Goods Imbalance

[Mykan]

Out of curosity can someone explain to me how the ratio of 4:1 was determined for the trader?

Its this

I think if I remember correctly the developers said they created the 16:4:1 ratio off of how many supplies it cost to make the good. They didn't really think it through as to space needed to produce each tier and trade at them ratios.

When you ignore boost % the cost of coins and supplies mirrors the 16:4:1 ratios. Its been a while since I dug into it but I believe there are likely other balance aspects of the game based on this methodology

Is there any chance that the developers would be willing to re-evaluate how the trader works?

In terms of ratios, no. They have indicated the method is set and if other game aspects are based on this it makes sense. In terms of filtrs or other improvements we can only hope. They have previously not been keen on filters but that was pre-sentient goods so lets hope their towns are there and are having the same issues everyone else is.

 

[Ashrem]

if other game aspects are based on this it makes sense.

That doesn't strike me as being possible. I can't imagine anything being based on the star value of trades. I could see maybe there are things being based on the ratio, but all they have to do is stop using that particular variable for star-values, and add a new variable for it. That wouldn't affect anything else that uses the ratio.

 

[Mykan]

That doesn't strike me as being possible. I can't imagine anything being based on the star value of trades. I could see maybe there are things being based on the ratio, but all they have to do is stop using that particular variable for star-values, and add a new variable for it. That wouldn't affect anything else that uses the ratio.

Not based on the star value, based on the ratio. They can do whatever they want with the star ratio (it use to have 4 stars) but they have stated they won't be changing it from the cost ratio and players are free to use their own basis for comparison when trading (pretty sure it was in a Q&A sometime back). For them it would just come down to simplicity and "if it ain't broke don't fix it". While some players see it as broken, some don't, and any methodology will attract complaints from someone with a different methodology.

Better to spend time fixing the quests, trader, pc visits, mobile AW donations, etc.

 

[Deborah M]

I hate to be a party pooper but I don't see any reasonable way to value the trades other than coin & supplies to produce. My cost per square in culture or anything else is not going to be exactly the same as anybody else's. How would they be supposed to factor in the effects of magic houses vs regular houses, magic factories vs regular factories, large variable value per square of culture, the effect of AW's & AW levels, MM spells, Phoenix,...? Sure I could do the cost accounting analysis for my city but it is not going to be the same as anybody else's IMO.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

I think event buildings also skews the cost of production given how many produce goods and specifically the last events depending on chapter t3 goods. Honestly, I'd like to see some of these produce T1/T2 goods at lower chapter levels vs. supplies.
Just looking at my chapter 6 cities, I have a glut of T3.

 

[Ashrem]

I hate to be a party pooper but I don't see any reasonable way to value the trades other than coin & supplies to produce. My cost per square in culture or anything else is not going to be exactly the same as anybody else's. How would they be supposed to factor in the effects of magic houses vs regular houses, magic factories vs regular factories, large variable value per square of culture, the effect of AW's & AW levels, MM spells, Phoenix,...? Sure I could do the cost accounting analysis for my city but it is not going to be the same as anybody else's IMO.

Except that, by the same token, your magic houses and workshops mean that the cost of those things is not the same as it is for other people.And someone who uses PoP has a different cost of supplies than someone who doesn't. And someone in Chapter 12 has a different cost to make supplies than someone in chapter 6. So if we go by that standard there is no way to compare any cost of any kind. All they can ever do do is take averages .

 

[Ashrem]

I think event buildings also skews the cost of production given how many produce goods and specifically the last events depending on chapter t3 goods. Honestly, I'd like to see some of these produce T1/T2 goods at lower chapter levels vs. supplies.
Just looking at my chapter 6 cities, I have a glut of T3.

Yes. The issue with buildings that provide variable goods is that there is a small window for them to produce T1/T2 (the first three or four chapters) Then a ten chapter window where they produce T3.

 

[Vergazi]

Is it the case then that on the older, higher population servers that the T3 imbalance is even worst than here in Ceravyn, due to the higher ( presumably ) number of large, established cities?

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

Honestly, for the short term, I think we, the players, should look at what we can do to mitigate the over-abundance of T3. For those who do not want to give up the factories for the ranking score, it may be as simple as switching from 3 & 9 hour manufacturing to 2-day manufacturing.
For others it's as simple as swapping a t3 for another t1 or t2 factory.

Issues that are harder to address are the impacts of the Jester's tavern which produces 1.5x amount of gems than other t3 goods, which means that gems have become even more flooded than other t3 and for those boosted in t3 even harder to trade for what you need.
It may all balance out as time goes on, it does not make it less painful with the current state.
I would like to see something like restrictions removed in the trader or being able to purchase at least a tier below current tier goods from the trader. That would give another outlet for divesting of some overabundant goods that are otherwise difficult to trade or use.

 

[Ashrem]

Is it the case then that on the older, higher population servers that the T3 imbalance is even worst than here in Ceravyn, due to the higher ( presumably ) number of large, established cities?

No idea. It's pretty bad on the one where I play. The number of older cities doesn't matter, it's the number that are active.

 

[Deleted User - 1254584]

I hate to be a party pooper but I don't see any reasonable way to value the trades other than coin & supplies to produce. My cost per square in culture or anything else is not going to be exactly the same as anybody else's. How would they be supposed to factor in the effects of magic houses vs regular houses, magic factories vs regular factories, large variable value per square of culture, the effect of AW's & AW levels, MM spells, Phoenix,...? Sure I could do the cost accounting analysis for my city but it is not going to be the same as anybody else's IMO.

I agree that every city's cost analysis is going to be different but I have to agree with Ashrem. My biggest thing is the time it takes and then the flooding of the T3 cross trades at the current ratios. The number of neighbors and even some FS members that are asking for 80K-160K of T1 goods at 5k-10K T3 goods as one trade is out of control in my trader. Not sure if everyone else is seeing those kind of numbers. It sure takes an awful long time to build up goods to those levels for some people. And while I can accept those trades, in some cases it is half or more of what I have. As a larger city in my FS I try to help out the smaller cities with their trades so they can continue to grow but this goods imbalance is starting to make things extremely difficult. Especially when I myself have entirely too much T3, to take on more while severely diminishing my T1 and T2 at a rate that can't be kept up with in terms of replacement without doing the same cross trading doesn't make sense to me. So in my opinion the time factor seems more important. In my FS we've been discussing adding rules regarding T3 cross trades now, even if just temporary to help curb the issue even if just within the FS.

 

[Deleted User - 1254584]

Honestly, for the short term, I think we, the players, should look at what we can do to mitigate the over-abundance of T3. For those who do not want to give up the factories for the ranking score, it may be as simple as switching from 3 & 9 hour manufacturing to 2-day manufacturing.
For others it's as simple as swapping a t3 for another t1 or t2 factory.

I think alot of players are doing this or at least starting to do this. I'm almost out of the Amuni Chapter and have completely shut down my T3 manu's at this point. I have approx 800K-1M of each T3 that I just can't seem to give away comparied to 100K-300K of each T1-T2 goods. I'm a bit relucant to sell my last 2 T3 manu's at the moment for fear that the market might change again as it seems like it wasn't very long ago that I was just keeping up with my T3 productions between quests and trading. So now they just sit there dormant. Hopefully after I start the Constructs chapter I might be able to find some more room to add in some more T1 and T2 factories.

 

[Vergazi]

I have approx 800K-1M of each T3 that I just can't seem to give away

Hell, I'd take them if you could give T3 away and use all I could get. Seems like lately I am running out of T3 as often as T2 and I have 4 T3 Manus going full time. Of course doing all these encounters that the event sequential quests require during Tournaments might have something to do with it? Just another non sequitur - Already in Chapter 6 the scout times make me want to dent the wall repeatedly with my cranium.

 

[DeletedUser24458]

I know I am resurrecting this post from several months back but I am now seeing this happen a lot in my region. Players who never posted T3:T2 are all the sudden doing so. This is the only common denominator: The players have moved out of orcs into Woodelves. Nothing else mentioned here as possible problems is consistent among 5-6 of them. So to me that is an Inno issue. Too many T3 goods and the demand of T2 increased perhaps.

Edit: Since Woodelves has been around a while, I think I will edit that it probably is combination of Inno's problem and players. Inno has given the set buildings but players may want to rush the chapter faster than previous players. All I know is the common denominator among the 5-6 that just started doing these trades is moving from orcs to woodelves.

My issue with my region of the world is not that these trades are being offered but that we have a famine in crystal. Huge demand and near 0 supply. My fellowship is young too with the AM just starting chp7 and myself just starting chp6. The rest are chp5 and below, the crystal producers are especially low.

 

[Mykan]

All I know is the common denominator among the 5-6 that just started doing these trades is moving from orcs to woodelves.

The guest race chapters are heavier on different tier goods, mainly due to their production by the guest race. From memory orcs use T3 goods and woodleves T1. If the players haven't realigned then of course they will have more T3. The bigger issue is players don't like to delete things or realign strategy, they like lots of points that come with T3 goods and there is a greater (in-game) tolerance to cross-tier trades. None of those things have to do with inno, they can all be corrected by players if they chose to do so.

Inno was wanting to see the trader used, which it is a lot now, would be nice if they added a cross-tier filter just to make it easier to find the goods one wants.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Inno was wanting to see the trader used, which it is a lot now, would be nice if they added a cross-tier filter just to make it easier to find the goods one wants.

I have gotten sooooooooo sick of only seeing cross-tier sentient goods trades, that I wish Inno would completely take away the ability to make those. Someone wants sentient goods? Then they should have to trade same-tier to get them. Especially with chapter 15 now, it is time to stop this garbage.

 

[DeletedUser24458]

The guest race chapters are heavier on different tier goods, mainly due to their production by the guest race. From memory orcs use T3 goods and woodleves T1. If the players haven't realigned then of course they will have more T3. The bigger issue is players don't like to delete things or realign strategy, they like lots of points that come with T3 goods and there is a greater (in-game) tolerance to cross-tier trades. None of those things have to do with inno, they can all be corrected by players if they chose to do so.

Inno was wanting to see the trader used, which it is a lot now, would be nice if they added a cross-tier filter just to make it easier to find the goods one wants.

That’s interesting because those players aren’t asking for tier 1 goods at all but tier 2. Nevertheless, I agree it is most likely an increase of demand that they haven’t changed strategy for which is why I edited my response. Woodelves has been around for a while so afaik the goods demand hasn’t changed.

I changed my strategy in chp5 in prep for the guest races and it was hard to see my points plummet. It’s also hard to sell a building you know you put a lot into upgrading. Growing pains. I just thought I would share what I was seeing: cross tier trades by those who moved out of orcs to woodelves. It’s the only commonality between them.