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    Your Elvenar Team

Goods Imbalance

DeletedUser17455

Guest
Oops! I've adjusted my numbers to reflect that your Fountain is in Chapter 12.

The infinite supply of mana huts comment doesn't make sense. You could have acquired 4 mana huts in the Solstice event if you had wanted. You could still acquire Black Lotuses which would have much the same effect. There doesn't need to be an infinite supply of them for my argument to make sense, there needs to be 4 mana huts available and at the moment there is.

You: since my jester's tavern produces 14,000 mana and I am happy with that, the rest of its production is free.
Me: but you could replace the jester's cap with 2 mana huts and you would have freed up 8 spaces, so that production is not free.

Then I went on to say "but it is free, today actually, because those 8 tiles are replacing manufactories, which are huge." Then I transitioned into my argument that, "at some point, if the value of T3 goods continues to drop, those 8 tiles will not be as efficient as they would be if they were 8 tiles of T2 manufactories trading up for T3 goods."

I'm sorry that I misrepresented your Fountain, I've corrected the mistake. When I looked up the set buildings on elvenarchitect I didn't notice that one of them had been upgraded. I checked your math, the numbers didn't come out right. You pointed out the missing variable, not they do.

I'm out! This thread is getting stressful. It's pretty clear that a lot of people don't agree with you, people who are just as level headed an just as experienced as you. It might be time to "agree to disagree".
 

DeletedUser20951

Guest
MinMax Gamer said:
So why is this not advisable?
Click to expand...
I thought I made it clear with my asterisk that my tongue was in my cheek with the "supreme" comment, but you seem to have ignored that. In the eyes of many a player, less clicking is worth more than a slight increase in goods, and people shouldn't have to throw up and take clicky care of several more factories to balance out the third tier overabundance for others. Your claim of equality in this hypothetical situation is false; the edge would still significantly remain with those who possess the event set, and instead of having Inno correct the issue, the digital sweat of the unfortunate would be tasked to do so.

RUIN AND DAMNATION, I keep forgetting to put in the main point governing my opinion. I'm sure there are more than a few that are A-okay with the above happening, but Elvenar is not supposed to be a PvP game and this would add just such an element, only with a deceptively peaceful form of one-sided competitive trading.
 
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Deborah M

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I'm not seeing anything urgent with T3 now that I'm paying more attention to it. I posted T3 trades. They all got taken. No problem :) I do see a glut of cross-tier trades but I'm not attributing it to some crisis. What I saw was more mid to upper level players setting up cross tier trades for whatever they have boosted. Sadly, as more players do this more players think it is OK or a good idea. Remember that a lot of top players will not sell off factories because of the loss of ranking. Plus the last ones to go are T3 because they have the highest ranking points. Using myself as an example, I have always tried to keep 2-3 M of each good. That makes enough available for if I want to go for say a 5K tournament score. When I was running 10 of each factory, that and more was pretty easy. Now think about those with 10-12 of each and how many million build up over time, especially if they are much better than me at battling. What I think I am looking at in my trader is mostly players using cross-tier trades to balance out their inventory. I did check a couple to see their ranking. I've always posted trades or looked for offers to balance out my inventory but I only post or collect same tier trades.
 
Ashrem

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Things are rarely urgent until the moment when urgency becomes a problem. There's no urgency to fix an issue with network switch-ports incorrectly identified as to which room they are in as a result of renovations after they were installed (or just missing an indicator altogether) at my work*.

The game isn't going to collapse under the weight of excess T3. What is happening is that it adds a tiny straw to the frustration some players feel.

* I hope I'm not here when someone who called 911 and couldn't talk would have been saved if the emergency services hadn't had trouble finding the right door first.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
Deborah M said:
I'm not seeing anything urgent with T3 now that I'm paying more attention to it. I posted T3 trades. They all got taken. No problem :) I do see a glut of cross-tier trades but I'm not attributing it to some crisis. What I saw was more mid to upper level players setting up cross tier trades for whatever they have boosted. Sadly, as more players do this more players think it is OK or a good idea. Remember that a lot of top players will not sell off factories because of the loss of ranking. Plus the last ones to go are T3 because they have the highest ranking points. Using myself as an example, I have always tried to keep 2-3 M of each good. That makes enough available for if I want to go for say a 5K tournament score. When I was running 10 of each factory, that and more was pretty easy. Now think about those with 10-12 of each and how many million build up over time, especially if they are much better than me at battling. What I think I am looking at in my trader is mostly players using cross-tier trades to balance out their inventory. I did check a couple to see their ranking. I've always posted trades or looked for offers to balance out my inventory but I only post or collect same tier trades.
Click to expand...
I currently have about 450K T1, 100K T2 and 600K T3. That basic situation has been in force for some weeks now. I need more T2 and less T3 proportionally. I've had CT trades offering T3 for T2 at 1:1.5 for a week and they have not been taken. Yes I know I can build more T2 manus and I'm doing that but trading is supposed to be a short-term solution to an immediate problem. Building factories is long-term. I want to balance out my inventories because I'm looking ahead at my needs compared to what I have. If there's something wrong with CT trades why are they allowed? I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them. The problem is the lack of a filter that reduces 22 pages of offers to ones that I consider to be fair.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
Ashrem said:
There are actually several threads about the pros, cons, and best way to handle cross tier trades. I'm no stickler, but this thread is about whether there is an imbalance of goods in the game (which happens to manifest most visibly in cross tier trades) that deserves attention from the developers.
Click to expand...
I see them as inextricably intertwined. And I'm following them both. As are you.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
Ashrem said:
I don't know why. While an overall supply problem in the economy may be responsible for effects on the trader, a problem in the trader will not affect the overall supply of goods in the economy
Click to expand...
Hmmm. I think we're saying the same thing. There's a problem with the trader (see above). Which can be fixed by filters...and/or...?
 
Ashrem

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I'm saying there's a problem with goods balance that is making a perceived issue with the trader worse. Fixing goods balance still won't fix the trader, though the problem will go back to being less noticeable.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
Ashrem said:
I'm saying there's a problem with goods balance that is making a perceived issue with the trader worse. Fixing goods balance still won't fix the trader, though the problem will go back to being less noticeable.
Click to expand...
I notice you're not specifying what needs to be done to fix the trader.
 

DeletedUser5521

Guest
Count Mein said:
If there's something wrong with CT trades why are they allowed? I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them.
Click to expand...
I agree. I don't find anything inherently wrong with cross-tier trades themselves, either. It's the values/ratios to each other that the trader considers fair that I think needs to be addressed. With what seems to be an abundance of T3 in the game and on the market (for whatever reason), their value should no longer be 4x that of T2, and definitely nowhere close to 16x that of T1. Many of us never thought these values/ratios were accurate, and they become more and more...well...absurd...as the game progresses :oops::eek::confused:
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
The thing is it is the players who determine the supply based on factories type and sets, etc. Just like the "issues" with cross-tier trades you are never going to solve the "over-supply" because it is people who need to change and they either (a) don't see it as an issue (awareness) or (b) Don't care / don't want to change.

People always find "short-cuts" and paths of least resistance. There is obviously plenty of people about who feel making/collecting lots of T3 goods and trading down is the best/easiest path for them. Fixing the trader won't solve this issue but it lets more people ignore it. Those who are creating the over-supply are the only ones who can solve it, but it is up to the individual.
 

DeletedUser20951

Guest
My most concerning anecdotal observation to date has been the activity I have recently witnessed in my Trader with my other city, which resides close to many of the top players in that realm. For the first several months, I had not seen them place any cross-tier trades, but now, although it is not very frequent, I come across their offers of third for second tier goods and I am disquieted by the implications.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
Bruticus said:
Waiting to see if something happens is not helping, short-term solutions are not sustainable and only add to the problem.
What Mykan said:
Click to expand...
I have previously agreed that players need to address the goods imbalance by changing their production. I also agree that the existence of set-pieces like Jester's Tavern is exacerbating the problem and should be noted by the developers. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with CT trades. The game is obviously designed to allow CT trades so the only issue is the cluttering up of the trader with "unfair" CT trades and the potential for accidentally clicking on a trade that is unfair (and who hasn't done that?)
I don't see too many complaining about upward CT trades (and yes, Nonchalant Antipathy, I know you use CT as shorthand for only downward CT trades). Personally I snap up (the very few) upward CT trades with glee and if it's an FS member offering it I tell them they are cheating themselves. The point is the ability to make CT trades is needed. Particularly by newbies. My last AM left because the membership rebelled against her banning them. So the only issue is the star-rating doesn't help us to quickly see which are fair and which are not.
My practice is to filter to my FS trades (usually less than 5 pages) and give them due consideration. I try to take all trades from small players and fair ones from others. Then I maybe once a week look at all trades (maybe 22 pages) and see if there are any bargains out there. After doing my daily tourneys I try to balance my inventory. I do this as much as possible in-tier but that doesn't help me with the T2 shortage and T3 glut. I place large CT trades at 1:1.5 (may have to sweeten that :() to fish for these goods outside the FS.
In short I disagree that short-term solutions add to the problem. Short term solutions are solutions (hence the name).:)
 
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