaned on more heavy melee to deal with 2 heavy range and 2 heavy melee, you'd be so screwed facing a funnel, despite all the buffs! Same if you picked orc strategists or golems against archers. Those matchups look good on paper but won't work with the terrain. The funnel is also an example of how I'd pick units differently manual fighting versus autofighting. Manual fighting, I would know to use the funnel as a castle and defend, letting the enemy come to me. I'd use a lot of long range (blossoms, frogs, archers), snipering them down in order of the fastest movement. Autofighting vs 2 heavy range and 2 heavy melee, I'd prob go with a mix of short range mages (banshees/sorceress) and archers because AI only knows how to attack. They need to have high movement to get out of the funnel very fast.

 

[crackie]

Btw, this is taken from @MinMax Gamer's Spire Progression page. If you look at the last encounter of each segment for Lab, which is the gate bosses, it's the only ones where your troops outnumber the enemies. Hence, it supports my observation that they're actually easier to fight, despite being 3 waves. If you outnumber them, you will kill each enemy unit faster and thereby take less damage. Killing faster effect is multiplied if you have 5-day buildings down or a fed Fire Chicken. If you finish wave 1 with minimal damage, you carry the advantage of outnumbering the enemy into the second wave too. By the 3rd wave, you might still have the advantage or be a slight underdog again, but then you'd only be fighting underhanded for one wave. The non-boss encounters with 2-wave are slugfests because you're an underdog for both waves.