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    Your Elvenar Team

Generating Better Spire Participation ** 1st Edit**

JessMac

Active Member
A life truism: people will always complain.

Even if Inno were to make everyone who is currently playing the game 100% happy with it, the very next person who joins the game might take issue with something Inno did to make the rest of us happy and start complaining, arguing that it was better the way it was before.

As an alternative, you could simply suggest evening out percentages of prizes that are equally liked. There is a chest in the MA that offers equal opportunity to win 35 KP or 8 x 8hr boosters.
A very valid point. But I’d like to see how my plan plays out. And if said player comes along then they can jump through all the hoops I have to get it changed back :p or changed as they would like! And sorry I am very tired but I don’t see your point in the ma chest other than this chest offers the most amount of time you could win? Which is great but not part of the spire. Which is the only part I’m trying to change. I do appreciate the feedback!
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
I don’t see your point in the ma chest other than this chest offers the most amount of time you could win?
As I said, evening out the percentages. The chest in question is used as an example. It offers a 50% chance to win 35 KP and a 50% chance to win 8 x 8 hr boosters.

So, if you have a number of people saying "I want 2 x 8 hr boosters!" and the same number of people saying "I want 3 x 5 hr boosters!" then you could suggest changing the prizes in the chest from
4
2000 SF 55%
20 Diamonds 30%
Coin Rain 10%
Artifact 5%
to
2 x 8 hr boosters 30%
3 x 5 hr boosters 30%
20 diamonds 25%
Coin Rain 10%
Artifact 5%

This keeps the diamonds from being the highest chance item as well as giving prizes that replace the SF like you're wanting, yes?
 

JessMac

Active Member
As I said, evening out the percentages. The chest in question is used as an example. It offers a 50% chance to win 35 KP and a 50% chance to win 8 x 8 hr boosters.

So, if you have a number of people saying "I want 2 x 8 hr boosters!" and the same number of people saying "I want 3 x 5 hr boosters!" then you could suggest changing the prizes in the chest from

to
2 x 8 hr boosters 30%
3 x 5 hr boosters 30%
20 diamonds 25%
Coin Rain 10%
Artifact 5%

This keeps the diamonds from being the highest chance item as well as giving prizes that replace the SF like you're wanting, yes?
Gotcha gotcha I moved this part to a different thread. Please see
 

JessMac

Active Member
@OIM20 i do like the idea of changing percentages. However I do not believe INNO wants that in spire or they would have implemented that to begin with. JMHO
 

JessMac

Active Member
By that logic, asking them to remove/change the SFs is moot.
You get 100% of what you don’t ask for. Nothing is being removed, only changed. And if it was moot the mod would have never replied to this. Or offered suggestions. Or have told me that this is a pretty common support ticket. She has either hinted that I’m heading in the right direction. Or she’s pulling my chain to keep me posting. As I choose to be positive and will reference back to my first sentence of this post. I will continue. And at the end of the day when I decide to revise and request a poll. And the poll comes out against my wishes. I at least will know that I did everything in my power to implement a change. I also have to offer an idea that the masses will agree with to pass the poll in order for this to forwarded but also something along the lines that INNO would agree to spend the money to make the change or a close enough change. Once it’s forwarded I assume it’s back to being a completely open idea that they can do with as they please. But hopefully keep it close.
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
You get 100% of what you don’t ask for
My point was that if you're going to say that "if Inno wanted it this way they would have already done that", then there's no point at all in even having the "Ideas and Suggestions" forum, tbh. Because if Inno had wanted any of the suggestions, they would have already implemented them. It's a counterproductive position to hold while making a suggestion for a change. So there's no harm in asking for what you want - altering the percentages to fit the prizes you want - if you're wanting to change the prizes in a way that would require the percentages to be altered.

@helya has not given me indication that she's the type of person to simply lead someone on when trying to help them. I don't think she's "pulling your chain".
 

JessMac

Active Member
My point was that if you're going to say that "if Inno wanted it this way they would have already done that", then there's no point at all in even having the "Ideas and Suggestions" forum, tbh. Because if Inno had wanted any of the suggestions, they would have already implemented them. It's a counterproductive position to hold while making a suggestion for a change. So there's no harm in asking for what you want - altering the percentages to fit the prizes you want - if you're wanting to change the prizes in a way that would require the percentages to be altered.

@helya has not given me indication that she's the type of person to simply lead someone on when trying to help them. I don't think she's "pulling your chain".
I don’t believe she is either which is why I chose to say “I choose to be positive”. At the end of the day no matter if she is tagged in a post or not she can see everything I write. So not sure why you felt like drawing attention to that. I was simply making a point that I feel very confident in my plan and a big part of that confidence was her.
As for the part about having ideas and suggestions forum they have it because not everyone thinks alike. And it overall makes players happy knowing that they have even a small chance of making a change. And there is also an even smaller chance that someone will come up with an idea or suggestion they truly have not thought about. I also simply do not want to change just the percentages. I actually hate the 35kp points vs 8-8hrs. Bc I have no interest in winning additional kps when I’m in the middle of a chapter and tech blocked and really want the 64hrs. Am I glad they are even I guess because if they weren’t the TB would be less. But what do I usually wind up with? KP points. The percentages have to be coded someway and I’m sure that code ultimately decides your reward. But at least the percentages help make that ultimate decision. If they were all equal. Then the line of code I’m assuming would juSt make that decision on its own? And how would they show that in a chest? Percentages show the player the probability of their chances. Random codes I would think would be difficult to show in the same way. But again idk. Also if everything were even I believe they would take out all really good prizes and I’d rather have a small chance over no chance.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious one
If you scroll up there are two separate post from Helya where she posted all gate rewards and the mystery box rewards (4 gates in 3rd tier ) I wasn’t 100% if you saw them or not. They say spoiler alert and you click on it and it will expand.
They must have recently changed percentages because her list has the 3rd mystery box as 50% 20% 20%. Not sure if this changes any of your suggestions

Actual question. Are you suggesting the removal of quantities from mystery chest to be added to spire? If so wouldn’t it just be better to leave the quantities as they are and just insert your suggestions? (It is highly possible I’m not following this part 100)

But overall I believe this is in the direction I want to go with it too. Good point on hierarchy of chests.

My suggestions were not meant to change the mystery chests at all, but to only alter the chests in the third tier by removing the spell fragments in the gate chests and replacing with the three items suggested, one item per gate. The percentages of the added items could be adjusted if necessary but were close to the original and thus, I think, acceptable as replacements.

As for the mystery box changing from 30%. 30%,30%,10% (if that's the one to which you refer) to 50%,20%,.20%,10%, that just increases my belief that the changes would work. A 50% chance of getting teleport spells rather than a 30% chance is a very good improvement, in my opinion.

That's my take on it anyway.

AJ
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
I will make one more effort here.
You are poking a sleeping beast with these suggestions. The players who crunch numbers have told you explicitly that in no way, shape, or form, are there too many Spell Fragments given out in the Spire. Furthermore the amount of Fragments given by disenchantment of inventory, was nerfed a while back.

If you ask the developers to change something that isn't broken, and they actually do implement your idea, we will all be punished for what you admit is fueled by a reckless, rage induced moment.

There are no spell fragments in Boss chests, which I do believe was your original premise.

I will end this note on a positive bit of advice. Try to vary the times you wait, and pick up chests. This can actually make a huge difference in achieving success in picking up the rare prize items.

Please leave off this reckless idea.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious one
@Lelanya

Sometimes you aren't trying to fix a problem -- or in doing so you find the problem isn't one but in the process you stumble upon an improvement that is worth the effort.

I agree there are not too many Spell Fragments offered overall. However, the suggestion, as it seems to be developing...doesn't change the amount of spell fragments that can be won. It does, though, address the needs of some players who are earning/getting/have too many spell fragments by improving their chances of getting something else. Thus, those needing spell fragments are not hurt, and those having too many spell fragments are helped. An overall win-win suggestion, don't yo think?

AJ
 

JessMac

Active Member
My suggestions were not meant to change the mystery chests at all, but to only alter the chests in the third tier by removing the spell fragments in the gate chests and replacing with the three items suggested, one item per gate. The percentages of the added items could be adjusted if necessary but were close to the original and thus, I think, acceptable as replacements.

As for the mystery box changing from 30%. 30%,30%,10% (if that's the one to which you refer) to 50%,20%,.20%,10%, that just increases my belief that the changes would work. A 50% chance of getting teleport spells rather than a 30% chance is a very good improvement, in my opinion.

That's my take on it anyway.
@ajqtrz have you seen my discussion post about this as well? It is purely only on ranking your suggestions. I have put a rough draft of my implemented changes over on that post. I’d love it if you checked it and gave me feed back!!!

also thank you for your explanation to lelanya. I might be stealing that for my revised postfor when I want this to go to poll!
 
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CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
What I have seen so far is that your are a dreamer.

You want to get "better" rewards, but you will never get "better" rewards.
You can change something "bad" for something "bad" but they will never give you more.

Opening 100 topics will not change a thing.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
It does, though, address the needs of some players who are earning/getting/have too many spell fragments by improving their chances of getting something else.
It can only improve a players chance of getting something other than spell fragments by reducing a players chance of getting spell fragments. Right?
 
***Updated suggestion (original was removed)

REVISED:
This comment has been repeated by two separate individuals and I agree it would be the best solution. Upping the number of spell fragments offered on the third Tier at the chests in between gates. And removing them from all gate rewards but not changing any percentages of the other rewards on the gate chests.

PROS:
- It will not actually subtract the current amount of spell fragments offered in the spire.
- it would entice players to try and reach the third level to gain the better chest rewards. Knowing that their hard earned resources will go to better chests MIGHT increase spire participation. Which would also increase FS participation.
- INNO gets to keep all their other prizes in other things as they are. No changes to event building quests . No changes to FA. No change that I can see. But would love input.

CONS:
I’m sure recoding anything is never fun


Last week I bribed my way to the top, used up coin rain and windfall and all I got for beating the big dude at the top was a 25% portal profit. On the journey to the top I got about 50k spell frags, I now have 180k. And I craft daily. I did get a few gingerbread artifacts until I built the mansion, then I didn't get any more. In either city. Yes, there needs to be some reason to get to the top.
 

JessMac

Active Member
What I have seen so far is that your are a dreamer.

You want to get "better" rewards, but you will never get "better" rewards.
You can change something "bad" for something "bad" but they will never give you more.

Opening 100 topics will not change a thing.
I really should have started this in discussion and never opened a thread over here. That is my fault and as I’m new to the forum it is a learning curve. I would ideally have been happy with just swapping the spell fragments our with time boosters. But overall most people hated this idea. I probably am a dreamer. But so we’re the Wright brothers at one point in time…. :D
 

JessMac

Active Member
It can only improve a players chance of getting something other than spell fragments by reducing a players chance of getting spell fragments. Right?
So this was mentioned that we are reducing chances of winning spell fragments. But over all I think the possibility stay relatively the same amount wise overall. But I’m also not crunching hard numbers like y’all would like me to do. And I apologize for that. Someone is more than free to do that math if they would like.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
Last week I bribed my way to the top, used up coin rain and windfall and all I got for beating the big dude at the top was a 25% portal profit. On the journey to the top I got about 50k spell frags, I now have 180k. And I craft daily. I did get a few gingerbread artifacts until I built the mansion, then I didn't get any more. In either city. Yes, there needs to be some reason to get to the top.
Not even close,

If you are extremely lucky (or unlucky depending on your vieuw) you there is a theoretical limit of 33.000 spellfragments that can be earned in the spire. and that theoretical not practical.

I also wonder how a portal profit opening ended into a spellfragment .

And there is a very good reason to go to the top, the downside is that reason depends on your fellowship.

It's mostly the fellowship rewards that make the 3rd level interesting or not. not the individual prizes
 
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