Future of the Scrolls of Knowledge and other resources

[Deborah M]

@Mrietha Elvenar Gems of Knowledge for most of the time it was actively updated was getting most, if not all, of the event & chapter information beforehand. That is why I’m thinking Inno may not be happy that the website was taken/copied or whatever by another website.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Elevenar.com has been archived by webarchive.org this many times since this date...Saved 290 times between August 6, 2014 and June 1, 2023. I believe since the starting date is 2014 that means pre-public release. Elvengems has been archived this many times...Saved 64 times between September 2, 2004 and June 5, 2023. Elvenstats has been archived this many times...Saved 58 times between March 19, 2018 and July 23, 2023. Elvenarchitech has been archived this many times...Saved 145 times between June 9, 2016 and July 16, 2023. Idavis has been archived this many times...Saved 11 times between June 19, 2022 and July 21, 2023. The US Forum has been archived this many times...Saved 90 times between April 7, 2016 and July 23, 2023 You can even suggest pages for them to archive, if they don't show up in your search for that page. I just suggested...https://sites.google.com/view/public-druids/evo.

 

[Deborah M]

WOW! That would probably mean that they are archiving some of our personal game related information. I’m not sure I’m ok with that.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Germany has strict privacy laws, the US doesn't, we can always move to Germany. That's why I said earlier that a company's ToS isn't law.

 

[defiantoneks]

just for reference, iDavis has a placeholder for layouts in Ch 21. perhaps he is working on adding more of that sort of content.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

while i don't disagree that their content is theirs, the fact is that the site is inaccessible and hasn't been updated. So if the admins or owners are so invested that they wont share the content somewhere active and maintained, what will it take to get that site functional for everyone?

Or maybe you could ask them if you could join their website and help keep it updated? If you are willing to take the time to pull all that information over to create another site, perhaps it would be more productive to help maintain what is already a great, if not updated site.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

just for reference, iDavis has a placeholder for layouts in Ch 21. perhaps he is working on adding more of that sort of content.

I find that iDavis's site is more difficult to use and understand. Dunno why... but I don't find it as clear and easy to read through as elvengems was.

 

[defiantoneks]

perhaps it would be more productive to help maintain what is already a great, if not updated site.

uh, that's what i said in the post after that

 

[defiantoneks]

I find that iDavis's site is more difficult to use and understand. Dunno why... but I don't find it as clear and easy to read through as elvengems was.

i think he tends to provide the stats and let you figure out how to make it happen. EG has a lot of "do this then this" and "you're going to want to do X before Y".

 

[Smooper]

For this conversation I am thinking along these lines: better to ask forgiveness then ask for permission. There is nothing on Elvengems that is owned by them except for what they write and anyone can just rewrite the tips into a different form. All the images are Elvenar images.

I am not saying I am going to do this (I am not planning to do this at all) but it wouldn't upset me if someone else did it. I think it is basically abandoned and don't see how they can claim it anymore anyways.

Again, not going to copy their stuff, not even click on the webarchive link. I think the stuff is for the game and not for the owners of Elvengems to profit from. I have never created a guide or tool in all the games I have played in my 57 years of life that I wanted to profit from. If I made a guide it was to help people and for the adulation of all the players. Ok, that was a little much.

 

[Lelanya]

For this conversation I am thinking along these lines: better to ask forgiveness then ask for permission. There is nothing on Elvengems that is owned by them except for what they write and anyone can just rewrite the tips into a different form. All the images are Elvenar images.

I am not saying I am going to do this (I am not planning to do this at all) but it wouldn't upset me if someone else did it. I think it is basically abandoned and don't see how they can claim it anymore anyways.

Again, not going to copy their stuff, not even click on the webarchive link. I think the stuff is for the game and not for the owners of Elvengems to profit from. I have never created a guide or tool in all the games I have played in my 57 years of life that I wanted to profit from. If I made a guide it was to help people and for the adulation of all the players. Ok, that was a little much.

Whoa
So the artist that creates the banners and the graphics should just volunteer their time?
So the hosting websites should just donate their space because, after all, it's for a good cause right?

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Whoa
So the artist that creates the banners and the graphics should just volunteer their time?
So the hosting websites should just donate their space because, after all, it's for a good cause right?

Isn't it what Inno does? They volunteered their graphics for Elvengems to use and they've created a game that can be played for free paying for all expenses. And Elvengems was loaded on ads so they even had some cash out of it. The information is just sitting there doing nothing, why not to make some use of it. When the credit is given where it's due, they will even get exposure and recognition.

 

[Smooper]

Whoa
So the artist that creates the banners and the graphics should just volunteer their time?
So the hosting websites should just donate their space because, after all, it's for a good cause right?

Nobody needs those. It's the guide that is important

 

[Deborah M]

Isn't it what Inno does? They volunteered their graphics for Elvengems to use and they've created a game that can be played for free paying for all expenses. And Elvengems was loaded on ads so they even had some cash out of it. The information is just sitting there doing nothing, why not to make some use of it. When the credit is given where it's due, they will even get exposure and recognition.

Actually, Elvenar Gems of Knowledge did not have ads for a long time. They did have a way for contributions if my memory serves me right. Just like Elvenar, eventually they had to have ads too. Even with ads, I remember somebody pointing out that it would be helpful if players would occasionally click on ads. Somehow that would have worked in their favor. I admit I have no idea how that works.

 

[defiantoneks]

obviously what Inno does is NOT all that is desired because we have Gems of Knowledge, Elven Architect, Elven Stats, IDavis, etc etc etc.

Those people put a ton of hard work and resources into developing functional websites. They did it for love of the game, BUT they also need to be able to keep their heads above water. If you don't know how to make a functional site, have no design skills, no writing skills, no time to do it, no cash to host the site and pay the monthly upkeep and subscriptions, and on and on, then saying anything remotely like "they shouldn't be able to make money" or "it's not really theirs" is a load of malarkey.

 

[defiantoneks]

and, Inno may "allow" people to play for free, but they are certainly encouraged to pay for some premiums along the way. as a player it's easy to feel like you "have" to pay when you want to succeed. for these reference sites many if not all have Donate buttons. those buttons get largely ignored by most users. that's why the sites go dead. then everyone who was using it whines because they miss the content.

if you dont put gas in the car, sooner or later your luck is going to run out and you will be standing on the side of the road. saying it's someone else's fault or that you shouldn't have to BUY the gas is silly.

 

[Dew Spinner]

and, Inno may "allow" people to play for free, but they are certainly encouraged to pay for some premiums along the way. as a player it's easy to feel like you "have" to pay when you want to succeed. for these reference sites many if not all have Donate buttons. those buttons get largely ignored by most users. that's why the sites go dead. then everyone who was using it whines because they miss the content.

if you dont put gas in the car, sooner or later your luck is going to run out and you will be standing on the side of the road. saying it's someone else's fault or that you shouldn't have to BUY the gas is silly.

There is no need to miss the content. Whether or not someone likes the idea of an archive site, it exists and can be used.

 

[crackie]

I find that iDavis's site is more difficult to use and understand. Dunno why... but I don't find it as clear and easy to read through as elvengems was.

I don’t think he is a native English speaker, but he still speaks English better than I can speak his native tongue. I do agree the navigation is a little less intuitive to use and there are way too many banners messages to close, but as a beggar, I can’t be a chooser.

Nobody needs those. It's the guide that is important

You wouldn’t believe how long it took me to make a custom image of a clear battlefield with zero obstacles on it to use for setting up the fighting tutorials to explain specific situations. You can’t refresh your way to generating a map with no obstacles to take a screenshot and if you saw the original file of the battleground texture map, you’d be shocked how the battlefield is actually generated. Even the hexagon overlay is strangely not evenly distorted on a plane to easily replicate. And I know my way around a graphics editor very well! I bet everyone who looked at the images never even gave it a second thought to realize, oh yeah, this battlefield has no obstacles and is actually not a screenshot! Somebody took the time to make this stuff from scratch! Hence, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss how much prep work Gems did to put their site together, even if it looks like they only used Inno’s images.

then saying anything remotely like "they shouldn't be able to make money"

I don’t have a problem if they try to make money, but that’s the part that will get you into trouble with copyright though. If you make an informational site and isn’t making a dime off it, it’ll be of questionable value for them to take you to court because you can argue you are covered by fair use and will have a decent case. If you are making money off it and it becomes a commercial venture, then fair use no longer covers your behind and now you can expect to pay up if the copyright owners come for you. Even “donations” as means of accepting money won’t help you then, which is possibly why Elvenstats donations explicitly state they are for college fund for the kids and not for the site owner. Like when Gems had originally asked Inno for permission, would Inno’s answer change if they said it’s a commercial venture versus it’s just an informational site, especially if Inno were to provide them with insider scoop on what’s coming down the pipeline.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I don’t think he is a native English speaker, but he still speaks English better than I can speak his native tongue. I do agree the navigation is a little less intuitive to use and there are way too many banners messages to close, but as a beggar, I can’t be a chooser.

You wouldn’t believe how long it took me to make a custom image of a clear battlefield with zero obstacles on it to use for setting up the fighting tutorials to explain specific situations. You can’t refresh your way to generating a map with no obstacles to take a screenshot and if you saw the original file of the battleground texture map, you’d be shocked how the battlefield is actually generated. Even the hexagon overlay is strangely not evenly distorted on a plane to easily replicate. And I know my way around a graphics editor very well! I bet everyone who looked at the images never even gave it a second thought to realize, oh yeah, this battlefield has no obstacles and is actually not a screenshot! Somebody took the time to make this stuff from scratch! Hence, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss how much prep work Gems did to put their site together, even if it looks like they only used Inno’s images.

I don’t have a problem if they try to make money, but that’s the part that will get you into trouble with copyright though. If you make an informational site and isn’t making a dime off it, it’ll be of questionable value for them to take you to court because you can argue you are covered by fair use and will have a decent case. If you are making money off it and it becomes a commercial venture, then fair use no longer covers your behind and now you can expect to pay up if the copyright owners come for you. Even “donations” as means of accepting money won’t help you then, which is possibly why Elvenstats donations explicitly state they are for college fund for the kids and not for the site owner. Like when Gems had originally asked Inno for permission, would Inno’s answer change if they said it’s a commercial venture versus it’s just an informational site, especially if Inno were to provide them with insider scoop on what’s coming down the pipeline.

I think Gems would have a harder time claiming copyright violation seeing they voluntarily shut down their site. Nobody was looking at the archive site until they couldn't access their site anymore. And it's weird that nobody who has "actual" authority over the site has come on to the forum and said anything. I have only seen someone who has always claimed to be a volunteer say anything about this.

 

[Mrietha]

A copyright is a copyright is a copyright.

Out of print books and articles from old journals do not lose thier copyright.
Depending on how it was authored the copyright lasts from 70 to 98 years after the death of the author.

Websites follow the same law as print material.

I am not an expert on Copyright Law - I looked up what the experts have to say about it.