Golden Abyss vs. Mountain Halls?

[DeletedUser5800]

Had never seen it...
...but there is a way to solve this problem, it just requires there being a standard comparative system of value measurement.
X people per Square = Y Goods per Square = Z Gold per Square = 8 Kp = 8 Relics = 1 Rune etc. etc.
Probably per chapter.
So you end up with a chart that clears up the variables of multiple currencies and it can all be converted into VPS (Value Per Square)
This theoretical master chart of currencies would then solve nearly any problem of comparisons.
I don't think it's mythical nor unachievable, though I do indeed doubt my ability to figure it out.

 

[Ashrem]

Had never seen it...
...but there is a way to solve this problem, it just requires there being a standard comparative system of value measurement.
X people per Square = Y Goods per Square = Z Gold per Square = 1 Kp = 8 Relics ect. ect.
Probably per chapter.
So you end up with a chart that clears up the variables of multiple currencies and it can all be converted into VPS (Value Per Square)
This theoretical master chart of currencies would then solve nearly any problem of comparisons.
I don't think it's mythical nor unachievable, though I do indeed doubt my ability to figure it out.

I think it is, in fact, unacheiveable, since there are not going to be large swaths of the player population who agree on the comparative values of those things. I don't even think a given individual player will feel the same about coin vs supplies vs goods on different days.

Consider that we can't even get a consensus on cross tier trading of goods....

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Lord Draconian

I whipped up a little calc/chart for the mountain halls.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hAmCNSeYgz-XI6KgnsmjdlyrXbLamKSr864hvpcbOdw/edit?usp=sharing
Based on end of chapter 11 buildings.
The space that the mountain halls takes up (all 24 squares) is made up for at level 1 if you have 3 of each tier factory.
For each additional level in your Mountain hall, you save another 4 squares.(8 for rune wheel levels)
So now you can compare space vs coins if you like

Although my gut tells me that an increase in the Abyss for more coins will not beat an increase of 4 squares, even though the abyss costs fewer KP to upgrade.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

I whipped up a little calc/chart for the mountain halls.

That is excellent, I was hoping to trick someone into doing something just like that.
Now figure out that master chart of comparative currencies I theorized. LOL

since there are not going to be large swaths of the player population who agree on the comparative values of those things.

That shouldn't actually matter. Any group of people will disagree on the value of a dollar when asked depending on if they have 1 or 1 mil. or want something or don't etc. but it doesn't change the fact that the answer is it's worth a dollar. Same here. There should be a measure of base value that has nothing to do with how any one feels about it.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

A $ worth about 12 cents so its pitiful..

 

[SoggyShorts]

That is excellent, I was hoping to tricking someone into doing something just like that.

Bamboozled again!

 

[Ashrem]

There should be a measure of base value that has nothing to do with how any one feels about it.

While such a thing would be a convenience for the perfectionist, that is not a reason why it should exist, nor evidence that it does.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

nor evidence that it does.

To your point, even the game seems all over the place. For example if I were to say a rune is = 8 kp because you can get each for the same effort, then why does a rune cost 200 diamonds yet 8 kp cost 360?, why does each broken shard represent 15 diamonds except the last one is 65?, why does kp cost start at 40 T1 20 T2 and 10 T3 yet the trader would value them 160, 80, 10? If I want to finish a tech. that needs 32 kp it cost 1440d which is 45 each which is consistent. But to finish a x53 T1 production is 47d whereas to finish a tech that need x53 T1 is just 3 which might indicate a that the 44s and 440g is = to 44d, to finish an upgrade that you do not have the gold for appears to cost 1d for 360g so where does that put the 440g in relation to the 44d vs the 44s.

It's a hard nut to crack for sure. I think the relationship to diamonds is the first key to definite comparative values... but even after that it just gets weirder and that's not touching space per good per race per which one or pop. or lots of things. I think I'll make a project of it and either give up and quit or eventually post it so you can tell me it's wrong.

 

[Ashrem]

I think the relationship to diamonds is the first key to definite comparative values.

Actually, trying to assign consistent values to diamonds is the worst thing you can do, because diamond spending is priced on a curve where the more immediate need is always more expensive (but not consistently so). There is a thread around August of this year where a person had bug reported two superficially identical completions in two worlds (each needed exactly the same KP, and goods to complete) but the diamond completion price was significantly different, because the ratio of KP required to original kp required was different. (Requiring 20/50 KP is more expensive than requiring 20/60)

 

[SoggyShorts]

I find the only way to compare things meaningfully for myself is to find an aspect where one stat blows the other out of the water.(usually space)
Like for the endless excavation: Once you reach level 15 buildings, the EE makes more supplies per square (at level 1) than a workshop, making it a "must have" wonder.

Likewise with the MtHall analysis I linked above, if you have a minimum of 3/3/3 factories, the MtHall pays for itself in space in chapter 11 (pop is a bonus)
That means at level 1 the abyss takes up 9 more squares than the Mthall, but gives 165K coins/3h
From that I can ask myself the question "Would I trade 6,100 coins per hour for a square?" (assuming 8 collections/day)*
And I'll have my answer for which building is better for me.

If I have both buildings, and the question is which to level first, I can compare the 4 squares of goods production I get from a Mthall level vs the 27K coins/3h increase from a GA level.
27.5K/4sq/3h=2.3k coins per square*, which for me makes the MtHall an obvious choice.

Coming up with a one-size-fits-all answer is often impossible, but narrowing down the question can be done in most cases.

Adding in variables like how many collections per day and using the wholesaler(which I never do with coins) would give a more exact picture, but once I've got the data I personally need, I usually stop.

*Note: I make nowhere near 8 collections a day, but that just makes the case for the Mthall stronger, and offsets the fact that the GA requires fewer KP to level.

The final factor that is too hard to account for is playstyle. When I get access to more efficient buildings, it means I can destroy some and maintain the production levels I want while gaining event/guest race space. When I see that I've hit 1m+ of each good type, I'm annoyed because to me that means I'm inefficient.
For others, getting more efficient buildings it just means gaining higher levels of productions, and increasing stockpiles from 1m to 2m makes them happy.
Those 2 styles will have a huge impact on which buildings are "better"

 

[DeletedUser5800]

space

collections/day

That is the other major obstacle I agree, the set value of space and time, which one has to have. I think the average has to be used, say all premium expansion squares divided by total cost give you the diamond value of a square, of course that will change though. Time I think has to be 3/3/9/9.
Like @Ashrem said, it's a fool's errand!
I need to FB friend Stephen Hawking and get him into Elvenar!
I think the truth is that there may indeed be no way to chart comparative values (or it at least would be sliding in multiple ways and huge) but rather an algorithm where you plug in various things and propose a comparison that would also be immense and far beyond my abilities. Hell you might need the first to even program the second. I've proposed a theory way out of my depth. LOL
But I still find it intriguing.

 

[DeletedUser2959]

What I think about when someone says "flibbertigibbet"

And yes, I'm plenty old enough to remember TSoM

Sorry for re-hijacking, it needed to be done

 

[DeletedUser5800]

What I think about

Hey! I have seen that.