Goods Imbalance

[NightshadeCS]

If Inno is too invested or too stubborn to change the 16:4:1 2 star ratio couldn't they fix the glut on the demand side. Change the "price" of catering, negotiating, upgrades and research in goods so that it reflects a lesser value of T3 goods. Would that work?

The problem with this is that it unfairly penalizes players who don't have the Jester's Tavern (or whatever else they may have that produces massive amounts of T3).

Those that have the nearly-free T3 producers DO need to reduce their T3 factories to balance themselves. The unfairness of the trader, particularly the rating of 2 and 3 star values, is what is not representative of the true value of goods.

 

[Vergazi]

Isn't the economic issues something that Inno could work out on Beta? or The stupid part of my brain says that Inno needs to set up a server just to tinker with the dynamics of a screwed up economy in order to solve the problems for the long term. Yes, I realize this is a extreme idea, but I'm a fan of spitballs.==========~~phwooot!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o

 

[Pheryll]

Isn't the economic issues something that Inno could work out on Beta?

No need to do something special on Beta. Just more T1 and T2 sets would be all that is needed. We already have had the Harvest Temple Set from last year, we could get plenty of others. In fact the spire introduces a sentient set which decays down to T1.

 

[DeletedUser19651]

There is a sink for all those extra tier 3 goods... buying KP using their boosted tier 3 goods..

I have encouraged my FS to instead of clogging up the trader with a bunch of crosstier trades that will linger on for a week and never get taken to instead use their most of their boosted tier 3 goods to buy KP and then just use the rest of it for in-game use or trading for other tier 3 goods that they need in-game.

Some people have a hard time accepting this an idea though even though they complain that their tier 3 goods are "worthless" and even though their crosstier trades aren't getting taken so it just builds up, some people just can't get behind buying KP even though if they suddenly needed to do that for another in-game reason they can still use cash, tier 1 and tier 2 goods if the situation became totally dire.

Yeah, I realize "at some point" the tier 3 costs become totally ridiculous, but it costs me 10k t3 per KP purchase and I still have never found myself short on it and that is after six months of buying KP this way. I am not too worried about hitting 100k t3 per purchase anytime soon.

If everyone who had excess KP did this, the economy would straighten itself out. It might even make cornercase crosstier trades worthwhile again, but that is probably why people won't do this. I wish they would though unless Inno decides to fix it another way.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

Yeah, I realize "at some point" the tier 3 costs become totally ridiculous, but it costs me 10k t3 per KP purchase and I still have never found myself short on it and that is after six months of buying KP this way. I am not too worried about hitting 100k t3 per purchase anytime soon.
.

Phew! Talk about the haves and have-nots! My KP currently costs 210 Elixir. And I thought that was steep!

 

[DeletedUser20951]

but of people trying to take advantage of others in their trading style on a large scale? (I try never to underestimate the level and extent of human greed, especially in myself.) If that is so, then they will eventually figure out that it is not working as well as it did before and stop, or their trades will stay there forever.

Assuming the worst of people is my default initial thought in nearly every situation (I was raised this way), and I have to work to see a less judgmental side, so this frequently pops up in my head. My incessant whining for a cross-tier filter would make all of these negative suppositions largely disappear from my brain along with the cross-tier trades. I want this. I hate being consistently annoyed by something that could be easily made less aggravating.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

Assuming the worst of people is my default initial thought in nearly every situation (I was raised this way), and I have to work to see a less judgmental side, so this frequently pops up in my head. My incessant whining for a cross-tier filter would make all of these negative suppositions largely disappear from my brain along with the cross-tier trades. I want this. I hate being consistently annoyed by something that could be easily made less aggravating.

Not to quibble , but most of us don't mind all cross-tier trades. We only mind those that don't conform to our valuation system. Admittedly that's the vast majority but not all. So we what we want is a filter for anything less favorable than (insert your particular favored ratio here) probably impractical, I fear.
And on the subject of filters, why does the PC version have a filter for FS trades but the mobile app only has a filter for fee-charging trades?

 

[DeletedUser20951]

So we what we want is a filter for anything less favorable than (insert your particular favored ratio here) probably impractical, I fear.

I support the addition of both types of filters, but want the quickest, simplest implemented first. It could be unchecked or checked by those who want to accept cross-tier.

And on the subject of filters, why does the PC version have a filter for FS trades but the mobile app only has a filter for fee-charging trades?

Because Inno wanted to release the version as soon as possible in order to reach the widest audience, no matter how flawed the version was and continues to be as they struggle to get it up to speed. With how common it is now for companies to put out broken software and then fix it (or not) with the aid of, often unwitting, unpaid testers (the consumers), a business practice that has my undying hatred, I'm not surprised in the least.

 

[Deborah M]

They're not volunteers, they're doing a job, and they get paid as long as people like their work. Finding a balance between the demands of players and a vision of the game which will keep people buying is why they get our money.

Exactly. One of my points is that by overpowering some free event buildings it is one more way to negate any reason to spend. I feel like I am living proof of that. That would be even more so if I had kept my winter set. I really don’t see any advantage gained from spending anymore. Seems to me goods are going to be messed up for the foreseeable future so the foundation a lot of us built our cities on has shifted under us

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Exactly. One of my points is that by overpowering some free event buildings it is one more way to negate any reason to spend. I feel like I am living proof of that. That would be even more so if I had kept my winter set. I really don’t see any advantage gained from spending anymore. Seems to me goods are going to be messed up for the foreseeable future so the foundation a lot of us built our cities on has shifted under us

Well there's also a lot of new ways to spend. Buying the Outpost event buildings to boost your token collection. Spending diamonds to get new crafting recipes. Spending diamonds on badge packs for FSAs.

I still think the value of spending is there. In the first instance, you can be getting more of these awesome event buildings. I think the challenge is that city space is ultimately capped, certain buildings (mainly wonders) won't get replaced, and then the buildings you could replace either have sentimental value or aren't obvious for replacement.

Remember that you're also in a unique position compared to most players. It feels like you don't have much to spend on because you've already bought nearly all the good stuff. New players and even some veteran players won't be in that boat.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am not remembering everything posted in this thread so far, so hopefully this is not a repeat, but anyway, I realized last night there is something else contributing to the glut of tier 3 goods right now. I was collecting from my wishing wells and watching all the tier 3 goods popping up from them at 1900 per collection and it made me wonder how many of these people throwing so much tier 3 goods into the trader are also players with wishing well farms? With the ability to get them as daily prizes in the last event, and with them coming up again as a daily prize in this event, that is potential for a lot of tier 3 goods, twice a day, for some players. Sure, they do eventually expire, but that is still a lot of collections over 100 days that could be tier 3 goods.

 

[ajqtrz]

Supply side or demand side, the problem is they have to intervene and that costs them money -- or let the thing continue to get out of whack from time to time.

AJ

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I am not remembering everything posted in this thread so far, so hopefully this is not a repeat, but anyway, I realized last night there is something else contributing to the glut of tier 3 goods right now. I was collecting from my wishing wells and watching all the tier 3 goods popping up from them at 1900 per collection and it made me wonder how many of these people throwing so much tier 3 goods into the trader are also players with wishing well farms? With the ability to get them as daily prizes in the last event, and with them coming up again as a daily prize in this event, that is potential for a lot of tier 3 goods, twice a day, for some players. Sure, they do eventually expire, but that is still a lot of collections over 100 days that could be tier 3 goods.

I think you might be overestimating the number of large WW farms out there From personal experience, 4x WW running non-stop are non material from the T3 perspective (WWs are also commonly several chapters behind as it doesn't matter for diamonds production).

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I think you might be overestimating the number of WW farms out there From personal experience, 4x WW running non-stop are non material from the T3 perspective (WWs are also commonly several chapters behind as it doesn't matter for diamonds production).

Considering I have seen posts by people who put out 10, 15, or even 20 or more wells at one time, don't underestimate some peoples' greed.

 

[Pheryll]

Considering I have seen posts by people who put out 10, 15, or even 20 or more wells at one time, don't underestimate some peoples' greed.

I have over 30 going right now...

 

[Ashrem]

I don't have the patience to find it, but soggy posted a picture of a farm with close to 100 wishing wells. The entire gurest race space the moment they finished the last chapter.

 

[Ashrem]

I have been ready this from time to time since I started playing again almost 2 weeks ago. But I simply fail to see why the Devs should intervene. It seems pretty clear that the solution is a partial rebuild from tier 3 to 1 and 2 and be done. Why are players holding on to this un-sustainable gameplay? We need a psych not a dev to help

Have you ever studied feudalism or monopolies?

So all of the people who don't have access to large amounts of free T3 productions should just work harder to produce T1 and T2 and trade up, accepting whatever price the free producers settle on, because the people who are producing large amounts of free T3 are special, and those who have to run T3 factories can just be run out of the market since they clearly don't belong there.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Considering I have seen posts by people who put out 10, 15, or even 20 or more wells at one time, don't underestimate some peoples' greed.

I don't question that there are several large WW farms out there. What I have doubts on is that these cities represent any significant proportion of the server population. When you have tens of thousands of players on a server, a few dozen cities even with 20-30 WWs won't move the needle. If I have to speculate, the average Elvenar player would rather pay for the same amount of diamonds that they can get via massive WW farm. The extreme cases that we do indeed see are just that - extreme cases.

 

[Pheryll]

I don't have the patience to find it, but soggy posted a picture of a farm with close to 100 wishing wells. The entire gurest race space the moment they finished the last chapter.

The construct guest race space only accounts for no more than half of those wishing wells (taking road space into consideration). Sounds like that person can afford to run two guest races at once.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

accepting whatever price the free producers settle on

This is not how price discovery works. You need both buyers and sellers in order to get an equilibrium price. And you're contradicting yourself - if the T3 prices are going to zero, it is not exactly that "free" producers benefit from cornering the market with exorbitant prices. They need an outlet to offload their excess T3, otherwise it is wasted.

And yes, T3 set producers are special - their T3 production is more efficient, and yes, T3 production via other means can (in theory) vanish. This happens in the real world all the time - marginal efficiency producers are squeezed out of the market. It does not, however, means that inefficient T3 producers cannot play the game, or are even hurt by that. The beauty of trade is that all you need is comparative advantage in order for both parties to benefit. You don't need absolute advantages.

This means that in theory T3 set producers will only produce T3s (they have a comparative advantage there), and all others will produce T1/T2 (they have comparative advantage there), and both camps would trade to the mutual benefit.

This is not particularly different from boosted goods situation within the same tier. You can produce all the goods you need by yourself. Some cities - especially early ones, but there are some later ones as well - do just that. It would just happen to be very inefficient.

If you're boosted in marble, and your neighbor is boosted in steel you may complain that his steel production is up to 8 times (!) more efficient that yours, and it is true. You may complain about this inequality. But the natural consequence of this "inequality" is that efficient cities just don't build non-boost goods - they build their boosts, and trade for rest. It is entirely possible to have this across tiers as well - some people can specialize in T3, others in T1/T2.

As I said, no absolute advantage is required, only comparative one.