FS Badge Pools instead of Individual Badge Pools

[Darielle]

Did you even read my post? Because if you did I don’t understand how you could miss waypoints if you take “ALL THREE ROADS ON ALL THREE MAPS”? Also I’m not just talking out of my behind. While my FS is no where near the top we placed amazingly well for our size, and the reason we did is bc we did exactly what I posted in the post you obviously skimmed. Just because my tag in here may say new that does not mean I am new to the game. And also one of my fellow members main city is in enchanted light. I believe they took 5th? Probably higher I didn’t keep close track. They are also not the only member in my fs that has a main city in one of the top cities. I’m not guessing. I’m speaking from the knowledge I have gained from very experienced players. AND another thing besides the player from EL the other very experienced players saw how we handled the FA before this one and were blown away by our communication and planning and strategies and we never used excel sheets.

I see you are new to the forum. Most rude people do not last very long here. Just FYI. But there's no need to continue this. I'll withdraw ... have a nice day.

 

[JessMac]

I see you are new to the forum. Most rude people do not last very long here. Just FYI. But there's no need to continue this. I'll withdraw ... have a nice day.

You lasted. Your first quote on my first post was very rude. But have a great night.

 

[JessMac]

If the over all idea is not agreed upon, a smaller more simple adjustment could be tried. Simply leave the individual pools as they are, AND add a FS Badge Pool. And allow each player to decide for themselves if they want to hold on to there own badges or place t

This part is an amazing idea. Problem is that just because that badge has been completed doesn’t mean that that actual player is participating in the FA. Even if they collect the badge. And this is why this will never be considered. But I do love the idea.

 

[Lelanya]

@Dominionofgod
I still have to vote against you for creation of rank above mage. That is completely unnecessary as there are too many who've been given the power to remove another player as it is.
I would find the checkmark option acceptable.

 

[ajqtrz]

That idea is based on being able to replace a player if they were booted. On a more populated server that had enough ppl looking for fs, then that might be possible. On other servers where its more slim pickings, it can take weeks or even months to replace a single player; much less multiples. In that event then the desision has to be made of whether you want a somewhat active player who makes mistakes, or do you want to boot them and possibly spend the next 2-6 months trying to find a suitable replacement. And if the fs is on the fense for 10 chests or gold medal.. then that becomes even harder.


That assumes that 1, they give a damn. And 2, they actually read the message that was sent to them. If the problem was that they didnt read the first message and follwo instructions, then there is a decent chance that sending them a message with instructions will not be the cure for that problem. - There are also some players that never look at messages. Iv seen a few of them. They ignore all messages equally; event, kp, personal. They just dont bother. And those ppl tend to not be active in chat either. Communicating then becomes very hard. Iv had players like this. And no matter what the problem is, if there is zero communication that it doesnt matter what you say, it wont help. And suddenly your back to that binary choice of keep them and work around them, or boot them. Which leads back to the start of the paragraph above.

Now granted, all of that is a huge issue all on its own (outside of the FA), but atleast it becomes much less of an issue during the FA with a FS Badge Pool.

On the recruitment side I do find you have a point. It has become harder to recruit people on Khelonaar. I find I need to contact about 10 active players to get even a nibble. My "secret" is that I don't go after players who are not in fellowships. What?! you ask. I find inactive fellowships with 1 or 2 active players still left and that's who I contact. (Opps, I just told my secret! Can you not tell anyone?)

As for caring, there's a lot of distance between "do you care?" and "goodbye I just kicked you." I find the personal touch works. I contact them several times and not just for the "problem." Sometimes I start by asking them for her personal opinion about things. Sometimes I notice they do/did X well and praise them for it. Sometimes I even look at the city and make suggestions! The key, I think, to getting people to care about the fellowship is to insure they understand the fellowship cares about them. It notices a good job. Wants to hear from them, and so on. Changing people's behaviors isn't a single msg -- "battle" -- it's a long, protracted "war" with many, many "battles," so to speak. It's a campaign. So take a breath and be cosistent and you'll get your people going in the right direction.

AJ

 

[The Fairy]

I think there are two parts to your suggestions:
1. Show the badge count for the whole fs
2. Have everyone donate to a pool of badges that only a few can place on the map/pit

As for 1, then I think it is similar (though not completely identical) to a suggestion I made some time ago, so I will vote yes to that part: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....or-fs-members-after-spire-has-finished.27281/

But with the FS Badge Pool implemented, that allows FS to go further then the ever have before. This could lead to more competition between the FS for finishing on the top charts.

As for 2 then yes, all fellowships would be able to go further - but this includes those you compete against if you go for the top. But I believe all fellowships going for the top places would just hold back all their badges and place them in the last hour. Some do this to some extent today, but it is harder today as everyone who have hold back badges need to be on to place them. With your suggestion only a single member needs to be on and can just cycle through the pit so I guess all fs going for the top would now do this. I am not sure how this would influence the competition but it would sure change the competition since you have no idea where you are currently placed before the FA is almost over.

I also play in much more relaxed fellowships which sometimes struggle to just finish a single path in all 3 stages. It would of course make it easier to finish if this was implemented (assuming the difficulty wasn't raised at the same time and e.g. requiring more badges since every fs now can do more). But I am not sure if it would be more fun - on the contrary I would fear less involvement since the members are less involved, but I don't know.

I think I would vote no to this part as I think I would find the FAs less fun if this was implemented.

 

[Dominionofgod]

As for 2 then yes, all fellowships would be able to go further - but this includes those you compete against if you go for the top.

It would apply across the board so the change would be equal to all. - Those that have lives or jobs or such that cant log in the last hours of the event. And it sucks that there badges get wasted. They put the time and effort into making them, but they are not able to use them to help there FS, and that just sucks. - That being said.. the limiting factor for top fs getting more points is more directly realted to actually having the badges made. No badges, no points. And players have to make those badges. So no matter what it comes down to players having to make badges which is the essence of the FA.

But I believe all fellowships going for the top places would just hold back all their badges and place them in the last hour. Some do this to some extent today, but it is harder today as everyone who have hold back badges need to be on to place them.

iv honestly never understood this logic for the way the FA is set up. As i said, the limiting factor is badges. Whether i place them slowly over time or all at once at the end.. a FS still has the same number of badges. So they are still going to end with the same amount of points. Its not like the early days of ebay where ppl are trying to snipe auctions at the very end. - If for example, my fs have 10 rounds of pit badges, if we use them slowly, we get 10 rounds worth of points. If we use them all at the end, we still only get 10 rounds worth of points. Its the same either way. - The only potential advantage would be if another fs thought there spot was secure and stopped bothering. Then they might get over taken suddenly. .. But if a 'top fs' competing for a 'top spot' gives up part way through.. then they get what they get.

With your suggestion only a single member needs to be on and can just cycle through the pit so I guess all fs going for the top would now do this. I am not sure how this would influence the competition but it would sure change the competition since you have no idea where you are currently placed before the FA is almost over.

I see it as the score being much more accurate. Because all the badges that the FS made actually can get used. These ppl put the effort into making them, they should be able to be used. - This game has many servers that have players across the globe. And those players are all on different schudels. So i would imagine the number of players that arnt able to be on at the end would be statistically high. I hate to see all there work going to waste.

I also play in much more relaxed fellowships which sometimes struggle to just finish a single path in all 3 stages. It would of course make it easier to finish if this was implemented (assuming the difficulty wasn't raised at the same time and e.g. requiring more badges since every fs now can do more).

Benefits to all!

But I am not sure if it would be more fun - on the contrary I would fear less involvement since the members are less involved, but I don't know.

the only thing 'taken away' from members is the single act of placing the badge itself. But what they gain is the knowledge that all there badges, all there work, will actually count, will actually help the whole fs out even more then before. I think that is massively better.

Every single fa for the last several years, i see ppl, in my fs, in the fourms, in elvenar groups on other site, complaining about all the badges they had that never got used or having to be at work or something and not being able to use there badges, or when they were able to be on, the pit was on a different round form what the badges were they had.... Its so much waste... Id much rather have all our effort count for something.

 

[BrinDarby]

@Dominionofgod ,
If you are trying to help those who can't get on in the last few hours....
Perhaps asking Inno to have the damn FA end on a sat/sun .... Thats
0 coding need'd, and still solves that part of it ....

I'm more concerned with all the badges the Pit won't accept...
those are ALSO lost/wasted badges...

But please, address the part of my previous comment that
your suggestion completely makes impossible.... maybee go
read the whole post/thread before ya do ......

 

[Dominionofgod]

If you are trying to help those who can't get on in the last few hours....
Perhaps asking Inno to have the damn FA end on a sat/sun .... Thats
0 coding need'd, and still solves that part of it ....

No matter when it ends, there will be a large group that cant get on. However, they did used to end it at a different time. But if to much of the player base is all logged on at the very same moment then it causes server issues. And this has happened in the past. Which is why inno moved the ending of the FA to a day and time at which they are at work in order to take care of any problems that might arise. - And im certainly not going to try and push a recommendation that they upgrade there entire server farm for the sake of the Fa... im guessing they would ignore that one.

I'm more concerned with all the badges the Pit won't accept...
those are ALSO lost/wasted badges...

The pit was changed from its last version several FA's ago. The pit now takes all 16 badges in rotating rounds. So it takes ALL badges. The only waste left now is from making to many of one badge/not enough of another, and the badges ppl cant use because they cant be on at the end. The 'fs badge pool' would at least take care of the second category of waste.

But please, address the part of my previous comment that
your suggestion completely makes impossible

another part is ...
I have a FA rethink thread going, where 1 kewl addition was bonus
pts per WP for each person adding a badge... Your badge pool
completely eliminates that even as a possibility...

I didnt address it on purpose. Im not going to cancel out a good idea because it interferes with a random idea that is not apart of the FA system. The point of the suggestions is improvements based on the current system. - Your welcome to make a thread to see about submitting your idea. - But there are a lot of ideas out there from players, i cant create my idea around every single other hypothetical idea.

 

[Dominionofgod]

@Dominionofgod
I still have to vote against you for creation of rank above mage. That is completely unnecessary as there are too many who've been given the power to remove another player as it is.

You can like the over all idea while still dissagreeing with a specific detail or too. (Or one could hate all aspects.)

Keep three things in mind about this tho.
1. Im fully open to a different option about a system for who gets to place the badges. I provided multiple different options to see which players might like best/least. Including an option of 'show me something better'. - Those options i provided were jsut the ones that came to mind for me.

2. the creation of a rank above mage, over all changes nothing about the current ranking system.
It current is Arc - Mage - Ambassador - Fellow. That suggestion for new ranks would make it:
Arch - FA Mage - Mage - Ambassador - FA Fellow - Fellow.
The two new ranks are duplicates of there respective ranks. Only they have the ability to place badges added to them. This gives fs flexibility in how they operate.
Which ties right in to 3. That flexibility. You say you dont like the idea of your fs being all mages (if im reading your comment correctly). Personally, i agree with you. I dont like doing that either. Thats why the FA Fellow is there. For FS like ours we can keep ppl fellows that we want, and be able to have certain ones be FA fellows if we want them to place badges. The over all ability for ranks stays pretty much the same.
At the same time, not everyone does things they way we do. Some Fs like having everyone a mage. So, for those FS, the FA Mage is an option. They can keep everyone a mage, but select the ppl they want to place badges as FA Mages.
Both sides can get what they want wihtout any change to the fs members abilities (other then placing badges.) Every Fs can chose for themselves how they want to set it up. They can go the fellow route OR they can go the Mage route. + They can make only one person place badges, a select few place badges, or everyone place badges.
This method might sound odd, but it provides extreme flexibility for every Fs out there.

I would find the checkmark option acceptable.

That would be a much more simple option for sure, and probably the best option. I just figured that might be harder to code so i added some alternitives. Inno already has the code for ranks. They would just need to copy it and make a few alterations. But yea, check box would be much simpler for the players.

 

[BrinDarby]

Your welcome to make a thread to see about submitting your idea.

I told you I did way before your idea was posted, offered for you to go read.
Since you didn't read that, no way will you expend more effort to go read.

Your suggestion makes FAs even more brain-dead and boring, and does NOT
add anything, but takes away from whats already there...

I think individuals placing their own badges is a core part of the FA.

See its not just me saying this .....

 

[BrinDarby]

The pit was changed from its last version several FA's ago. The pit now takes all 16 badges in rotating rounds.

No it does not .... and once your stuck, all the rest of your badges are wasted.....
I address'd that in my Spire suggestion thread

 

[Dominionofgod]

The pit was changed from its last version several FA's ago. The pit now takes all 16 badges in rotating rounds. So it takes ALL badges.

No it does not ....

Yes... it does. This is a simple fact. They changed it back in november of 2020. It USED to require a total of 9 different badges. NOW it goes through rounds requiring all 16 badges.

 

[SoggyShorts]

iv honestly never understood this logic for the way the FA is set up. As i said, the limiting factor is badges. Whether i place them slowly over time or all at once at the end.. a FS still has the same number of badges. So they are still going to end with the same amount of points. . Its not like the early days of ebay where ppl are trying to snipe auctions at the very end

It actually is a bit like that Ebay sniping at the top.
The last ~15 minutes often decides the top 3. By doing a last-minute dump you can leap over another FS, but if you place all of your badges the moment you make them then the competition knows how many points you will get and can spend a few diamonds to flip the MA, get more residue and get more points to surpass your FS. This is especially true in the most recent format where a FS will often have loads of excess badges of all kinds except residue.

The other thing I must admit is that despite my general dislike of the FA I have had fun in the final minutes when racing another FS. Having chat wizz by with 15 members online posting "Need Hats next", then "res", and waiting for my queue ("statues") all while watching the scores tick higher is the closest this game comes to having an exciting moment.
Moving that to a badge pool where all but 1 FS member becomes just an observer seems like a sad change. (Yes, I know your idea allows for more than 1 badge placer, but I can't imagine that would be smoother in the last 15 minutes than just having 1 person do the clicking)

The main reason I don't think your idea will fly though is $$$.
Other than flipping the MA for more residue, I think inno might make most of their FA money from
"Steve has all of the Statues we need, but he's not online, and I want to dump mine in the next spot so I'll just use diamonds to push past this waypoint in order to move on"
Also, players can't spend $/diamonds when offline so forcing players to log in and check to see if their badges are needed is better for inno than allowing players their own schedules.

 

[CmdSgtMjr]

That was good thinking on your part, but I still believe that in some fellowships it would make for hard feelings if the person or persons did not choose wisely for the group. As far as the devs go, I think both yours and my ideas have little chance of being implemented, no matter how good they are, because one thing I've learned about Inno ... they have to feel they're getting the biggest bang for their programming buck. If something will be controversial, then it has to be really easy to code before they'll consider it. If something is hard to code, then it better be something that the overwhelming majority will love (or that they think they will love.) Sadly, I don't hold out much hope, at least for the near future. Since they've already spent months revamping the FA just a short time ago (with new badges etc), I think they believe they've improved it, and are ready to move on to the next project. I just wish I thought their improvement was an improvement ... I don't. I hope the tourney improvements will be better.

Other online games have this feature. This is a great idea, I suggested this same thing, however my wording wasn't even close to this. I hope it gets implemented and real soon.

 

[Dominionofgod]

The main reason I don't think your idea will fly though is $$$.
Other than flipping the MA for more residue, I think inno might make most of their FA money from
"Steve has all of the Statues we need, but he's not online, and I want to dump mine in the next spot so I'll just use diamonds to push past this waypoint in order to move on"

I guess we all have different ideas of what we find worthy of spending diamonds on. And im sure across the player base it is quite varied.
For me personally, i find that situation the exact opposite of what makes me want to spend diamonds. I can understand the willingness to spend on the competitive front. But if the reason we cant progress is a design flaw (imo), then im just annoyed and more likely to just say screw it.
However, if i was in that same situation of competitiveness, AND the system allowed us to spend all our badges (fs badge pool), then im more inclined to spend a tad for a boost. Because its just that. A boost. Spending for a boost is understandable. Spending to make up for a design flaw that wont let us us what we have... i wont do. - Obviously some ppl are different. But thats my mentality.

Also, players can't spend $/diamonds when offline so forcing players to log in and check to see if their badges are needed is better for inno than allowing players their own schedules.

If a player isnt able to log on to spend there badges as is, then there not logging on to buy diamonds.
Having a fs badge pool isnt going to make ppl WANT to stay logged off. Those that want to log on and can.. will. Those that cant log in.. cant log in, no matter what the motivation.

 

[SoggyShorts]

If a player isnt able to log on to spend there badges as is, then there not logging on to buy diamonds.
.....Those that cant log in.. cant log in, no matter what the motivation.

It's not about those who can't.

Having a fs badge pool isnt going to make ppl WANT to stay logged off. Those that want to log on and can.. will.

Maybe it's just me, but it would absolutely reduce my desire/need to log in during the FA. Why bother logging in if my main motive was to check and see if my FS needs me to place those statues I made this morning? Just let whoever is logged in anyways do it.

 

[Dominionofgod]

It's not about those who can't.

the fa badge pool is percisly about those who cant. If everyone could log on all the time then none of this would matter. But ppl cant always be logged in, much less at the exact time every time.

Maybe it's just me, but it would absolutely reduce my desire/need to log in during the FA. Why bother logging in if my main motive was to check and see if my FS needs me to place those statues I made this morning? Just let whoever is logged in anyways do it.

because you still need to actually make those badges. And now with badges coming from tourney, spire, crafting, MA, barracks, (troops from AW), kp, enchantments, etc etc.. theirs always something finishing soon now. Cant proceed in FA without badges. Cant make badges without being logged on. - Can however lose all those badge if your not logged on at the end.

 

[JessMac]

I would vote no. I think individuals placing their own badges is a core part of the FA.

I agree on this. I have not kept up with this post as much as I wish. As I have my own forum going on on a different matter. Since I haven’t read all posts on this topic I don’t know if this has already been suggested.
What if they did a badge pool. But the way it worked out was compiling the badges that have already been played to the FA. X amount has been placed/x amount remains. BUT it would have to be a total of all three roads on all three maps. Bc the top ranking FS play for speed to get to the pit faster. I’m so very sorry I don’t see why your fellowship is trying to be on at the same time? Half of my fs work at night the other half work during the day. We just have a rule that when we get close to finishing all three roads on a map we slow down for a mage approved amount of time, to make sure that the players that are participating can place a badge and are not pushed out by higher players that have the land to create more badges. Usually we have it figured out by map two who is participating and who is not. So by map three we can go full steam ahead.

also spire and tournaments are all done individually but once applied the results go to to a group total. This same concept still holds withFA.
also count down letters sound like they work better for yall. 79 farmers badges are needed for the roads we are taking. And then every member who is play deducts the amount of that certain badge they are working on. Yes count can still be off. But at least it’s closer to the right number.
Also during FAs we place everyone to Fellow for FA only. That way flags can’t be pulled early and only the appointed people can pull a flag. But off road badges can still be placed.

 

[BrinDarby]

@Dominionofgod ,

(Uggg) as @SoggyShorts said " Its not about those who can't "
What Soggy meant was , his reasoning was was not about those
who can't .... It was about those who won't !!! You seem to have
transposed that to "your idea", not his reasoning against your idea.

Jess has a proposal, so do I, pretty sure both were started before
yours was... but it seems you're against both of those, iono...
You won't comment on mine, as it directly would be impossible
if yours succeeds....

Having ppl place thier own badges, IS a core aspect of FAs...
Soggy is right, in that it could hurt revenue... If it does, are you
personally gonna replace tht lost revenue to Inno ??? ( doubt it )

It really sounds to me like you have " a solution searching for
a problem" ... rather than a solution to an exsisting problem......