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    Your Elvenar Team

Golden Abyss vs. Mountain Halls?

DeletedUser5800

Guest
Does this sound right?

The GA is nearly 3x more square efficient than the MH at pop. while being comparable in other benefits but since you can't build 3 GA's the MH is worth having only when the GA cost to level exceeds 3x the cost of the MH based purely on pop. gain to Kp spent which would be a GA of level 15. Then you should alternate upgrading them until GA is maxed.

Using a random test city between Dwarves and Fairies I compared a Lv 10 of each.
Ignoring the pop. gain because they are both 6% (obviously the GA is better because it's smaller)
I concentrate here on only the Gold vs Production
The Golden Abyss gives 244 sq. worth of gold production and takes 9 sq.
The Mountain Halls gives 40 sq. worth of goods production and takes 24 sq.
If you spent the gold from the GA in the wholsaler you get just under 1 manufactories worth of goods which is comparable to MH production gains.
Mountain Halls
At lv 10 64% Goods Production
4x Lv 16 Planks 298d x 4 = 1,192d so 64% is 762d benifit
762/298 = 2.5 more factories
361 pop req. per x 2.5 = 902 pop. req.
10sq. x 2.5 = 25sq.
4x Lv 16 Silk 618d x 4 = 2,472d so 64% 1,582d benifit
1,582/618 = 2.5 more factories
919 pop req per x 2.5 = 2,297 pop. req.
20sq. x 2.5 = 50sq.
4x Lv 15 Gem 571d x 4 = 2,284d so 64% is 1,461d benifit
1,461/571 = 2.5 more factories
222 pop. req. per x 2.5 = 555 pop. req.
20sq. x 2.5 = 50sq.
3,754 peoples worth of production
Lv 16 Res. 440 pop at 8sq.
(3,754/440)x8 = 68sq.
3x Lv 16 WS that would support that production
45sq.
612 pop. req. x 3 = 1,836
4 more res. 32sq.
Cult req. for 3WS, 13 res. and 2.5 of each manufactory
291 per WS x 3 = 873
155 per res x = 2,015
Plank 152 x 2.5 = 380
Silk 472 x 2.5 = 1,180
Gem 509 x 2.5 = 1,272
Total 5,720
Temple of Holy Fire 2,400 at 25sq.
(5,720/2,400) x 25 = 60sq.
Total Squares for Equivalent Production = 280
Let's compare to max boost since this is non-boost numbers and divide by 7
280/7 = 40

Golden Abyss Gold Production
Lv 10 2%g 3hr
Lv 19 Main Hall 7.7mil.
154,000 x 8 = 1,232,000d
Lv.16 res. 1,680h x 24 = 40,320
1,232,000/40,320 = 30.5
30.5 res. x 8 sq. = 244sq.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Gold is only as valuable as your need, though. If you are regularly producing excess coin and using the excess in the wholesaler, then the GA coin is a different value. I'm using the app a lot, now, and helping all 200+ neighbors more than once a week, which is 5 million coin (each time) vs the roughly 1.2 million I get from the GA each day.
Are you allowing for how many times a day you lose the GA production while sleeping or working (it's 3 hour cap is often inconvenient for me)?
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
Are you allowing for how many times a day you lose the GA production while sleeping or working (it's 3 hour cap is often inconvenient for me)?
Nicely pointed out sir, I mathed the MH at 1 day productions and the GA at 3 hr collections! :eek:
So if 3hr productions are approx. 3x more efficient than 1d then they would actually end back at near equal and were a person to have both, be running 3hr productions and 3hr collections while spending the gold in the wholesaler, the MH would be close to the same as having 3x GAs and it just becomes a matter of if you have the space for 1, 3, or 4 and if you have both you should just always level the cheaper one.
Furthermore if you more often do not run 3hr the MH edges the GA out so you should pick that one over the GA if you were just going to have one of them?
Closer?
 

DeletedUser6653

Guest
This is a wonderful topic and i sadly have nothing useful to add to the math. i will say i lacked appreciation for the MH for quite some time and now consider it better than the abyss because of the manufacturing boost. (pop is a big deal, but i am burning coins once or twice per day at the wholesaler min and am frequently short on T2 goods so boosting that % is worthwhile to me).

I would love for someone to answer this... the OP's math is based on lvl 16 manufactories how would it pan out for higher levels? I mean, never mind the need for coins vs the need for goods, is there a point where the MH would actually be a better deal for pop based on the pop saved by it's level?
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
math is based on lvl 16 manufactories how would it pan out for higher levels?
So I didn't completely redo all that math but I loosely ran it in my own city with a Lv 25 Main Hall and 6 of each tier manufactories if the Mountain Hall was on level 17 which is a 100% boost it would give me just under one free factory of each tier manufactory winning on space without even considering support buildings and against a Lv 17 Golden Abyss, IF you could have 3 of them and IF the wholsaler cost did not increase the Mountain Hall would still win by almost 3 times as square efficient to production. So it definitely only increases it's lead on the GA the bigger your city is and the higher the MH level.

The question that began all this was: Which one is better in the long run? Per square to gain I can now definitely say Mountain Halls wins out on pop. saved vs GA gains per square in the long run. Exactly where that line is I'm not as sure as I thought I was but it seems to be at least as early as you can get Mountain Halls.

is there a point where the MH would actually be a better deal for pop based on the pop saved by it's level?
If you mean better than Residences not including the boost it depends on Working Population but in my city with 114,155 WP a level 3 Mountain Halls is better just for people per square
Lv 25 res. 1820/ 15 squares is 121 per square
Lv 3 Mountain Halls 3425/24 = 142 per square

But so is a Golden Abyss except it would be:
3425/9 = 380 per square

Thus the trying to compare the other aspect.

To truly figure it out I think I have to figure out what one person equals in goods... that is problem for another day.
 

DeletedUser2207

Guest
Mountain Halls also has increased KP cost to upgrade - to get to level 17 would take 7,415 KP while a level 17 abyss would only take 4,640. Going by KP cost, wouldn't a better comparison to level 17 abyss be a level 13 mountain halls at 4,845 KP?

The saved KP could be put into the Blooming Trader Guild, which would increase wholesaler efficiency and also slightly bump up Divine Seed production from having more AW levels
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Getting a perfect comparison is a fool's game, full of variables that will only be valid for a subset of players. By the time a person is aiming for Levels in the mid-high teens for their AWs, they are probably near or at the end of the tech tree and if they enjoy tournaments, have upwards of 300kp a week that they have nothing to spend on besides AWs or giving it away. If they do a lot of negotiating, the extra goods from the MH is a different variable than if they fight a lot and need supplies to build troops.
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Supplies is not the problem, at least in my city.

I favor the Mountain Hall as it slowly boost your production, mine is lvl 14 only but takes quite awhile to lvl. My GA is lvl 3.

And do to my squad size being maxed I go through alot of troops
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
Getting a perfect comparison is a fool's game
I like fool's games... I'm here aren't I! :p
I get that you can't ask something like, 'What is the best AW?', but there are hard number ways to weigh some of them against others (within approximates), sometimes I get bored enough to play with them. It does usually end up at some abstract like, 'What is the goods value of one citizen?' But there is an answer to that in theory, it starts somewhere along deciding a median goods production like a level 15 city with 5 of each tier at 500% boost running 3/3/9/9 cycles and then goes on from there down a rabbit hole of comparisons and yes it ends with a lot of, 'but if you're this' or 'if you do this', all part of the fool's game! To get to X is more valuable than Y unless blah blah blah or flibbertigibbets. o_O
 
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DeletedUser3507

Guest
I bet you can, even though you won't admit it...:rolleyes:
Joking of course, Happy New Year...
 
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